Speculation: Official JT Miller Trade Thread II - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[Boondock]

The irony of this coming from a Canucks fan.

I don't think you understand the word irony. Of course Canuck fans understand wasting inexpensive prime years of your young talented players. We just lived through an 8 year period where some good drafting was overshadowed by abysmal pro scouting, throwing away draft picks, poor trades, a lack of understanding the salary cap, in ability to draft outside of the first round, etc, etc. I would say Vancouver fans would be the most informed about wasting players inexpensive years. That's not called irony, that's called life experience.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

I don't think you understand the word irony. Of course Canuck fans understand wasting inexpensive prime years of your young talented players. We just lived through an 8 year period where some good drafting was overshadowed by abysmal pro scouting, throwing away draft picks, poor trades, a lack of understanding the salary cap, in ability to draft outside of the first round, etc, etc. I would say Vancouver fans would be the most informed about wasting players inexpensive years. That's not called irony, that's called life experience.

It's ironic because nucks fans SHOULD understand that.

 

[seanlinden]

Then we move him next season for the price most have been talking about now, 1st+A prospect. If you want an extra playoff run with him more assets or an upgrade of that prospect needs to happen. No rush to move him.

You realize that plan has very little long term upside, right?

Let's say the package today is a 1st (2022) + a "top prospect", with that top prospect being a player that is currently not in the NHL, and not amongst the top ~15-20 prospects in the league; with no retention.

I think we can all agree that if his play remains the same next year, that with retaining 50%, he'll very likely get a very similar package next year. But....

- What if he gets hurt?

- What if his play declines? (I think most would agree that he's playing just about as well as he can possibly play / doesn't have a ton of upside left)

- What about the fact that Vancouver is pretty young, and now you're looking at a 2023 pick versus a 2022 pick, and a prospect that MIGHT step into your lineup this year, versus a prospect that might step into your lineup next year.

- What about the potential of the Canucks not being in a position to sell next year? Obviously, that's a good outcome in the short term, but from a team-building perspective, you'd much rather be in that position with guys that are in it for the long run. There's also the $5.25m he makes that that the Canucks can invest in somebody who will be there the long term.

Yeah, a young team does need vets to "lead the way", but as young as the Canucks are, they've got other guys who've been around the block. Horvat's 26 with 500+ games, Boeser's 24 with about 300 games over 5 seasons. Pettersson and Garland are all over 200 games now. OEL, Myers and Schenn have been around forever.

 

[Boondock]

Your own coach bashing him after the game in which he didn't get back? Or the Canucks media saying it wasn't a one time thing?

You aren't helping your own cause with this type of hyperbole. He was not bashed, but BB did make a post game comment. He's also said 6495 really positive things about Miller in the 25 games since he was hired - if you want to make a poor argument regarding a very simple comment (I heard it live and again rehashed throughout the week on sports radio), it would only be fair to make similarly inaccurate comments about all the positive things Bruce has said about Miller.

 

[Boondock]

It's ironic because nucks fans SHOULD understand that.

I would say the comment you replayed to clearly stated not making moves could waste the few years MacKinnon has left on his cheap deal - understanding that those deals expire and you can miss your shot if you stand pat. So they do understand and explained it in their post. Again, no irony.

 

[bernmeister]

Acquiring a star at 50% of an already below market value cap hit with an extra year of control improves a team's cap situation. I'd have thought this was obvious.

What is obv is you have ignored many notices by NYR fans that beginning NEXT season, we are cap screwed. We BARELY have room to cover Fox + Zib. And even with letting some guys go, since almost everybody is nmc/ntc, we are likely gonna have to move Lindgren to generate minimal scratch toward LaF, Kakko, blais deals.
As I covered, even IF we did something in the currency NY could handle -- very generous of VAN to do so, and even IF we did Lindgren as part of that to get Miller now, we would then be stuck as to how to come up with cap for Laf, etc.
Until all/most of Trouba's 8m within 2 seasons hence is off and replaced by Schneider elc, we are super cap tight.
Translation: no JT

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

The New York Rangers are not going to trade Lafreniere. period.

That being said, yes, his value (assuming his play remains the same) at 50% retained next year will probably be the same or similar to his value at 0% retained this year.

The question is -- if that's all it's going to be, and all you're looking at is getting projects, do you not want those "projects" a year earlier, while also removing the injury-or-poor play risk factors?

