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GDT: Offseason GDT II

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Kingsfan1 said:
Because Panarin and Donskoi put in time in the AHL. Sometimes it doesnt hurt to try
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For every Panarin and Donskoi there are 3-4 Plotnikovs.

I agree at swinging at 'free' assets but this organization seems to be done with head cases. I'm not certain Porky is one, but I also don't think DL NOT bringing him over is a signal that his ego is in the way (your suggestion).

Thrice said:
Far too simplified an approach. If you gave a GM and his amateur scouting staff a mandate to simply leave the draft with two guys that will make the NHL roster, you end up with what the Kings have done from 2010 to today. Targeting lots of role players that fit a system. And look where that's left the organization's prospect depth. In fact, Lombardi spent half of his bizarre conference call with the press saying the Kings need to change what they're doing at the amateur scouting level. His statements tell me that he is in no way happy with "batting 1000" by getting any two future NHL roster players.

You don't stay a contender if you're patting yourself on the back by selecting Nick Shore and Andy Andreoff. Those are replacement level players and they're part of the problem. The scouts have to do better.
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No, but you sure do by turning late firsts and seconds into top sixers (Pearson, Toffoli), 4th rounders into 2nd pairing d-men (Martinez), and so on...

But I agree with you and I think we should all be happy that they're not satisfied with that.

And again, for all we know, Amadio turns into a 2C, our 2nd this year turns into a top pairing d-man, etc...you never know, but the last few years, the opportunity to find out has simply not been there.
 
Trolfoli said:
They already have Moulson, what do they need with Brown. Hey maybe a Moulson for Brown trade? Who would have to add?

Moulson 5M, 3 more years, 8G 13A last year.
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Never said they would want him, just that you apparently think Buffalo is in a group of teams that he would turn down a deal, I think they would be at the top his personal list, if not, his first choice.
 
KopitarFAN said:
Never said they would want him, just that you apparently think Buffalo is in a group of teams that he would turn down a deal, I think they would be at the top his personal list, if not, his first choice.
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You mean Buffalo isn't in Canada?

It's funny. That's why joke is.
 
damacles1156 said:
I see the same in Okposo, the guy's compete level drops off too much.

The guy would be in Sutter's dog house, a lot.
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Right wing who shoots right, is a minus player every year except for one and might enjoy a big contract and the Manhattan Beach lifestyle? What could go wrong? Compare Lucic's plus minus to Okposo-end of story.
 
BigKing said:
Team definitely needs some Lilja, Bednar and Pirnes types to really compete.
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or

Karalahti, Chartrand, Brennan, Flinn, Zizka, Barney, Smithson, McAlpine, Schmidt, Rosa, Tikhonov, Aulin, and Tsyplakov types

God, we sucked at hockey for so long :shakehead
 
KingPuckChoo said:
or

Karalahti, Chartrand, Brennan, Flinn, Zizka, Barney, Smithson, McAlpine, Schmidt, Rosa, Tikhonov, Aulin, and Tsyplakov types

God, we sucked at hockey for so long :shakehead
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I had high hopes for Karalahti, Barney and Rosa at the time. Just reminds me to not overrate our prospects.
 
funky said:
I had high hopes for Karalahti, Barney and Rosa at the time. Just reminds me to not overrate our prospects.
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Goes to show you that hockey is about more then just the game. One guy lost to drugs, another to a series of injuries, and the last... Well I guess the NHL is really hard.
 
Ziggy Stardust said:
Tikhonov?

I'll add Tomas Vlasak and Derek Bekar to that list.
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i dunno why i keep thinking Tikhonov was drafted by LA...

Pushkarev, Kanko, Anshakov, Grebeshkov, Karlsson, Tukonen, Moller, Loktionov, Prokhorkin... so many drafted euro-busts it's staggering

pending busts: Zykov?

future bust? might as well add Kempe (his AHL stats are just ok)

i have high hopes on Lintuniemi and Cernak though, they can potentially be #6-7Ds

our last successful European drafted players:
Voynov (2008)
Kopitar (2005)
Frolov (2000)
Visnovsky (2000)

that's 4 European players in 16 years lol
 
KingPuckChoo said:
i dunno why i keep thinking Tikhonov was drafted by LA...

Pushkarev, Kanko, Anshakov, Grebeshkov, Karlsson, Tukonen, Moller, Loktionov, Prokhorkin... so many drafted euro-busts it's staggering

pending busts: Zykov?

future bust? might as well add Kempe (his AHL stats are just ok)

i have high hopes on Lintuniemi and Cernak though, they can potentially be #6-7Ds

our last successful European drafted players:
Voynov (2008)
Kopitar (2005)
Frolov (2000)
Visnovsky (2000)

that's 4 European players in 16 years lol
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A lot of teams don't end up drafting a Kopitar at all though in two decades. Still hard to believe Kopitar went 11th overall.

So success there at least.
 
Before that, in the 90s

Kaberle (1999)
Jokinen (1996)
Berg (1995)
Yachmenev (1994)
Timonen (1993)
Zhitnik (1991)
Lang (1990)

it's no secret the distrust the Kings organization has for European players

and i guess their track record speaks for itself as a good reson why

none of these players were elite impact players (you can make a case for Lang in his Pittsburgh days though)

really, when you think about it, Kopitar is pretty much our only true European draft success

very sad
 
damacles1156 said:
A lot of teams don't end up drafting a Kopitar at all though in two decades. Still hard to believe Kopitar went 11th overall.

