Official Tank Thread of the Toronto Maple Leafs

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Throwing it out there -

If the Leafs won 1st overall, and *knew* Stamkos was coming here.

Would you trade Matthews/The pick for an established top pairing right handed defenseman? (or one with potential)

Doughty-Ekblad-Jones (just as examples) - if it was someone like Jones, i'd want a plus and they'd have to take a cap dump. I don't think Ekblad is available (they have great centres in Barkov and Bjugstad already). I'm just spitballing here.

Just want to see what peoples thoughts are on something like this.

Nope. Keep the pick, draft the generational centre. Stamkos would either move to the wing or be the 1B centre.

Under no circumstance do you trade the pick.

 

[JackJ]

Throwing it out there -

If the Leafs won 1st overall, and *knew* Stamkos was coming here.

Would you trade Matthews/The pick for an established top pairing right handed defenseman? (or one with potential)

Take both and move Nylander & Marner to the wings.

JVR Stamkos Nylander
Marner Matthews Brown
Winnik Kadri -------

 

[TheCLAM]

Throwing it out there -

If the Leafs won 1st overall, and *knew* Stamkos was coming here.

Would you trade Matthews/The pick for an established top pairing right handed defenseman? (or one with potential)

Doughty-Ekblad-Jones (just as examples) - if it was someone like Jones, i'd want a plus and they'd have to take a cap dump. I don't think Ekblad is available (they have great centres in Barkov and Bjugstad already). I'm just spitballing here.

Just want to see what peoples thoughts are on something like this. I don't want to try to fast forward a rebuild but there is a lot of time to go between now and the draft, so it is fun to discuss scenarios.

Not a chance you draft Matthews no discussion. I wouldn't trade the first overall for Jones given that a solid option in Chychurn is there. Hypothetically if I was GM I would select Matthews 100%, however, if an over-payment were to happen you move down a pick and select the Sarnia defenseman.

Look to move Kadri for a defenseman or package together quality lessar prospects to upgrade defense, even that later PITS first could become a solid chip. The goal is to maximize roster quality.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Nope. Keep the pick, draft the generational centre. Stamkos would either move to the wing or be the 1B centre.

Under no circumstance do you trade the pick.

I think Stamkos may be leaving Tampa because of the wing switch. Plus 8.5-10M is a lot to invest into a 2nd centre, or 1st with Matthews being the 2nd line centre. With Nylander developing as a centre, Kadri, Bozak...suddenly that's a lot of centres (at that point it's a given Marner moves to the wing).

I kind of lean towards where you're coming from though, Matthews is a 6'3 centre who we'd have from the age of 18-19...it's a great building block. Again though, we have a long time to wait before the draft so just enjoying having the discussion in the mean time

 

[Gary Nylund]

So you have a problem doing that rebuild with a young superstar as the centerpiece?

Huh?

So because of their past they should never sign free agents again?

Nobody said he could.

You don't have the first clue what they are planning, none of us do.

Stamkos hasn't earned a contract?

Stamkos is aging?

Is he getting younger?

He'll be 26 when next season starts. Assuming we sign him for the likely required years, he'll be 30 when he starts the 5th year of that contract. That's about the earliest time we can even start to think about contending and that's the time we might see just how risky a signing Stamkos was.

Talking about signing Stamoks without cost being a huge part of that discussion in this cap era is beyond naive.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

I think Stamkos may be leaving Tampa because of the wing switch. Plus 8.5-10M is a lot to invest into a 2nd centre, or 1st with Matthews being the 2nd line centre. With Nylander developing as a centre, Kadri, Bozak...suddenly that's a lot of centres (at that point it's a given Marner moves to the wing).

I kind of lean towards where you're coming from though, Matthews is a 6'3 centre who we'd have from the age of 18-19...it's a great building block. Again though, we have a long time to wait before the draft so just enjoying having the discussion in the mean time

I'll probably get crucified, but if I'm in that situation and have to choose between Matthews and Stammer, I'm choosing the cheap centre.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'll probably get crucified, but if I'm in that situation and have to choose between Matthews and Stammer, I'm choosing the cheap centre.

