Official Training Camp Thread

[LeafEgo]

Cup finalists last four years:

Avs 22: (MANSON) (E Johnson)
Bolts 22: (HEDMAN) (Cernak) (Serg) (Bogo)
Bolts 21: (HEDMAN) (Cernak) (Serg) (Schenn)
Habs 21: (WEBER) (Edmundson) (Petry) (Chariot)
Bolts 20: (HEDMAN) (Cernak) (Serg) (Bogo)
Stars 20: (OLEKSIAK) (Lindell)
Blues 19: (PARAYKO) (Edmundson) (Bortuzzo) (Petro)
Bruins 19: (CHARA) (Carlo)

Leafs: Muzzin

We are lacking Cup DNA on the back end.

 

[Stephen]

A bit of a specious argument there Zeke. Saying there aren't advantages to big physical players kind of disregards the requirement that players ever hit the gym. Two opposing players of equal skill and IQ level will aways be decided on size, strength and aggression. That is a fact

Agree with you.

I think we’re dealing with two specious assumptions here. First is this idea that you’re either small and skilled or big fridge with no skills. And of course the former is preferable if those are your binary choices.

But that glosses over the reality that everyone’s somewhere on the spectrum of skills to size and sometimes you need a ratio of this or that. But all else being equal you probably want the bigger player. For example you’ll never trade our 6’3” Auston Matthews for an otherwise identical 5’10” version.

The other assumption is just a disregard for defensively oriented players who are typically big and don’t have your obvious finesse skills. I’m not rushing to buy their jersey either but having them in the lineup is important. And I bet we’ll be looking for one or two at the deadline.

 

[Stephen]

Stephen, my man, you gotta update that one. Rim protectors have been declining in value for a while. Wing defenders with large wingspans and quick feet are the rage now.

They fill a similar function with a different degree of mobility and athleticism but you’re still talking about defending with size at the end of the day. Relating back to hockey, yeah I’d rather have Victor Hedman but sometime you’d settle for an Erik Cernak.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

If we're so hot an heavy for size and weight, some big D that are UFA's next year and might be available at the deadline:

• Mayfield RD (NYI)
• Graves LD (NJ)
• Soucy RD (SEA)
• Gavrikov LD (CLB)

Rielly - Soucy/Mayfield
Muzzin - Brodie
Gio - Liljegren
Sandin

That seems like a pretty robust D core for the playoffs imo. Holl would need to be dealt to make room (unless we moved Lilly or Sandin).

 

[zeke]

and when it mattered we didn't.

thanks, stripes.

 

[HockeyVirus]

the updated excuse for losing is 'too much Boosh".

Sometimes there isn't a good reason why teams lose other than only 1 team can win. If team Canada faced a clone of itself, one of them would lose despite being equal rosters. That poster I don't agree with a lot of the time because of arguments like that. I agree with him the Leafs played well, and they will be a contender again this year. But Boosh brought value to us, hence why he was playing so many minutes for us.

We valued his ability to clear the crease and standup at our own blueline and that isn't well reflected in many advanced stats

 

[zeke]

A bit of a specious argument there Zeke. Saying there aren't advantages to big physical players kind of disregards the requirement that players ever hit the gym. Two opposing players of equal skill and IQ level will aways be decided on size, strength and aggression. That is a fact

There's all sorts of advantages and disadvantages. But being big and tough seems to blind everyone to all sorts of disadvantages.

 

[Havoc]

Yeah, some people still vastly overrate big physical hitters over the more important facets of the game.

Who are these "some people". You made these people up because of your phobia to the P word.

The extreme hitzzz crowd ended back in 2019 dude, most people just architect a well balanced team of skill speed iq and physicality now.

 

[kb]

A bit of a specious argument there Zeke. Saying there aren't advantages to big physical players kind of disregards the requirement that players ever hit the gym. Two opposing players of equal skill and IQ level will aways be decided on size, strength and aggression. That is a fact

No argument here. So this is how it lines up.

1) Defensemen who are big and physical with IQ and skill > 2) Defensemen with IQ and skill > 3) Defensemen who are big and physical

The issue here is people value group 3 over group 2.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Is Simmonds our designated goon?

 

[Havoc]

Defensemen who are big and tough and can play > Defensemen who can play > Defensemen who are big and tough

No argument here. So this is how it lines up.

1) Defensemen who are big and physical with IQ and skill > 2) Defensemen with IQ and skill > 3) Defensemen who are big and physical

The issue here is people value group 3 over group 2.

So not true. The vocal P crowd doesn't even like Simmonds yet you think 3 is valued over 2? There is literally NOBODY on this board who will allow someone on the team just because they're only big and physical. Similar to Dekes you're living in 2019.

