Speculation: Official JT Miller Trade Thread II - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[bernmeister]

But Vancouver would accept Schneider as PART of a deal. Straight up, one for one, I say no.

fear not Scheneid not available 1:1 or in a package.
NY does not have excess blue chip elcs, other than maybe Jones. And that is generally speaking, not suggesting JT to NY b'c forget anything else, cap.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

But Vancouver would accept Schneider as PART of a deal. Straight up, one for one, I say no.

I'd do Schneider and a 2nd honestly, he is the real deal.

 

[John Johnson]

* some of the previous 5-10 cup winners

Post-lockout, it's been a mixed bag. Some teams have done major surgery (Boston, Tampa I). Others have done little to nothing (Anaheim, St. Louis). The bulk have made relatively minor moves, addressing the middle of the lineup in quality. Only L.A. stands out there as a team that paid a significant price for a significant player.

Year	Cup Winner	Notable Mid-season/Deadline Moves
05-06	Carolina	Recchi, Weight
06-07	Anaheim	May
07-08	Detroit	Stuart
08-09	Pittsburgh	Kunitz, Guerin
09-10	Chicago	Johnsson (Didn't play in the playoffs)
10-11	Boston	Kaberle, Kelly, Peverley
11-12	L.A.	Carter
13	Chicago	Handzus
13-14	L.A.	Gaborik
14-15	Chicago	Vermette, Desjardins
15-16	Pittsburgh	Daley, Hagelin, Schultz
16-17	Pittsburgh	Hainsey
17-18	Washington	Kempny
18-19	St. Louis	-
19-20	Tampa	Bogosion, Goodrow, Coleman
21	Tampa	Savard

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1st for a rental in bold

Thanks for doing this. I still think the chart shows that most of these players acquired went on to be decent depth players if not some playoffs mvp worthy players (with the exception of a few).

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Sounds like Miller's not getting traded.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Sounds like Miller's not getting traded.

Likely.

 

[bandwagonesque]

fear not Scheneid not available 1:1 or in a package.
NY does not have excess blue chip elcs, other than maybe Jones. And that is generally speaking, not suggesting JT to NY b'c forget anything else, cap.

Acquiring a star at 50% of an already below market value cap hit with an extra year of control improves a team's cap situation. I'd have thought this was obvious.

 

[Ciao]

* some of the previous 5-10 cup winners

Post-lockout, it's been a mixed bag. Some teams have done major surgery (Boston, Tampa I). Others have done little to nothing (Anaheim, St. Louis). The bulk have made relatively minor moves, addressing the middle of the lineup in quality. Only L.A. stands out there as a team that paid a significant price for a significant player.

Year	Cup Winner	Notable Mid-season/Deadline Moves
05-06	Carolina	Recchi, Weight
06-07	Anaheim	May
07-08	Detroit	Stuart
08-09	Pittsburgh	Kunitz, Guerin
09-10	Chicago	Johnsson (Didn't play in the playoffs)
10-11	Boston	Kaberle, Kelly, Peverley
11-12	L.A.	Carter
13	Chicago	Handzus
13-14	L.A.	Gaborik
14-15	Chicago	Vermette, Desjardins
15-16	Pittsburgh	Daley, Hagelin, Schultz
16-17	Pittsburgh	Hainsey
17-18	Washington	Kempny
18-19	St. Louis	-
19-20	Tampa	Bogosion, Goodrow, Coleman
21	Tampa	Savard

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

1st for a rental in bold

That's a great chart.

There really aren't that many Cup champions that have made a big purchase at the TDL. Some, but not all or even most.

I really don't think it's always necessary to really "load up" for a Cup run. "Tune up", sure, but probably not much more than routine maintenance of the roster.

There are exceptions both ways, but it's not something you always have to do, even if others do it too.

 

[Ciao]

Acquiring a star at 50% of an already below market value cap hit improves a team's cap situation. I'd have though this was obvious.

Sure, but at what expense to the team's long-term growth and development?

You can't get ahead if you're always borrowing against thet credit card!

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Value is not in a vacuum. Eichel is a a franchise-altering #1C, who is 25 years old, and locked up for 4 full seasons. He likely has the potential to be the best player on the best team in the league. When getting Jack Eichel, teams are absolutely going to be willing to part with "franchise futures" (regardless of risky surgery) because he is and can be a cornerstone player for that franchise.

All due respect in the world to JT Miller, but he is not that, and never will be that. On a really good team, he should probably be the 3rd or 4th best forward. He's versatile enough that a ton of teams would love to add him at the deadline, but every year there are a couple of guys available at the deadline that can bring similar things to what he can.