I don’t think the return will be projects. They will be legit assets. Projects are Chytil etc, these assets will be former first rounders that are recent or picks that have maintained their status as top prospects. The contract he has will only be for a certain amount of teams. Miller can be traded to all 32 teams at the draft.

 

[seanlinden]

I don’t think the return will be projects. They will be legit assets. Projects are Chytil etc, these assets will be former first rounders that are recent or picks that have maintained their status as top prospects. The contract he has will only be for a certain amount of teams. Miller can be traded to all 32 teams at the draft.

I guess that comes down to what you consider a "project". To me, a "project" is somebody outside of those top 15-20 prospects league wide, similar stature to what a playoff team's 1st round pick would likely be.

What are you hoping to get in the offseason for a player with 1 year left? Why do you think that would be better?

 

[Canuck86]

Resign him 110%. 5 year deal at the time of signing will take him to 34. Very happy giving him 7 million for 4-5 years

0% chance he signs that short of a deal at that cap hit, keep dreaming. Sadly Horvat probably wants that kind of cap hit, which I would not give him

 

[Canuck86]

It's ironic because nucks fans SHOULD understand that.

When you have an IDIOT GM that happens yup!

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

0% chance he signs that short of a deal at that cap hit, keep dreaming. Sadly Horvat probably wants that kind of cap hit, which I would not give him

Rumor is that we could resign him for 5-6 years around the 7m price range.

 

[bandwagonesque]

What is obv is you have ignored many notices by NYR fans that beginning NEXT season, we are cap screwed.

They're actually almost all from you, and I'm not ignoring them so much as a) observing they consist entirely of lecturing anyone who suggests the Rangers do anything except what you imagine they should do and b) rarely bothering to address them directly because they're didactic, rigid and nonsensical.

We BARELY have room to cover Fox + Zib. And even with letting some guys go, since almost everybody is nmc/ntc, we are likely gonna have to move Lindgren to generate minimal scratch toward LaF, Kakko, blais deals. As I covered, even IF we did something in the currency NY could handle -- very generous of VAN to do so, and even IF we did Lindgren as part of that to get Miller now, we would then be stuck as to how to come up with cap for Laf, etc.
Until all/most of Trouba's 8m within 2 seasons hence is off and replaced by Schneider elc, we are super cap tight.
Translation: no JT

Again -- any team with the opportunity to add a star PPG forward for less than 3M a season can find a way to do so almost regardless of their cap structure. Literally just trading Reaves in the offseason would pay most of Miller's retained salary. Move Nemeth with a 3rd to a cap floor team. Include Chytil in the trade. The ability to acquire a star player makes any of these things worthwhile, even at a cost. I'm not saying the Rangers need to acquire Miller, just that they can. People can look up this stuff on Capfriendly and see you aren't telling the whole story.

 

[Nucklehead Supreme]

Your own coach bashing him after the game in which he didn't get back? Or the Canucks media saying it wasn't a one time thing?

As I thought, one time thing from coach, happens all teh time in the NHL means nothing, media in Vancouver is toxic, maybe don't listen to one time opinions and watch the player yourself?

You seem to be really misinformed.

 

[M2Beezy]

If Joe Sakic is willing, I can see him end up on Colorado. They have the prospects and picks to make a deal work.

Byram, Newhook and a 1st

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

* some of the previous 5-10 cup winners

Post-lockout, it's been a mixed bag. Some teams have done major surgery (Boston, Tampa I). Others have done little to nothing (Anaheim, St. Louis). The bulk have made relatively minor moves, addressing the middle of the lineup in quality. Only L.A. stands out there as a team that paid a significant price for a significant player.

Year	Cup Winner	Notable Mid-season/Deadline Moves
05-06	Carolina	Recchi, Weight
06-07	Anaheim	May
07-08	Detroit	Stuart
08-09	Pittsburgh	Kunitz, Guerin
09-10	Chicago	Johnsson (Didn't play in the playoffs)
10-11	Boston	Kaberle, Kelly, Peverley
11-12	L.A.	Carter
13	Chicago	Handzus
13-14	L.A.	Gaborik
14-15	Chicago	Vermette, Desjardins
15-16	Pittsburgh	Daley, Hagelin, Schultz
16-17	Pittsburgh	Hainsey
17-18	Washington	Kempny
18-19	St. Louis	-
19-20	Tampa	Bogosion, Goodrow, Coleman
21	Tampa	Savard

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1st for a rental in bold

Miller's not a rental so Goodrow and Coleman's situations are quite similar while being far inferior players.

