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Speculation: Offseason coaching thread: Should they stay or should they go?

Coaches:

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Andy99 said:
I saw this today on Lyle’s rumor site and was irrationally happy lol…

MIKE SULLIVAN TO THE DEVILS?

TORONTO STAR: Nick Kypreos reports rumors that Penguins head coach Mike Sullivan could leave Pittsburgh to become the New Jersey Devils’ new bench boss. Devils general manager Tom Fitzgerald is a close friend of Sullivan’s. “It could simply come down to Sullivan’s lack of confidence in GM (Kyle) Dubas’ ability to contend anytime soon.”

SPECTOR’S NOTE: No indication out of Pittsburgh or New Jersey thus far suggesting Sullivan is ready to bolt from the Penguins to join the Devils. There’s also no hint that the Pens intend to fire Sullivan, something that likely would’ve happened by now if there was any unhappiness over his coaching.
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Kypreos has a huge anti-Dubas axe to grind. I question anything he reports involving the Pens.

EDIT: That same column about Sullivan and the Devils has this note --
On Sidney Crosby playing at world championships: The 36-year-old should seriously contemplate playing in May with the goal of establishing his role for Canada ahead of the next Olympics.

Crosby's role, Nick? How about first or second line center you jackwagon?
 
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Todd would be perfect in San Jose, San Jose suck are a hapless collective group of pants on head dumb dummies, Todd is a hapless pants on bald head dumb dummie coach, they go together like gasoline and a bon fire.
 
Who is keeping Reirden employed? Is it Sullivan not wanting any changes at all to his staff? Is it ownership not wanting to pay extra money on the staff?

This is a sad state of affairs if no changes to the coaching staff are made this off-season. Yeah, this is a flawed roster but nobody can convince me that this group is not good enough to squeeze into the playoffs, at least.
 
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Jag68Sid87 said:
Who is keeping Reirden employed? Is it Sullivan not wanting any changes at all to his staff? Is it ownership not wanting to pay extra money on the staff?

This is a sad state of affairs if no changes to the coaching staff are made this off-season. Yeah, this is a flawed roster but nobody can convince me that this group is not good enough to squeeze into the playoffs, at least.
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Todd is an associate coach, not assistant, so he probably makes more than most assistants. If he is brought back it is because of Dubas and/or Sully, not FSG saving money.
 
Jag68Sid87 said:
Who is keeping Reirden employed? Is it Sullivan not wanting any changes at all to his staff? Is it ownership not wanting to pay extra money on the staff?

This is a sad state of affairs if no changes to the coaching staff are made this off-season. Yeah, this is a flawed roster but nobody can convince me that this group is not good enough to squeeze into the playoffs, at least.
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I remember thinking a few years ago when we let go Tocchet and Martin and Gonchar but somehow didn't fire Sullivan that things were f***ed, that Sullivan is here because Sid wants him to be, and nothing has really happened to convince me of anything different since then.

It wasn't even that I thought any of the ACs were really all that great, but if you're going to make a show of force and fire every single coach but the head one, that's a bad move IMO. The buck has to stop at the HC, otherwise it's just an exercise in blowhardiness.
 
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BusinessGoose said:
I mean, from any business perspective, it's just odd

If you have a failing restaurant, you fire the door greeter and waitstaff, but keep the manager? Even if those employees were part of the problem.... That manager was signing off on them!
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Yeah, it doesn't make sense from really any perspective: a hockey perspective, a business perspective, a leadership perspective. It only kind of makes sense if you interpret it at the organization prioritizing not even remotely inconveniencing Sid over the success of the organization and its legacy, but even then it's really f***ing dumb.

I'm sure someone can tell me what I'm missing though.
 
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HandshakeLine said:
Yeah, it doesn't make sense from really any perspective: a hockey perspective, a business perspective, a leadership perspective. It only kind of makes sense if you interpret it at the organization prioritizing not even remotely inconveniencing Sid over the success of the organization and its legacy, but even then it's really f***ing dumb.

I'm sure someone can tell me what I'm missing though.
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How can anyone tell you what you’re missing when you’ve made up the entire premise in your own mind?

For all we know, Geno is the guy who wants to keep Sullivan around. It looked to me like Sid basically quit on the coach for about 5 games at the beginning of March. The entire team looked like they had tuned him out. And still nothing.

This isn’t on any player even if you want it to be. It’s on idiotic mgmt and an ownership that doesn’t seem to care.
 
FSG keeping Sullivan to appease Sid is nonsense. If they cared remotely about Sid’s opinion, would they have traded Jake? Clearly Sid was not happy after the trade.
 
canadianguy77 said:
How can anyone tell you what you’re missing when you’ve made up the entire premise in your own mind?

For all we know, Geno is the guy who wants to keep Sullivan around. It looked to me like Sid basically quit on the coach for about 5 games at the beginning of March. The entire team looked like they had tuned him out. And still nothing.

This isn’t on any player even if you want it to be. It’s on idiotic mgmt and an ownership that doesn’t seem to care.
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You can set a watch to it.

Pens x said:
FSG keeping Sullivan to appease Sid is nonsense. If they cared remotely about Sid’s opinion, would they have traded Jake? Clearly Sid was not happy after the trade.
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Sure, but there's really no reason that two separate ownerships and 3 different GMs have failed to fire Sullivan. You have to look for the constants when you're stuck with the guy over pretty much every different radical permutation possible with the ownership group, roster, front office, and coaching staff.