Edit: Your bias against boosh doesnt count as 3 over 2

 

[kb]

So not true. The vocal P crowd doesn't even like Simmonds yet you think 3 is valued over 2? There is literally NOBODY on this board who will allow someone on the team just because they're only big and physical. Similar to Dekes you're living in 2019.

Edit: Your bias against boosh doesnt count as 3 over 2

I liked Boosh.

I don't think a couple of hits and makes up for his lack of puck skills and foot speed.....but again, the coach played the players he trusted more. That's not my call or decision, but I saw it the same as he (Keefe) did.

A little more skill and IQ and I would have wanted him back.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Cup finalists last four years:

Avs 22: (MANSON) (E Johnson)
Bolts 22: (HEDMAN) (Cernak) (Serg) (Bogo)
Bolts 21: (HEDMAN) (Cernak) (Serg) (Schenn)
Habs 21: (WEBER) (Edmundson) (Petry) (Chariot)
Bolts 20: (HEDMAN) (Cernak) (Serg) (Bogo)
Stars 20: (OLEKSIAK) (Lindell)
Blues 19: (PARAYKO) (Edmundson) (Bortuzzo) (Petro)
Bruins 19: (CHARA) (Carlo)

Leafs: Muzzin

We are lacking Cup DNA on the back end.

Liljegren is just as physical as most on that list

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Liljegren is just as physical as most on that list

Not really. He's no slouch. But not in the league of those in quote.

 

[HockeyVirus]

Not really. He's no slouch. But not in the league of those in quote.

He is quite easily as physical as sergachev...

 

[Dekes For Days]

Who are these "some people".

You could just look around you, but the person I replied to, for one.

most people just architect a well balanced team of skill speed iq and physicality now.

Then they should be happy with our team that is exactly that.

It's hard to fathom why people disregard physicality as an important point that requires addressing.

Nobody is disregarding what physicality can provide. Physicality can be a positive attribute, and can be utilized in useful ways to the benefit of the team and player. The issue is that there are some people who think physicality provides things it doesn't provide, that it's way more important than it actually is, and that it's a necessity to have in abundance to have any success, and they put physicality on a pedestal it doesn't deserve over other attributes.

Worse is that actual beneficial physicality is often overlooked for more superficial displays of physicality like da big hitz, because they're more visible to the casual fan's eye, and what often gets missed is that the players who lay tons of these big hits often do so because their other deficiencies put/keep themselves in these nonstop defensive situations.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

When is this game?

I saw a listing that said that the game is at 8pm.

Is that true?

 

[thinkblue]

When is this game?

I saw a listing that said that the game is at 8pm.

Is that true?

7pm on SN1.

 

[zeke]

Malgin, Holmberg, Robertson clearly in the fight for final roster spots.

I'd say this might be the first sign Holl is out of the top 6 but then again if Muzz was ready to go he might be paired up with him.

 

[kb]

Malgin, Holmberg, Robertson clearly in the fight for final roster spots.

I'd say this might be the first sign Holl is out of the top 6 but then again if Muzz was ready to go he might be paired up with him.

Also shows what the 4th line might potentially be.

 

[SprDaVE]

Malgin, Holmberg, Robertson clearly in the fight for final roster spots.

I'd say this might be the first sign Holl is out of the top 6 but then again if Muzz was ready to go he might be paired up with him.

Might be the last time we see Anderson in a Leafs jersey. Seems inline to be waived and I will guarantee him being claimed.

 

[Oscar Peterson]

Might be the last time we see Anderson in a Leafs jersey. Seems inline to be waived and I will guarantee him being claimed.

I'm alright with this. I've never seen anything from him suggesting that he's an NHLer. Never hurts to have injury depth but I'd imagine Steeves, Robertson, maybe Holmberg or Gaudette (though I don't really know much about him) would be ahead of him on the call up list anyways.

 

[SprDaVE]

I'm alright with this. I've never seen anything from him suggesting that he's an NHLer. Never hurts to have injury depth but I'd imagine Steeves, Robertson, maybe Holmberg or Gaudette (though I don't really know much about him) would be ahead of him on the call up list anyways.

I think he's a pretty solid depth player that just needs to play. He's pretty average all across the board but he's underrated around the net.

Not a big deal and we'll survive, I just think he needed to get a longer look prior to him being waiver eligible.

 

[zeke]

Might be the last time we see Anderson in a Leafs jersey. Seems inline to be waived and I will guarantee him being claimed.

This year in particular feels like a year where more guys skate waivers than usual, but maybe not. But tbh he's not showing much here at age 24 so losing him probably not a big deal.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I'm alright with this. I've never seen anything from him suggesting that he's an NHLer. Never hurts to have injury depth but I'd imagine Steeves, Robertson, maybe Holmberg or Gaudette (though I don't really know much about him) would be ahead of him on the call up list anyways.

I wish I was alright with this. The Mango trade was a disgrace.