Obviously, if the Canucks wait a year and he's playing just as well at the deadline next year, he'll get a 1st + pretty good prospect with them likely retaining 50% on the deal. Trading him this year, should be able to get a similar / slightly better package with no retention, as his contract is pretty good, or perhaps you can "double up" -- retain both years, and get packges that include a 1st rd pick plus a recent 1st, or a prospect who's taken some really positive steps towards becoming an NHLer since being drafted.

That being said... just because somebody might give you 2 1sts, or a 1st and a 1st-equivalent prospect; doesn't mean they're going to give you a guy they view as a likely top tier player for them (a la Rossi, Newhook, Byram)

Teams are going to give up “franchise altering” prospects for Eichel? Your other Minnesota poster just said that Callen Addison was off the table for Eichel so this constant contradiction isn’t going to work for discussion, zero point of continuing it. Canucks have zero reason to trade Miller unless we’re getting a Rossi/Schneider/Newhook player in return. He’s 28 years old and locked up for another year after this one. I’d love to keep him actually and move Horvat/Boeser instead.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

You are not getting Rossi. Keep trying.

Thanks Bill Guerin

 

[John Mandalorian]

Teams are going to give up “franchise altering” prospects for Eichel? Your other Minnesota poster just said that Callen Addison was off the table for Eichel so this constant contradiction isn’t going to work for discussion, zero point of continuing it. Canucks have zero reason to trade Miller unless we’re getting a Rossi/Schneider/Newhook player in return. He’s 28 years old and locked up for another year after this one. I’d love to keep him actually and move Horvat/Boeser instead.

Do you honestly think his contract length works in Vancouver's favor when you're talking about prospects like this?

 

[heisenbergsitti]

Lil you and others still don’t get it hey? Miller has the same if not more value than Eichel did when he got traded. Eichel had very dangerous surgery and his career can end with just one more injury there. He’s also making double of what JT Miller is and specifically had a handful of places he wanted to go to. And your statement is simply not true. If Addison wasn’t available for Eichel then YIKES on Guerin. That’s brutal. Tuch+Krebs+1st is also literally a top 6 young powerforward a top prospect and a 1st. That’s a solid package almost identical to Rossi+Lambos+Addison. Not to mention only 2 teams had enough cap that were interested. Stop making this garbage comparison.

point 2: Way to overreact and blow it out of proportion. Bruce made a comment that he’d talk to Miller after an overtime effort. Nobody said he has a bad look of always not going back for the play

He doesn't have the same value, or more than eichel! Canucks fans like yourself are going to be extremely surprised. If he was, a team would have paid this. You are blind to the 1.5 years he has left, along with the character issues bruce, and Canadian media was bashing him for. Lil you? Cute that you go straight to name calling. wild were never trading Rossi, Calen addison, and Carson lambos, and sure as heck aren't trading Calen addison or Rossi for JT Miller.

 

[heisenbergsitti]

Care to provide a source for this?

Your own coach bashing him after the game in which he didn't get back? Or the Canucks media saying it wasn't a one time thing?

 

[seanlinden]

Teams are going to give up “franchise altering” prospects for Eichel? Your other Minnesota poster just said that Callen Addison was off the table for Eichel so this constant contradiction isn’t going to work for discussion, zero point of continuing it. Canucks have zero reason to trade Miller unless we’re getting a Rossi/Schneider/Newhook player in return. He’s 28 years old and locked up for another year after this one. I’d love to keep him actually and move Horvat/Boeser instead.

Just because Eichel could command franchise-altering prospects, doesn't mean that makes sense for every team shopping for a C. For Minnesota it didn't make sense. They have impending cap-hell with Parise & Suter. To get these calibre of prospects, you need to trade a player that is a) worth trading those kind of prospects for and b) find a team that needs / can fit that player and has those prospects to trade.

Help me understand... let's assume those 3 guys are off the table for Miller... what is Vancouver's better alternative???

Do you believe he's re-signing? Do you really want to re-sign him at 30 years old?

Do you believe a better deal is coming in the offseason? If so, who?

Do you believe a better deal is coming next deadline?

 

[Bettman Returnz]

Sounds like Miller's not getting traded.

If he does get traded it’s because management for the sense he wouldn’t resign.