Not really, it's a worthwhile debate.

Matthews = younger, cheaper, size, speed, guaranteed 7 years of service
cons: he could bust or not be as good as Stamkos

Stamkos = established 1C, capable scorer, Ontario native, loves the Leafs
cons: contract, and if the rebuild hits any snags, he could start to decline as we are on the rise. The contract could be prohibitive of us re-signing key guys later (any scenario in which we sign him definitely needs to involve us successfully dumping our crap contracts).

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not really, it's a worthwhile debate.

Matthews = younger, cheaper, size, speed, guaranteed 7 years of service
cons: he could bust or not be as good as Stamkos

Stamkos = established 1C, capable scorer, Ontario native, loves the Leafs
cons: contract, and if the rebuild hits any snags, he could start to decline as we are on the rise. The contract could be prohibitive of us re-signing key guys later (any scenario in which we sign him definitely needs to involve us successfully dumping our crap contracts).

This is the biggest problem with paying big bucks for Stamkos.

Of course Matthews would be much better than Stamkos for us. We won't be contending for at least years at which time Matthews will likely be entering his peak and Stamkos will likely be declining. Easy decision for me.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I think Stamkos may be leaving Tampa because of the wing switch. Plus 8.5-10M is a lot to invest into a 2nd centre, or 1st with Matthews being the 2nd line centre. With Nylander developing as a centre, Kadri, Bozak...suddenly that's a lot of centres (at that point it's a given Marner moves to the wing).

I kind of lean towards where you're coming from though, Matthews is a 6'3 centre who we'd have from the age of 18-19...it's a great building block. Again though, we have a long time to wait before the draft so just enjoying having the discussion in the mean time

that would be funny!
"Of Course, Stammer, you can be the centre, OF COURSE!!"

then

"yeah, dude, you're on wing duty."

truthfully i'd go Matthews (obviously). but then I've made my bones about signing Stamkos.

my thing would be is Chychyrun (or Puljuvaari) are closer to Matthews.

 

[WTFMAN99]

that would be funny!
"Of Course, Stammer, you can be the centre, OF COURSE!!"

then

"yeah, dude, you're on wing duty."

truthfully i'd go Matthews (obviously). but then I've made my bones about signing Stamkos.

my thing would be is Chychyrun (or Puljuvaari) are closer to Matthews.

Lol, it's all good, like I said, it's just more about scenario discussion...we have a lot of time to kill this year.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Where's that Gary Batman guy to provide the TM Tank Tracker?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Lol, it's all good, like I said, it's just more about scenario discussion...we have a lot of time to kill this year.

oh i know.

that's why my thing is
is Matthews 100 percent the "right" choice. like. I know this fanbases desire to get a centre. i'm surprise that we haven't deployed brain-wash artists to Edmonton and bamboozle Chia for McDavid yet

But all i've heard from this Puljavaari kid is that he's reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllly good. so is Chychyrun. so my thing is, should there be a debate on who to take (realistically), or is Matthews a given.

 

[WTFMAN99]

oh i know.

that's why my thing is
is Matthews 100 percent the "right" choice. like. I know this fanbases desire to get a centre. i'm surprise that we haven't deployed brain-wash artists to Edmonton and bamboozle Chia for McDavid yet

But all i've heard from this Puljavaari kid is that he's reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllly good. so is Chychyrun. so my thing is, should there be a debate on who to take (realistically), or is Matthews a given.

Matthews is pretty much a 100% given. He's the consensus #1

He missed the last draft by 2 years, and there was considerable debate over who would go #2 - Eichel or Matthews? Ultimately it still probably is Eichel, but that speaks loudly for what kind of player Matthews is.

 

[Jerkini]

Throwing it out there -

If the Leafs won 1st overall, and *knew* Stamkos was coming here.

