Official 2015 tank thread IV

[Sabretooth]

Thats whats been going on? I could have sworn it has a lot of raging and carrying on about the Sabres defying reality and math. Don't recall if you were one of them but thats what the bulk of the posts were. And no one is surprised they are struggling and playing as poorly as they are right now. The team finally found a structure that worked for them anchored by this top 6. Moulson/Girgs/Ennis and Flynn/Mitchell/Gionta. The defense emerged with a good top 4. Myers anchored the top pair playing huge minutes. Zads emerged and paired with Risto made an effective 2nd pairing. Obvious the other benefit was others like Mess and Benoit played less or not at all.

That structure has been blown apart but injuries and illness. Thats why we are struggling and playing horribly right now and why few should be surprised by it.


For comparions sake.

During that 13gm run where we went 10-3-0, with that structure in place. We scored 33 goals (2.54 goals for/game) and gave up 29 goals (2.33 goals against/game).

Starting with Mitchell leaving the lineup for the last 9gms, Myers last 7, Gionta/Foligno last 6.

In the last 9gms we've scored 15 goals (1.67 goals for/game) and gave up 41 goals (4.56 goals against/game).

I recall the ranting and raging about "ruining the tank!", "The tank is over!", "Murray is a failure", "Trade myers/enroth/anyone!", etc.

And then I recall me and others telling people to relax, that the sabres are just getting unexpectedly good results based on their play, its not sustainable, stats still show how the sabres are by far the worst team in the league, wait to see how fast we drop when: enroth cools down, injuries hit, we stop scoring 3 goals on 15 shots, other teams' goaltending is better than .750 in games against us, etc. And now, we've had some injuries to key players (unfortunate, but not unexpected. Every team deals with injuries throughout the season), enroth has posted a .871 sv % over his last 5 starts, and girgs for example is only shooting at a still not bad but more realistic 8.3% shooting percentage over his last 10 games rather than his all-star level 14.1% season average.

And of course whenever any of that was mentioned over the past few weeks, it was met with a mocking chorus of "guess advance stats are wrong", "watch the game!", "shot quality!", "Team defense!", "Keeping shots to the outside!", "Enroth is playing sustainably because his season average is sustainable!", "Won again? I thought advanced stats said we should lose! I thought this was unsustainable ", etc. Those were all things I remember people saying and are the only ranting and raving I remember.

Yeah we've had some injuries/illnesses but they've been pretty mild compared to a lot of other teams. Nothing that a good team wouldn't expect to deal with over the course of a season. Yeah we did have a good thing going. Nolan pretty much had the team set up to get the absolute most out of it anyone could (and thats a compliment considering I've never thought nolan was anything special), but everyone should have been able to see how fragile it was. It was a house of cards and it was never going to take very much to knock down. Most other teams could take the injuries we've had in stride without completely falling apart. We don't have the depth and experience, and injuries have always been part of the consideration (at least from my viewpoint) when discussing the tank and not worrying about it.

For comparions sake.

During that 13gm run where we went 10-3-0, with that structure in place. We scored 33 goals (2.54 goals for/game) and gave up 29 goals (2.33 goals against/game).

Shots for: 309 (23.8/game)
Shots against: 448 (34.5/game)

Starting with Mitchell leaving the lineup for the last 9gms, Myers last 7, Gionta/Foligno last 6.

In the last 9gms we've scored 15 goals (1.67 goals for/game) and gave up 41 goals (4.56 goals against/game).

Shots for: 214 (23.7/game)
Shots against: 303 (33.7/game)

We're not shooting less or giving up more shots per game now after the injuries compared to during the 13 game run. What would you say accounts for the fact that fewer of our shots are going in, while more of our opponent shots are going in? If injuries were the sole responsibility, I'd suspect that would show up in giving up more shots while taking fewer, but that is not the case.

 

[sabregoon]

See this is what happens when your SV% and SH% come back down to Earth. I see a lot more losses in our future. We look completely lost again like we did to start the year.