Hell, maybe he's only on staff because he's the only one who can get Letang to the arena in the morning? Hell if I know. It's just frankly bizarre and it doesn't make any real lick of sense from any angle, just the appease Sid/appease the core makes the most (that is to say "a little but not much") sense.
 
I don't know if Sid and/or Geno are campaigning to keep Sully or whatever, but I know they're not speaking up and questioning things (coaching) after six consecutive, consistently worsening seasons. Sully would be gone the second Sid said peep. Even if FSG and Dubas still wanted Sully around, if Sid didn't, he'd be in NJ already.

I know people don't wanna hear that, and I agree it's on FSG and Dubas to do their job, but to pretend it's not a *little* Sid's fault Sully's still around is silly. This organization's too afraid of mildly inconveniencing Sid that they're petrified into inaction out of fear that he'd so much as frown.
 
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Big Friggin Dummy said:
I don't know if Sid and/or Geno are campaigning to keep Sully or whatever, but I know they're not speaking up and questioning things (coaching) after six consecutive, consistently worsening seasons. Sully would be gone the second Sid said peep. Even if FSG and Dubas still wanted Sully around, if Sid didn't, he'd be in NJ already.

I know people don't wanna hear that, and I agree it's on FSG and Dubas to do their job, but to pretend it's not a *little* Sid's fault Sully's still around is silly. This organization's too afraid of mildly inconveniencing Sid that they're petrified into inaction out of fear that he'd so much as frown.
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This is what I think the most likely situation is. The core might not even be aware of it.
 
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HandshakeLine said:
This is what I think the most likely situation is. The core might not even be aware of it.
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Yeah, and I think it's fair to say it shouldn't be on them to be the catalyst for the coaching change, but like... FSG and Dubas are fully enamored with this loser. So if they wanna win, they gotta say something. /shrug

I don't even particularly care that much anymore. I've been resigned to Sully being around forever since they extended him. :laugh: It just sucks cuz this team's gonna circle the drain for like a decade before they even begin the lengthy rebuild, simply because they're too stupid, arrogant, or both, to do anything to try and salvage things with two of the best ever to play.
 
Big Friggin Dummy said:
I don't know if Sid and/or Geno are campaigning to keep Sully or whatever, but I know they're not speaking up and questioning things (coaching) after six consecutive, consistently worsening seasons. Sully would be gone the second Sid said peep. Even if FSG and Dubas still wanted Sully around, if Sid didn't, he'd be in NJ already.

I know people don't wanna hear that, and I agree it's on FSG and Dubas to do their job, but to pretend it's not a *little* Sid's fault Sully's still around is silly. This organization's too afraid of mildly inconveniencing Sid that they're petrified into inaction out of fear that he'd so much as frown.
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You dont trade Jake if you are afraid of mildly inconveniencing Sid.

It doesnt help that we haven’t had a competent front office since JR somehow stumbled into a bunch of very good deals from 2014-2016.
 
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Pens x said:
You dont trade Jake if you are afraid of mildly inconveniencing Sid.

It doesnt help that we haven’t had a competent front office since JR somehow stumbled into a bunch of very good deals from 2014-2016.
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I agree. Blaming Sid at all for Sully still being here seems unfair.

I think the reason he's still here is simple. Fsg likes him, and Hextall and Dubas both like him.

Firing coaches isn't exactly Dubas thing either. Remember how long he stuck with Keefe? When he likes a coach he stays with them.
 
HandshakeLine said:
Let's spin it out to a different topic: Why is Mike Sullivan still here? Serious answers only.
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I think it's a combination of factors.

1. He has the respect of the core. That's documented. And we all know the core is resistant to change. So they're supporting him.

2. He sells his vision well to other hockey people. Those who have watched closely for his tenure might be fired of Sullivan hockey. But to those who haven't watched every single game, he preaches a playing style and approach that sounds good. He's a good salesman.

3. His preferred style worked to the tune of two Stanley Cups, so not only does he have gratuity built up from those wins, but there has potentially been a sense of, "Well, it worked in the past with some of these same players. It should be able to work again with the right mix."

I think those are the main factors. The core is responsible for No. 1. FSG is responsible for No. 2. And now Dubas seems to be responsible for No. 3.

If the core or Dubas change their tune, I think that would be enough to effect change.

I don't have an answer as to why Reirden and Vellucci haven't been formally dismissed, though.
 
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Pancakes said:
I agree. Blaming Sid at all for Sully still being here seems unfair.

I think the reason he's still here is simple. Fsg likes him, and Hextall and Dubas both like him.

Firing coaches isn't exactly Dubas thing either. Remember how long he stuck with Keefe? When he likes a coach he stays with them.
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To be fair (ugh) to Keefe, he at least made it out of the 1st round once.

DesertedPenguin said:
I don't have an answer as to why Reirden and Vellucci haven't been formally dismissed, though.
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Because the organization doesn't care would be my cynical answer. At some point, if they wanted to have a functional power play, they would have made it happen by hook or by crook.

This team is really a ship without a rudder, IMO.
 
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