if the kings and sutter go separate ways I would rather see a new voice in the room then the promotion of an assistant coach. Not sure whom though
GDT: Offseason GDT II
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if the kings and sutter go separate ways I would rather see a new voice in the room then the promotion of an assistant coach. Not sure whom though
AlphaBravo
Registered User
It seems like Stevens will likely be the head coach if Sutter decides not to sign with the Kings. Otherwise, Lombardi would not let Sutter simply wait to see who he signs in the summer before accepting the offer. By that time, the good coaching candidates will have already signed with other teams.
Kingspiracy
Registered User
- Nov 13, 2006
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I like that it's tough for the kids to make the roster, make them earn the spot and prove that they are good enough, slow cooking in the ahl is good for them.
Sutter has given plenty of the kids chances, but none have forced him into playing them.
fsanford
Registered User
- Jul 4, 2009
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And guys like Scuderi, get to play because of time served? Pretty hypocritical if you ask me.
A beer league team could have beaten several of our D core down the ice.
Kingspiracy
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- Nov 13, 2006
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Scuderi wasn't good enough, but were the kids any better? If they get spanked in the playoffs it may mess them up. At least he was cheap to acquire. Sure time served plays into it too, experience is obviously a big factor.
Sad to think our D was Doughty, Muzzin, McNabb, Scuderi, Schenn and McBain in the playoffs.
That is pretty awful.
Even when Greene and Martinez come back, with contracts and waiver stuff, this is how it will look.
Doughty-McNabb
Martinez-Muzzin
Greene-Scuderi
Forbort
Kings can't do much except bury Scuderi in the minors which opens the door for a number 6 guy to play with Greene or make Forbort an everyday player. Or Gravel makes it as the number 6 guy and Forbort sits.
That is pretty awful.
Even when Greene and Martinez come back, with contracts and waiver stuff, this is how it will look.
Doughty-McNabb
Martinez-Muzzin
Greene-Scuderi
Forbort
Kings can't do much except bury Scuderi in the minors which opens the door for a number 6 guy to play with Greene or make Forbort an everyday player. Or Gravel makes it as the number 6 guy and Forbort sits.
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tsanuri
Registered User
And the question becomes would Stevens be much if any different than Sutter?
I don't think he would so might as well hope Sutter stays on.
Better the devil you know.
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
As long as Sutter is our coach King will never get 4th line mins. Simply not happening
The Tikkanen
Pest
I firmly believe Lombardi wants to somehow acquire a legit #2 dman to pair with Doughty similar to Keith and Seabrook. Martinez and Muzzin as your #2 pair most teams would be envious of that depth and you can mix and match Greene, McNabb and Scuderi for your last pair assuming one dman isn't moved which isn't a good assumption.
Ziggy Stardust
Master Debater
I feel so indifferent about this Kings team, more so than seasons past, and part of that might have to do with the leadership on the team and how stale this team has appeared to look since 2014.
I sat and watched some games from the 2014 playoff run and it reminded me of how this team won't be able to match that level again, not with the current roster they have on paper.
Coaches have a shelf life, they all do. Maybe it is time to move on from Sutter. I like what he brought to this team but this past season led me to question if he even cares anymore. The inability to adapt and make changes against his opponent in the first round just left such a sour taste in my mouth, as if the team had accepted its fate and knew that they wouldn't be able defeat their opponents, so they succumbed to their poor choices.
There certainly are remnants here of a team that is capable of advancing far in the playoffs, but I don't think they have enough depth to last long. They don't have any depth up front, on the blueline or in the crease.
It might take a few years for this team to bounce back. I've brought this point up before, but think about how many "dominant" teams in the past were only able to win a couple of Cups before they took a plunge. The Penguins '90 and '91 won back-to-back Cups and that was it for them until they won their 3rd Cup in 2009. The Avalanche were stacked with star players and won their two Cups in '96 and '01 and that was it for them. The Devils ended up winning three Cups in a span of 9 seasons ('95, '00 and '03).
The two Cup victories from this team might be it for quite some time with this current group. I'm pleased to have finally seen them win a Stanley Cup, let alone two, but I'm not living in the past and neither should anyone else in the organization. They need to thrive to bounce back and Lombardi has to make many difficult decisions in order for this team to take a step ahead, or else they're going to fall behind just as they did in 2015 and 2016.
I sat and watched some games from the 2014 playoff run and it reminded me of how this team won't be able to match that level again, not with the current roster they have on paper.
Coaches have a shelf life, they all do. Maybe it is time to move on from Sutter. I like what he brought to this team but this past season led me to question if he even cares anymore. The inability to adapt and make changes against his opponent in the first round just left such a sour taste in my mouth, as if the team had accepted its fate and knew that they wouldn't be able defeat their opponents, so they succumbed to their poor choices.
