Official 2015 tank thread IV

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Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
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Oh wait the Kings 4th overall pick did what? I'll obviously give you that Schenn helped bring in a core, but my point isnt that drafting high isn't the way to build, I'm saying i have a problem with people who are spouting doom and gloom like if we don't land Mceichel we are forever banished to be a horrible franchise. We're currently in line to get a top 5 pick easy, which obviously I'm a fan of. Where did I say that I'm for keeping middling players and hoping to win???? Don't put words in my mouth. When did I say I want a rebuild through winning?

Hawks? Toews was a 3rd overall pick which some posters seem to think will be the end all of our rebuild if we pick at that number. (it's our current draft place too)

Where was all of Boston's top draft picks when they won? Seguin? hardly a force during that year. I'll give you the penguins, I'm obviously not saying you cannot build a winning team through 1st overall draft picks, Detroit? Anaheim? I'm just saying if you're just looking for a phenomenal talent, great, if you're interested in cups, simply having the first overall pick isn't the end all of strategies. We already have a fantastic core in place, one that I believe can win cups if properly developed.

Developing talent and tanking for this year aren't mutually exclusive. Ristolainen, Girgensons, and Zadarov are getting better. Grigorenko and Armia look good in Rochester. Pysyk still looks solid. Myers is better and Ennis looks like he could be a part of the future team. Reinhart, Fasching, Compher, and many of the prospects not in the AHL yet look on track.

The only real regression is Hodgson.

Most of these players are so young that this one season of tanking won't matter. Especially since most of them aren't even on the Sabres.
 

Heraldic

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Dec 12, 2013
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Pittsburgh intentionally tanked for Lemieux. Their culture was just fine. If culture is a problem after the tank this year, you start to fix it right after you make the first selection in the first round.

Losing itself doesn't create a "losing culture". What creates a losing culture are the habits, examples etc. which lead to losing.

If team is just platantly talentless and they lose, it doesn't create a "losing culture", because their everyday action could be top notch, but they don't just have the talent. When you insert the talent to the top notch everyday action, you create a "culture of winning".

For example, Edmonton seems to be a team with the talent but not the everyday action. We, however, seem to be more the team that lacks the talent. Of course it's not that black and white, but I'm not worried about our culture. The examples of Zadorov, Grigorenko and Armia adapting the right attitude show a lot of promise.
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
18,135
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Losing itself doesn't create a "losing culture". What creates a losing culture are the habits, examples etc. which lead to losing.

If team is just platantly talentless and they lose, it doesn't create a "losing culture", because their everyday action could be top notch, but they don't just have the talent. When you insert the talent to the top notch everyday action, you create a "culture of winning".

For example, Edmonton seems to be a team with the talent but not the everyday action. We, however, seem to be more the team that lacks the talent. Of course it's not that black and white, but I'm not worried about our culture. The examples of Zadorov, Grigorenko and Armia adapting the right attitude show a lot of promise.

Agree
 

BornBuffaloFan

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Nov 30, 2014
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losing culture is the stupidest thing i have ever heard in sports


it is my culture to eat pasta. I didn't eat pasta last year yet still italian

bring in talent, and our "culture" will be winners



see: corsi
 

BornBuffaloFan

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Nov 30, 2014
349
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Pittsburgh intentionally tanked for Lemieux. Their culture was just fine. If culture is a problem after the tank this year, you start to fix it right after you make the first selection in the first round.

exactly… Pitt was so bad they were on the verge of losing the franchise

yet, Pitt got talent (Lemieux and Crosby) and here we are, hockey's version of Peyton and Luck… Indi was terrible before Peyton
 

Mattilaus

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Sep 12, 2014
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I am confused as to why people who do not like the tank are coming into a thread they know is specifically pro-tanking and then complaining there are pro-tankers in it.
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
16,783
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In the Panderverse
What does that make Benoit ?


Sgt. Kurt Knispel – Germany’s WWII Top Tank Ace – Not only was Sgt. Knispel Germany’s top tank ace, he is credited with being the top tank ace in history. He began as a tank loader and eventually became a gunner and then a commander. His official kill record stands at 168. His most remarkable kill was a hit he made on a T-34 tank almost two miles away.