So success there at least.
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The Kings were decent at identifying solid Europeans for a while there. It was obvious that scouting in those areas was emphasized. They were averaging at least 1 good European per draft.

2000 - Frolov, Lilja, Visnovsky
1999 - Kaberle
1997 - Jokinen
1995 - Berg
1994 - Yachmenev
1993 - Timonen
1991 - Zhitnik
1990 - Lang

All of those guys made an impact in some way in the NHL. 8 of them were all-stars and/or Olympians.
 
And that's without a good development system. Makes you wonder what some of those guys could have become on the current-era Kings with a better development system and less being forced into immediate action.

A guy like Kempe would have been a 1LW out of his draft in the early 2000s.
 
Fishhead said:
The Kings were decent at identifying solid Europeans for a while there. It was obvious that scouting in those areas was emphasized. They were averaging at least 1 good European per draft.

2000 - Frolov, Lilja, Visnovsky
1999 - Kaberle
1997 - Jokinen
1995 - Berg
1994 - Yachmenev
1993 - Timonen
1991 - Zhitnik
1990 - Lang

All of those guys made an impact in some way in the NHL. 8 of them were all-stars and/or Olympians.
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haha man, classic example at how two people can stare at the same exact picture, but see something totally different
 
We need Philippe Boucher back, was so pissed when we couldn't hang on to him. And then of course he went to Dallas and played very well there.
 
The fact of the matter is the Kings dont go for skilled Europeans they go for ones that they believe fit our outdated system. Now that they realize the game has changed maybe they will draft Tarasenkos and Kucherovs when theyre available. I was there at the 2010 draft and when they moved up 4 spots to pick at 15th i remember everyone was calling for Tarasenko only to hear Forbort. In 2011 Kucherov who was highly thought of fell to the 2nd round and again we picked Chris Gibson when at the time we had Jones and Quick and didnt seem like any goalies would be in our plans.

I like to think that Hockey is a Canadians sport however you cant deny that Europeans have more skill and speed that fits todays NHL. I dont remember the last time we drafted a superstar in the later rounds. Every year it seems like other Teams hit a homerun while we only pick players who just play their role on our team.

Palat , Kucherov , Gaudreau we need some luck and better scouting done in the European leagues . This team is deprived of skill. Our bottom 6 is a big reason why we havent had success for 2 years in a row. There is lots of dead weight in our bottom 6 that needs to replaced . Hopefully Dean and Company change the system and course and upgrade our team.

This next 2 years will be crucial to see where this team is headed . Our defense also needs to shy away from big slow players and add some skill into the lineup. There are many kids in the remaining 4 teams currently in the playoffs that pay big dividends for their team.
 
Kingsfan1 said:
The fact of the matter is the Kings dont go for skilled Europeans they go for ones that they believe fit our outdated system. Now that they realize the game has changed maybe they will draft Tarasenkos and Kucherovs when theyre available. I was there at the 2010 draft and when they moved up 4 spots to pick at 15th i remember everyone was calling for Tarasenko only to hear Forbort. In 2011 Kucherov who was highly thought of fell to the 2nd round and again we picked Chris Gibson when at the time we had Jones and Quick and didnt seem like any goalies would be in our plans.

I like to think that Hockey is a Canadians sport however you cant deny that Europeans have more skill and speed that fits todays NHL. I dont remember the last time we drafted a superstar in the later rounds. Every year it seems like other Teams hit a homerun while we only pick players who just play their role on our team.

Palat , Kucherov , Gaudreau we need some luck and better scouting done in the European leagues . This team is deprived of skill. Our bottom 6 is a big reason why we havent had success for 2 years in a row. There is lots of dead weight in our bottom 6 that needs to replaced . Hopefully Dean and Company change the system and course and upgrade our team.

This next 2 years will be crucial to see where this team is headed . Our defense also needs to shy away from big slow players and add some skill into the lineup. There are many kids in the remaining 4 teams currently in the playoffs that pay big dividends for their team.
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15 teams passed on Tarasenko.

All of them passed on Kucherov, and you're bemoaning our lack of picking Europeans...when we passed on Kucherov to pick a European.

The fact of the matter is you're ignoring facts to make a point that is simply untrue and has been proven wrong. Most of us (and apparently the org) agree that we can be better in the draft and it's nice to see us refocus on that, but I don't think even that means "draft more europeans" (hell you may apparently be better off trying to sign them later if recent history is any indication).
 
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KingPuckChoo said:
haha man, classic example at how two people can stare at the same exact picture, but see something totally different
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Absolutely :)

The Kings were never great at European scouting, but were pretty good there for a bit. They've certainly not been good for a while at locating guys overseas.
 
Raccoon Jesus said:
15 teams passed on Tarasenko.

All of them passed on Kucherov, and you're bemoaning our lack of picking Europeans...when we passed on Kucherov to pick a European.

The fact of the matter is you're ignoring facts to make a point that is simply untrue and has been proven wrong. Most of us (and apparently the org) agree that we can be better in the draft and it's nice to see us refocus on that, but I don't think even that means "draft more europeans" (hell you may apparently be better off trying to sign them later if recent history is any indication).
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15 teams passed on Tarasenko but everyone was calling for him. In 2011 we drafted Gibson before Kucherov and Andreoff after Kucherov so im not sure what European you speak of that we passed on Kucherov for.

Unless your speaking of Gibson because he is Finnish. But he was playing in the QMJHL and we didnt need goalies at the time
 
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