 

[Buresflyingelbow]

Vancouver would be wise from now until his contract is up to hold on to him until the trade is a no brainer. Next deadline it seems his value would be just as much due to him being a UFA. If the first round pick is the biggest asset in the trade then just wait, because he will get that next deadline bare minimum. It would also give your new team time to evaluate and have scouting firing on all cylinders due to more time.
Miller won’t be traded unless a sure fire top Prospect is involved like Schneider, Newhook, Rossi. I personally see NYR giving up Lafrenier when it’s all said and done due to Schneider being viewed higher at this point. NYR are between a rock and a hard place on his next contract and if he performs great in the playoffs it might not even be worth it.
I imagine Canucks add a bit due to pedigree as former #1 overall. Maybe allow Rangers to attach a contract or flip a player like Hoglander in the deal. Something like

Lafrenier and Chytil
Miller and Hoglander.

 

[rocketdan9]

JT Miller for Lafreniere... is the only way I see the Canucks greenlighting the trade

 

[Canadian Canuck]

He doesn't have the same value, or more than eichel! Canucks fans like yourself are going to be extremely surprised. If he was, a team would have paid this. You are blind to the 1.5 years he has left, along with the character issues bruce, and Canadian media was bashing him for. Lil you? Cute that you go straight to name calling. wild were never trading Rossi, Calen addison, and Carson lambos, and sure as heck aren't trading Calen addison or Rossi for JT Miller.

I clearly meant “Lol” not “Lil” my friend.

You’re crazy if you honestly think Addison wasn’t on the table for Jack Eichel. Probably the wildest thing I’ve ever heard in my Decade on these boards. Yikes

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Just because Eichel could command franchise-altering prospects, doesn't mean that makes sense for every team shopping for a C. For Minnesota it didn't make sense. They have impending cap-hell with Parise & Suter. To get these calibre of prospects, you need to trade a player that is a) worth trading those kind of prospects for and b) find a team that needs / can fit that player and has those prospects to trade.

Help me understand... let's assume those 3 guys are off the table for Miller... what is Vancouver's better alternative???

Do you believe he's re-signing? Do you really want to re-sign him at 30 years old?

Do you believe a better deal is coming in the offseason? If so, who?

Do you believe a better deal is coming next deadline?

Resign him 110%. 5 year deal at the time of signing will take him to 34. Very happy giving him 7 million for 4-5 years

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Thanks Bill Guerin

Doesn't take Bill Guerim to know there's not a f***ing chance you are getting Rossi pure delusion.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Doesn't take Bill Guerim to know there's not a f***ing chance you are getting Rossi pure delusion.

Sick you’re not getting JT Miller then? Canucks can ask for whatever tf they want if nobody meets it they’ll gladly keep JT Delusional if you think they’ll settle.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Resign him 110%. 5 year deal at the time of signing will take him to 34. Very happy giving him 7 million for 4-5 years

If Miller was willing to sign for 4-5 years for $7M AAV there would be no talk of moving him.

 

[seanlinden]

Resign him 110%. 5 year deal at the time of signing will take him to 34. Very happy giving him 7 million for 4-5 years

And what if he's already expressed the view that he may not be all that happy in Van, and doesn't really have any interest in resigning?

 

[seanlinden]

Vancouver would be wise from now until his contract is up to hold on to him until the trade is a no brainer. Next deadline it seems his value would be just as much due to him being a UFA. If the first round pick is the biggest asset in the trade then just wait, because he will get that next deadline bare minimum. It would also give your new team time to evaluate and have scouting firing on all cylinders due to more time.
Miller won’t be traded unless a sure fire top Prospect is involved like Schneider, Newhook, Rossi. I personally see NYR giving up Lafrenier when it’s all said and done due to Schneider being viewed higher at this point. NYR are between a rock and a hard place on his next contract and if he performs great in the playoffs it might not even be worth it.
I imagine Canucks add a bit due to pedigree as former #1 overall. Maybe allow Rangers to attach a contract or flip a player like Hoglander in the deal. Something like

Lafrenier and Chytil
Miller and Hoglander.

The New York Rangers are not going to trade Lafreniere. period.

That being said, yes, his value (assuming his play remains the same) at 50% retained next year will probably be the same or similar to his value at 0% retained this year.

The question is -- if that's all it's going to be, and all you're looking at is getting projects, do you not want those "projects" a year earlier, while also removing the injury-or-poor play risk factors?

 

[Canadian Canuck]

And what if he's already expressed the view that he may not be all that happy in Van, and doesn't really have any interest in resigning?

Then we move him next season for the price most have been talking about now, 1st+A prospect. If you want an extra playoff run with him more assets or an upgrade of that prospect needs to happen. No rush to move him.