Would you trade Matthews/The pick for an established top pairing right handed defenseman? (or one with potential)

Doughty-Ekblad-Jones (just as examples) - if it was someone like Jones, i'd want a plus and they'd have to take a cap dump. I don't think Ekblad is available (they have great centres in Barkov and Bjugstad already). I'm just spitballing here.

Just want to see what peoples thoughts are on something like this. I don't want to try to fast forward a rebuild but there is a lot of time to go between now and the draft, so it is fun to discuss scenarios.

I would puke if that were to happen. It reeks of the shortsighted decision making that has plagued this team for over a decade.

 

[Shwaguy*]

Stammer is already declining

 

[HamiltonNHL]

We need the cap flexibility to wheel and deal.
Can't pick up Stamkos when he is available ... as that would be putting the cart before the horse.

WONT HAPPEN.

This is not a 9 month rebuild.

Only reason this could happen is because Stamkos *WANTS* it.
Any why would he really ?

 

[Swayze*]

We need the cap flexibility to wheel and deal.
Can't pick up Stamkos when he is available ... as that would be putting the cart before the horse.

WONT HAPPEN.

This is not a 9 month rebuild.

Only reason this could happen is because Stamkos *WANTS* it.
Any why would he really ?

oh, it would happen man

don't kid yourself. If he's available they'll go all in

 

[burpsalot]

I'll probably get crucified, but if I'm in that situation and have to choose between Matthews and Stammer, I'm choosing the cheap centre.

I think I'm with you here.

 

[Ovate]

I'll probably get crucified, but if I'm in that situation and have to choose between Matthews and Stammer, I'm choosing the cheap centre.

It's not choosing between Matthews and Stammer. It's choosing between Matthew and Stammer + a young, top pairing RHD.

 

[OvenMittz*]

So you have a problem doing that rebuild with a young superstar as the centerpiece?




Huh?





So because of their past they should never sign free agents again?






Nobody said he could.




You don't have the first clue what they are planning, none of us do.




Stamkos hasn't earned a contract?






Stamkos is aging?

The only thing deserving of a facepalm is your dumb response.

-A declining Superstar, that you will be throwing HUGE MONEY at for a long term! Every team would be hesitant to resign a superstar at long term for HUGE cash in this cap era.. especially one who is starting to decline.

-I don't know what you're "huhing" about, he isn't going to take a paycut to come here, so it is going to be a bidding war to get him. He is a good player and feels he deserves the big pay out.

-And you go after FINAL PIECES/BOTTOM 6 PLAYERS/STOP GAPS at the Free Agency, WE are rebuilding.. or is that too much for your brain to take in.. We shouldn't be going all in right now, we are far from ready and this move is idiotic and goes against the plan to pay huge money to a player that isn't going to help you win a cup right now.

- Umm... yes, they are planning a rebuild, and its been pretty clear on it. The plan is pretty obvious.. sign 1 yrs contracts, increase value and trade for picks while our home grown picks develop. Take you're horse blinders off and stop getting distracted by the short cuts.. you were probably the one screaming rebuild like we all were.. now shut up and stick to it.

-Sure Stamkos has earned a contract.. but to play for a team whos close to contending.. Not us, we have a plan to rebuild, he doesn't fit with out plan. Stamkos wants to play CENTER. He will not want to play wing.. we are growing Centers of our own Nylander/Marner/ (and if we are lucky and get Matthews).. and we won't have a spot for them because we are tied up with Stamkos

-......... Is Stamkos getting any younger? of course hes aging. His numbers are going to decline, and he was on a fairly good Tampa team. He isn't going to turn us into a winner on this poor leafs team. We have high quality prospects coming up. why set them back and give us more headaches in the future when we have to sign all the rest.

I'm looking long term and i want us to be in the same sentence as Chicago/Pitts/LA and we do that by growing our own talent.. not grab somebody elses aging talent at a HUGE cost, when we JUST STARTED OUR REBUILD!