 

[rangersfansince08]

Byram, Newhook and a 1st

LOL. It keeps getting more and more delusional.

 

[Bettman Returnz]

LOL. It keeps getting more and more delusional.

You mean some people…

I am a Canucks fan and know we won’t be getting a byram/ newhook/ Laf/ Rossi/ boldy type. Not to mention 2 + a 1st.

 

[rangersfansince08]

You mean some people…

I am a Canucks fan and know we won’t be getting a byram/ newhook/ Laf/ Rossi/ boldy type. Not to mention 2 + a 1st.

True. Most Canucks fans are reasonable.

To the outliers who think they are getting 2 A prospects plus a 1st I ask if the Canucks were the ones trading for Miller what would you offer? I bet it'd be a lot less than what you think is fair. And when has a guy with 1.5 years ever gotten 2 A+ prospects and first? You've had a shitty GM for years and are trying to rectify years of incompetence in one trade. Get real.

Minnesota can't afford it given their cap.
Rangers aren't close enough to being contenders to do something like that.
And Sakic giving up one elite piece much less two?

 

[arttk]

True. Most Canucks fans are reasonable.

To the outliers who think they are getting 2 A prospects plus a 1st I ask if the Canucks were the ones trading for Miller what would you offer? I bet it'd be a lot less than what you think is fair. And when has a guy with 1.5 years ever gotten 2 A+ prospects and first? You've had a shitty GM for years and are trying to rectify years of incompetence in one trade. Get real.

Minnesota can't afford it given their cap.
Rangers aren't close enough to being contenders to do something like that.
And Sakic giving up one elite piece much less two?

It really depends on how close the team is to the cup. I think there are a lot of chatter on our boards about how we didn’t went all in back in 2011+2012 and what a miss opportunity that was. Personally I don’t think we had the assets back then to go all in but if we had the assets that you guys do, yeah going all in even with prime assets would be something that I would be fine with. Also you have to factor that we never won a cup. Future sustain success is nice, for a team that has won something, but we are not that.

 

[Paddys Pub]

LOL. It keeps getting more and more delusional.

MacKinnon and a 1st plus something small like Byram

 

[oceanchild]

Byram, Newhook and a 1st

As a Canucks fan I would love this, but it seems to be excessive (I’m being nice)

 

[M2Beezy]

As a Canucks fan I would love this, but it seems to be excessive (I’m being nice)

Ok, what if we retaine 15% of Millers contract?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

True. Most Canucks fans are reasonable.

To the outliers who think they are getting 2 A prospects plus a 1st I ask if the Canucks were the ones trading for Miller what would you offer? I bet it'd be a lot less than what you think is fair. And when has a guy with 1.5 years ever gotten 2 A+ prospects and first? You've had a shitty GM for years and are trying to rectify years of incompetence in one trade. Get real.

Minnesota can't afford it given their cap.
Rangers aren't close enough to being contenders to do something like that.
And Sakic giving up one elite piece much less two?

There are a number of Canucks fans who don't know much about the rest of the league and the player they know, and like, is likely to be traded for people they are unfamiliar with, so you hear things like Byram and Newhook.

I think realistic is probably 1st round pick, Schneider, and Chytil or something along those lines. Maybe we retain a bit, or give Motte as well to sweeten the deal a bit.

If Rangers won't make that deal, that's fine. But if we're dealing Miller prior to this deadline instead of waiting until the next one when his value would still be 1st plus good prospect, it has to be for surplus value.

 

[Alluckks]

There are a number of Canucks fans who don't know much about the rest of the league and the player they know, and like, is likely to be traded for people they are unfamiliar with, so you hear things like Byram and Newhook.

I think realistic is probably 1st round pick, Schneider, and Chytil or something along those lines. Maybe we retain a bit, or give Motte as well to sweeten the deal a bit.

If Rangers won't make that deal, that's fine. But if we're dealing Miller prior to this deadline instead of waiting until the next one when his value would still be 1st plus good prospect, it has to be for surplus value.

That still is not realistic.

 

[heisenbergsitti]

As I thought, one time thing from coach, happens all teh time in the NHL means nothing, media in Vancouver is toxic, maybe don't listen to one time opinions and watch the player yourself?

You seem to be really misinformed.

Really?. I can find the article saying it's not 1st time JT Miller has given up on a play, and a bunch of Canucks fans and media saying online to trade him