Benoit = Knispel
I love learning from everyone here!!!!

@BNHarrington's idiotic twitter feed said:
rabble rabble
And 3 minutes later...

@BNHarrington's idiotic twitter feed said:
bi-polar response
I love how professional journalism is literally whining about fans on your twitter feed.
How is twitter journalism? It's equivalent to the stock market ticker tape: (bid, ask) or (open, close, change) or the ESPN screen crawl. Not poking you, poking the concept of twitter.

Paraphrasing my GF's father: "All this life-changing technology, and too much of it is pictures of what people ate for lunch."

Losing itself doesn't create a "losing culture". What creates a losing culture are the habits, examples etc. which lead to losing.

If team is just platantly talentless and they lose, it doesn't create a "losing culture", because their everyday action could be top notch, but they don't just have the talent. When you insert the talent to the top notch everyday action, you create a "culture of winning".

For example, Edmonton seems to be a team with the talent but not the everyday action. We, however, seem to be more the team that lacks the talent. Of course it's not that black and white, but I'm not worried about our culture. The examples of Zadorov, Grigorenko and Armia adapting the right attitude show a lot of promise.
Nice post, Heraldic. This should be stickied, and adopted as the tank watch manifesto.

They can still turn this around and make a run for 8th.
Not sure if serious... but I LOVE LOVE LOVE the avatar.

I am confused as to why people who do not like the tank are coming into a thread they know is specifically pro-tanking and then complaining there are pro-tankers in it.
Our nickname for people of that persuasion (and also the alternate nickname for the NHL team in Edmonton) is "Landmines"
 

Keaganizer

Registered User
Dec 29, 2013
115
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I am confused as to why people who do not like the tank are coming into a thread they know is specifically pro-tanking and then complaining there are pro-tankers in it.

I did not say I am anti-tank. Read what I ****ing said. I'm against the notion that if we don't end up top 2 in the draft we are a failure of a tank. I don't agree with intentionally trading away players ONLY for the reason to make us worse. We're a bad enough team right now. We're already well on our way to tanking and a good draft pick will be had. I'm not anti tank- I've embraced the suck.
 

Mattilaus

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Sep 12, 2014
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I did not say I am anti-tank. Read what I ****ing said. I'm against the notion that if we don't end up top 2 in the draft we are a failure of a tank. I don't agree with intentionally trading away players ONLY for the reason to make us worse. We're a bad enough team right now. We're already well on our way to tanking and a good draft pick will be had. I'm not anti tank- I've embraced the suck.

There is really no need to direct profanity at me for the single post I made in which I posed a question. You need to relax buddy.
 

SabresFanNorthPortFL

Registered User
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Aug 9, 2007
2,552
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North Port, FL
losing culture is the stupidest thing i have ever heard in sports


it is my culture to eat pasta. I didn't eat pasta last year yet still italian

bring in talent, and our "culture" will be winners



see: corsi

I tend to disagree....and every Buffalo sports fan should know it.

Example:

Pretty much through the 70's and 80's the Bills sucked. It wasn't until Polian was hired that the team changed. Polian changed the "loosing culture" of the team. He left during the Super Bowl run and the team has never been the same since.

Maybe it's the term but there is something to be said about excepting loosing. We just had a "talented" core but no "heart." No will to win, no fire, whatever you want to call it, there are some that except loosing and then there are guys like Girgensons who will do whatever it takes to win. Hopefully, Murray is a winner and will not except players except loosing because it starts from the top and trickles down, not the other way around.
 

sabregoon

Registered User
Nov 7, 2014
161
0
Buffalo
I tend to disagree....and every Buffalo sports fan should know it.

Example:

Pretty much through the 70's and 80's the Bills sucked. It wasn't until Polian was hired that the team changed. Polian changed the "loosing culture" of the team. He left during the Super Bowl run and the team has never been the same since.