Oh and yeah our uhhh "compete" is lacking... You got it Teddy

 

[Beerz]

Nobody felt the Sabres play was sustainable in here ... the issue was picking up worthless points that would come back to bite us in the ass at a later date ... None of that has changed imo .. Yeah the deficit has been cut but until we've locked up 30th those worthless points are a problem.

The only ones that felt the play was sustainable were the ones making playoff threads.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Nobody felt the Sabres play was sustainable in here ... the issue was picking up worthless points that would come back to bite us in the ass at a later date ... None of that has changed imo .. Yeah the deficit has been cut but until we've locked up 30th those worthless points are a problem.

The only ones that felt the play was sustainable were the ones making playoff threads.

The playoff thread was to mock you and a few others who gripe and complain about apparently "your" team winning a few games. We wanted to have fun with the rare wins and we did at your expense. Thank you.

 

[Beerz]

The playoff thread was too mock you and a few others who gripe and complain about apparently "your" team winning a few games.

So trolling.

Got it.

 

[Sabre the Win]

So trolling.

Got it.

Not like you don't troll every GDT posting glee posts excited about a loss.

 

[Beerz]

Not like you don't troll every GDT posting glee posts excited about a loss.

I don't.

Bout the only thing I say in GDT is about loser points.

I come in here and gloat about loses.

 

[RecycledEichel]

We aren't a lock for 30th place, even after this past stretch.. The 10 wins in 13 games may come back bite us, which would definitely suck..

 

[Bps21*]

Its the shootout wins. Stop winning shootouts

 

[couture23]

Its the shootout wins. Stop winning shootouts

Can we protest this in front of the NHL headquarters?

 

[slip]

We aren't a lock for 30th place, even after this past stretch.. The 10 wins in 13 games may come back bite us, which would definitely suck..

When I start to lose the faith, I just glance at our goal differential.

 

[BornBuffaloFan]

I think we should trade Myers lol... his return may hurt us

 

[Zip15]

I think we should trade Myers lol... his return may hurt us

Don't need to do that. Trading Enroth should be sufficient. He's shown a couple times that he can go on tears for weeks at a time. Neuvy is a bit more steady, IMO, even if not as spectacular when he's on. Play Neuvy and Hackett and don't let either get into a groove. That should be enough.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Don't need to do that. Trading Enroth should be sufficient. He's shown a couple times that he can go on tears for weeks at a time. Neuvy is a bit more steady, IMO, even if not as spectacular when he's on. Play Neuvy and Hackett and don't let either get into a groove. That should be enough.

The problem is, I don't think there's much of a market at all for Enroth. The goaltender market is saturated and he's tiny compared to almost all other goaltenders, which is a big deal in the "bigger is better" era of goaltending. I can't imagine TM is getting any offers for him. He's probably waiting/hoping for a team to get an injury going into the playoffs, to take advantage of the desperation. Which might never happen. I don't think there's any shortcut to tanking than just getting lucky (or "unlucky") and losing key games with what we have until the deadline.

 

[Beerz]

Friedman mentioned Minny as possibly being interested in Enroth.

 

[Husko]

Friedman mentioned Minny as possibly being interested in Enroth.

Enroth + UFA of their choice + Islanders second round pick for their first? The thought of them falling off the wagon and giving us another top 10 pick just makes me giddy with excitement

 

[Zip15]

The problem is, I don't think there's much of a market at all for Enroth. The goaltender market is saturated and he's tiny compared to almost all other goaltenders, which is a big deal in the "bigger is better" era of goaltending. I can't imagine TM is getting any offers for him. He's probably waiting/hoping for a team to get an injury going into the playoffs, to take advantage of the desperation. Which might never happen. I don't think there's any shortcut to tanking than just getting lucky (or "unlucky") and losing key games with what we have until the deadline.

There probably isn't much of a market for him. I think Dallas makes some sense, though, even if it'd reunite the dreaded Ruff/Enroth relationship. Also, Tim could package him with one of our UFA forwards for a backup upgrade. It's all in the marketing. Enroth has a very good ESSV%. Low-end starter material in that regard. He'd help an acquiring team.