There certainly are remnants here of a team that is capable of advancing far in the playoffs, but I don't think they have enough depth to last long. They don't have any depth up front, on the blueline or in the crease.
It might take a few years for this team to bounce back. I've brought this point up before, but think about how many "dominant" teams in the past were only able to win a couple of Cups before they took a plunge. The Penguins '90 and '91 won back-to-back Cups and that was it for them until they won their 3rd Cup in 2009. The Avalanche were stacked with star players and won their two Cups in '96 and '01 and that was it for them. The Devils ended up winning three Cups in a span of 9 seasons ('95, '00 and '03).
The two Cup victories from this team might be it for quite some time with this current group. I'm pleased to have finally seen them win a Stanley Cup, let alone two, but I'm not living in the past and neither should anyone else in the organization. They need to thrive to bounce back and Lombardi has to make many difficult decisions in order for this team to take a step ahead, or else they're going to fall behind just as they did in 2015 and 2016.
disagree, he got demoted for some games this year..However whenever a shakeup is needed I hate that he all of a sudden is paired with Kopitar. Pearson gets **** on with minutes too much IMO as well.
I may not understand it, but I trust Sutter. I am sure I was complaining about some of the lines in 2014 playoffs and that turned out pretty damn good
KingCanadain1976
Registered User
Sure he got demoted for a few periods maybe but never games in a row In his 47 games he only had 3 under 12 mins none of which were back to back Sorry I will stand with my thinking he will never be on bottom line mins as long as Sutter is coaching
On the opposite end he had 5 games over 17 mins
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Kings might be a little better off overall with more depth on D. I don't think throwing an extra defender in solves the problems on D. Also I have no desire to watch this team go back to the 29th ranked offense with Brown/Lewis in the top 6. That leads to outshouting opponents 45-20 and losing. Then that is made worse by all the, but we won Corsi crap.
If the team is going to suck, I'd rather watch Lucic flatten guys and take bad penalties.
Remember when Pearson didn't get played, then demoted, then scored a hat trick in his first game down in the AHL, then was back up and Sutter still wouldn't play him? I could see Sutter rage quitting before Lombardi talks him into a youth movement.
It's funny because it's true!Edit: Thank God my hate for Lewis blinds me to King.
KingsFan7824
Registered User
- Dec 4, 2003
- 19,537
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It's more of what Lombardi is willing to do, than a matter of can't. If the cap is at the $74m they've talked about, the Kings currently have a something like $11m to spend. Trade King for a mid round pick, give Mersch a real shot, and that saves another $1.2m. Forget Lucic, and go out and try to sign Yandle, or 2 defensemen.
Every base isn't going to get covered heading into next season, no matter what Lombardi is willing to do. There are things that can change, but one of them would have to be Lombardi's unwillingness to trade anyone that has played any sort of real role in either Cup win, which he has not done since 2012. Trade Clifford for a mid round pick, make Andreoff the every day 4th line LW, and another million is opened up on the cap.
Or don't go crazy in free agency at all. This team hasn't earned that privilege in the last 2 years. If this roster has become a little bloated and inefficient, cut the fat where and when you can, keep all your picks while the big money players get paid, and just ride things out.
kingscups
Registered User
Agree that it is different now, and also believe that there are two options as to where this team now goes. Well, not really just two, I mean there are different shades of each if you will, plus I’m assuming we don’t go full Edmonton.
Option one, try to add band-aids to the current roster, giving up assets and picks while trying to scrape together another cup run out of this group. I believe this option will ultimately fail, and result in years of mediocrity, never getting us back atop the league, and then falling off into the abyss when the big three ate too old, and our cupboards are bare, and we don’t have a first until 2030.
Option two, focus on contending 3-5 years down the road, rebuilding on the fly, while keeping Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick moving forward, everyone else is in play depending on the return.
My fear is that Dean goes with option one.
AlphaBravo
Registered User
This is spot on. I honestly think the three priorities this summer are getting that top 4 defenseman by signing Yandle, acquiring a legit 3C, and getting rid of excess cap space which I consider to be Brown, Greene, Scuderi, Clifford and King. All holes on wing will get filled in by either the youth, other forwards contributing more, offense from defensemen, and any wingers we can acquire for cheap at the trade deadline.
Also, I sure hope we don't sign Lucic this summer. It will really handcuff our options this upcoming season and years to come. I would prefer signing Versteeg for two to three years at or below $3 million if possible than handing Lucic a $6 million x 7-8 year contract. Of course Versteeg wont produce as much as Lucic and is not as physical, but he is fast, has skill, can play on first line, and will provide sufficient bang for the buck.