Same old leaf fanbase mentality. I'm glad you're not a GM, you'd fit will in the burke era though, so keep trying.

 

[Menzinger]

Throwing it out there -

If the Leafs won 1st overall, and *knew* Stamkos was coming here.

Would you trade Matthews/The pick for an established top pairing right handed defenseman? (or one with potential)

Doughty-Ekblad-Jones (just as examples) - if it was someone like Jones, i'd want a plus and they'd have to take a cap dump. I don't think Ekblad is available (they have great centres in Barkov and Bjugstad already). I'm just spitballing here.

Just want to see what peoples thoughts are on something like this. I don't want to try to fast forward a rebuild but there is a lot of time to go between now and the draft, so it is fun to discuss scenarios.

You draft Matthews without thinking about it, and play Nylander and Marner (or Matthews himself) on the wing.

 

[OvenMittz*]

You draft Matthews without thinking about it, and play Nylander and Marner (or Matthews himself) on the wing.

I'd keep Matthews/Nylander as centers, move Marner to the wing. He's the only one that would be okay with whatever. Matthews is just built for a center position, and Nylander already came out saying he wants to play Center and feels comfortable.

Just thinking about

?/Matthews/Marner
?/Nylander/Brown

Gives me chills.

 

[FlareKnight]

oh i know.

that's why my thing is
is Matthews 100 percent the "right" choice. like. I know this fanbases desire to get a centre. i'm surprise that we haven't deployed brain-wash artists to Edmonton and bamboozle Chia for McDavid yet

But all i've heard from this Puljavaari kid is that he's reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllly good. so is Chychyrun. so my thing is, should there be a debate on who to take (realistically), or is Matthews a given.

I think it's a given. The only way other guys enter the discussion is if we're not picking first (which of course is pretty darn likely ).

I don't think it's center obsession to focus on Matthews as the top pick, the guy is just crazy good. I'm sure wherever we pick this year the Leafs will take the best guy at that spot and not worry about the position. Not a bad thing for there to be a consensus #1.

Of course hard to figure out the right target when we haven't gotten our range narrowed down yet. Near the bottom of the standings, but it's early and not getting blown out constantly. Could be closer to 10th overall once the lotto balls are decided.

 

[Menzinger]

Stamkos hasn't earned a contract?


Stamkos is aging?

Of course he's again -he's a human being just like all of us, and after hitting our prime physical condition in our mid 20s we decline. Forwards tend to have played their best offensive year by age 29, and most have it already happen by the age of 25.

Thinking Stamkos is going to be a 50 goal 90+ point guy while he's with the Leafs is foolhardy in my opinion. There is a very really chance he regresses into a 70-80 point guy. That is a very valuable piece to have on a team - but his cap hit should reflect the type of player he is/will become rather than what he was in his early 20s. I don't want to pay him 11 million, even 10ish million makes me hesitate.

I'm generally supportive of signing Stamkos but Leafs management to do what's best for the team, not Stamkos' bank account. Most recent Stanley cup contenders have won on well balanced salary cap teams.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Of course he's again -he's a human being just like all of us, and after hitting our prime physical condition in our minds 20- we decline. Forwards tend to have played their best offensive year by age 29, and most have it already happen by the age of 25.

Thinking Stamkos is going to be a 50 goal 90+ point guy while he's with the Leafs is foolhardy in my opinion. There is a very really chance he regresses into a 70-80 point guy. That is a very valuable piece to have on a team - but his cap hit should reflect the type of player he is/will become rather than what he was in his early 20s. I don't want to pay him 11 million, even 10ish million makes me hesitate.

I'm generally supportive of signing Stamkos but Leafs management to do what's best for the team, not Stamkos' bank account. Most recent Stanley cup contenders have won on well balanced salary cap teams.

The Blackhawks are an exception, then again they're wizards when it comes to plugging holes after one of their fire sales.