 

[joshjull]

Friedman mentioned Minny as possibly being interested in Enroth.

That makes sense. If they have a potential achilles heel its their goaltending. It did them in against Chicago in the playoffs last year. Not sure if Enroth would be the answer but it would make sense they would be kicking the tires on acquiring him.

 

[Zip15]

Enroth + UFA of their choice + Islanders second round pick for their first? The thought of them falling off the wagon and giving us another top 10 pick just makes me giddy with excitement

I can't imagine that'd get us a 1st round pick in this draft. Two impending UFAs, neither of whom would be that great, and a pick in the final 1/3 of the 2nd? Nah.

 

[TehDoak]

Friedman mentioned Minny as possibly being interested in Enroth.

This was denied by both sides as of yesterday? Really seems like "Minny needs a goalie! Buffalo has UFA goalies!"

Enroth + UFA of their choice + Islanders second round pick for their first? The thought of them falling off the wagon and giving us another top 10 pick just makes me giddy with excitement

They were interested in Stafford a few years back before grabbing pominville.

 

[Beerz]

Enroth + UFA of their choice + Islanders second round pick for their first? The thought of them falling off the wagon and giving us another top 10 pick just makes me giddy with excitement

Friedman also mentioned that Ninny wasn't interested in giving up their 1st round pick at all.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

I doubt Enroth would return much, and if he's not traded I'd rather re-sign him to a 2-3 yr deal, at around 3 mil per. Buffalo is going to need a vet goalie as either a starter, split-duty, or back-up. Why not just stick with a guy who's been with the team and performed well enough to earn another contract? I don't think he'll have that much effect on the tank, and even if he did I think he's worth keeping for at least a few more years until Ullmark or (fill in the blank) can take over as a starter.

I'd rather trade Neuvirth and take the lesser return, or whatever he can get in a package deal.

 

[SabresFanNorthPortFL]

I doubt Enroth would return much, and if he's not traded I'd rather re-sign him to a 2-3 yr deal, at around 3 mil per. Buffalo is going to need a vet goalie as either a starter, split-duty, or back-up. Why not just stick with a guy who's been with the team and performed well enough to earn another contract? I don't think he'll have that much effect on the tank, and even if he did I think he's worth keeping for at least a few more years until Ullmark or (fill in the blank) can take over as a starter.

I'd rather trade Neuvirth and take the lesser return, or whatever he can get in a package deal.

The issue to me is that this is the last year to purposefully stink. Next year we are (or should be) trying to win. With that said, we no longer should be looking at stop-gaps, etc. So you are either going with Enroth, as he's earned the right in Buffalo to be their starter, or not.

Personally, I'm not sold on him being a deep playoff goalie, nor do I think TMGM does too (again, I do not know him personally, it's just an opinion based on his "big goalies" statement.). I'd rather keep Neuvi as the backup and go after a starter, ala Neimi in FA.

As a Buffalo fan, I have a chip on my shoulder about being pushed around, so I do not want the "smallest" goalie in the NHL. He's been very good but he still leaves the top of the net open when he goes down. Skill wise, Enroth is very good but he's just too damn small.

 

[stokes84]

The issue to me is that this is the last year to purposefully stink. Next year we are (or should be) trying to win. With that said, we no longer should be looking at stop-gaps, etc. So you are either going with Enroth, as he's earned the right in Buffalo to be their starter, or not.

Personally, I'm not sold on him being a deep playoff goalie, nor do I think TMGM does too (again, I do not know him personally, it's just an opinion based on his "big goalies" statement.). I'd rather keep Neuvi as the backup and go after a starter, ala Neimi in FA.

As a Buffalo fan, I have a chip on my shoulder about being pushed around, so I do not want the "smallest" goalie in the NHL. He's been very good but he still leaves the top of the net open when he goes down. Skill wise, Enroth is very good but he's just too damn small.

What does a small goalie have to do with getting pushed around? I don't get it.

 

[Ralonzo]

What does a small goalie have to do with getting pushed around? I don't get it.