The Tikkanen
Pest
I don't think so right now either but I also didn't think they would trade for Lucic either.
So trade Toffoli for Barrie. Move Martinez for a 1st from one of the Flames/Buffalo/MTL. They all need LHD and none in the draft are ready this year. Martinez's value might not quite be there, but he's a top 4D ready to go this year. For a team looking for immediate impact you might be able to pull it off.
Run ????/Doughty, Muzzin/Barrie. Kings have plenty of LHD to possibly fill out over the next couple of years + the pick from Martinez. If Sutter is back that ???? is Scuderi anyways.
Trouba would be another possibility, but would probably cost Muzzin.
Gamble on filling the 3C with Kempe/Amadio... if those don't work UFA/trade.
Move Pearson for Yak. This is a gamble, but I'm on a roll!
Resign Steeger if there's any cap left.
Run ????/Doughty, Muzzin/Barrie. Kings have plenty of LHD to possibly fill out over the next couple of years + the pick from Martinez. If Sutter is back that ???? is Scuderi anyways.
Trouba would be another possibility, but would probably cost Muzzin.
Gamble on filling the 3C with Kempe/Amadio... if those don't work UFA/trade.
Move Pearson for Yak. This is a gamble, but I'm on a roll!
Resign Steeger if there's any cap left.
kingsfan28
Its A Kingspiracy !
Just what this team needs, a spoiled, entitled Russian from the Oilers with no idea how to play defense.
AlphaBravo
Registered User
No offense but that is a horrible plan. Basically a minor upgrade on defense but we are still short a top 4 defenseman. And Yak is a downgrade to Pearson.
Kingsfan1
Registered User
If Brown is somehow moved then resign Lucic if not then move Clifford, King, Greene, Waive Scuderi in favor of Mersch, Dowd, Gravel,Forbort. Sign a defenseman and forward via UFA with the cap space we will have plus the pieces moved and roll with .
UFA/Gabby-Kopitar-Gaborik/Brown
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Dowd/UFA-Brown
Andreoff-Shore-Nolan/Auger
Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-UFA
Forbort-Martinez
Quick
UFA/Gabby-Kopitar-Gaborik/Brown
Pearson-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Dowd/UFA-Brown
Andreoff-Shore-Nolan/Auger
Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-UFA
Forbort-Martinez
Quick
You're great idea is letting Lucic walk, signing Yandle and running Muzzin/Doughty Yandle/Martinez?
Problem 1: Sutter is not going to run a Yandle/Martinez pair. (I doubt Sutter will put Martinez on the top pair either.)
Problem 2: Expansion draft. You are now protecting 3 of Doughty/Muzzin/Yandle/Martinez. (Kings need to add assets, not lose them for nothing.)
Problem 3: Let Lucic who is productive and wants to play in LA walk for nothing when the Kings need to add assets.
Yak is a gamble. Pearson is currently the better player. Yak if he can figure it out has much more skill. Kings are at a point where they need to pull things out of their *****. Putting Yak in a structured system could really pay off. Plus Sutter would get an ulcer coaching Yak. Not to mention the Kings have a ton of wings coming. Besides Sutter doesn't even play Pearson in the top 6 regularly.
The more I crunch the numbers it looks like move Toffoli/Martinez for cap reasons. Toffoli is a 30 goal scorer (on the Kings) and has a cup. Martinez has 2 cups. The Kings should be able to get some good assets back. Also moving Toffoli solves that inevitable 5-7M contract he'll sign.
They could move Brown, but that would probably cost assets instead of returning them.
-Need number 1: Solid RHD for the second pairing. There are not a lot of these players out there. There are fewer for trade. This is the hardest position to fill so it's the first as far as importance goes. The Kings are also competing with EDM for RHD, who will be dangling Hall/Eberle. This is why I threw out Toffoli for Barrie.
-Not being able to fill that offensive RHD: Sign Yandle, and a defensive RHD. Now keep in mind with Muzzin/Doughty, Yandle/???? the expansion draft, not to mention the cap. The Kings may have to sign someone like Schenn to fill that spot initially. It may take more then 1 year to fix the top 4. Kings don't have the cap space and the expansion is coming.
There's going to be some youth on the team next year to make the cap work. It would suck losing Toffoli and Martinez, but the Kings need to add assets, with no first this year and tanking's not really an option. The only way to do this is through UFA, which means the Kings have to move salary out, and trading players not named Clifford/King/Nolan/McNabb because mid to late round picks don't help and neither does saving less then 1M per player when you factor in their replacement.
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