Maybe it's the term but there is something to be said about excepting loosing. We just had a "talented" core but no "heart." No will to win, no fire, whatever you want to call it, there are some that except loosing and then there are guys like Girgensons who will do whatever it takes to win. Hopefully, Murray is a winner and will not except players except loosing because it starts from the top and trickles down, not the other way around.
Polian changed the culture because he brought in better players. Murray is in the process of doing that. In a few years when Zemgus Samson and Rasmus are wearing the letters and are the leaders of this team our "culture" will get better because we will be winning. We won't be winning because our culture got better.
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
18,135
14,986
Cair Paravel
I tend to disagree....and every Buffalo sports fan should know it.

Example:

Pretty much through the 70's and 80's the Bills sucked. It wasn't until Polian was hired that the team changed. Polian changed the "loosing culture" of the team. He left during the Super Bowl run and the team has never been the same since.

Maybe it's the term but there is something to be said about excepting loosing. We just had a "talented" core but no "heart." No will to win, no fire, whatever you want to call it, there are some that except loosing and then there are guys like Girgensons who will do whatever it takes to win. Hopefully, Murray is a winner and will not except players except loosing because it starts from the top and trickles down, not the other way around.

Polian took over right after they drafted Bruce Smith. He then convinced Jim Kelly to come to Buffalo. And then he drafted Andre Reed, Shane Conlan, Nate Odomes, Will Wolford, Howard Ballard, Thurman Thomas, Jeff Wright, Leon Seals, Henry Jones, Phil Hansen, Don Beebe, Al Edwards, Keith McKeller, Marvcus Patton, and John Fina. He traded for Cornelius Bennett.

Culture improved because he drafted good players who were winners. Polian didn't bring in a culture that transformed those players into something more.

The Bills began going downhill went Kelly retired. Most of the roster left. Most of the stars were replaced in some way. Kelly was never replaced.

Getting McDavid, Eichel, Marner, Hanifin, etc. to go with Reinhart, Girgensons, Myers, Ristolainen, and Zadarov is way more important. It's not like any of those guys are sea-slugs. They work hard. There's a few great future leaders in that group. The culture will be fine.
 

Bps21*

Guest
Losing culture is the dumbest thing. The penguins had a losing culture until they got great players and won two cups. Then they had another losing culture. They got great players and won another one.

We have a buffalo culture. Never bad enough to draft actual great players. Which in this sport especially...it's the top picks. Never good enough to win a championship. Strangely history overwhelmingly shows that getting actual great players helps you achieve the second one.

That's the culture we changed. We are going to have actual great players. Then something really weird is going to happen to our losing culture.

This is how the sausage gets made. It's disgusting, you don't want to look at it...and you'll swear you'll never be able to eat it again. But when it's finished...it's ****ing delicious.
 
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BornBuffaloFan

Registered User
Nov 30, 2014
349
0
Losing culture is the dumbest thing. The penguins had a losing culture until they got great players and won two cups. Then they had another losing culture. They got great players and won another one.

We have a buffalo culture. Never bad enough to draft actual great players. Which in this sport especially...it's the top picks. Never good enough to win a championship. Strangely history overwhelmingly shows that getting actual great players helps you achieve the second one.

That's the culture we changed. We are going to have actual great players. Then something really weird is going to happen to our losing culture.

lol… buffalo culture is that we either don't win enough, or we don't lose enough

we are bad at both
 

BornBuffaloFan

Registered User
Nov 30, 2014
349
0
I tend to disagree....and every Buffalo sports fan should know it.

Example:

Pretty much through the 70's and 80's the Bills sucked. It wasn't until Polian was hired that the team changed. Polian changed the "loosing culture" of the team. He left during the Super Bowl run and the team has never been the same since.

Maybe it's the term but there is something to be said about excepting loosing. We just had a "talented" core but no "heart." No will to win, no fire, whatever you want to call it, there are some that except loosing and then there are guys like Girgensons who will do whatever it takes to win. Hopefully, Murray is a winner and will not except players except loosing because it starts from the top and trickles down, not the other way around.

There has never been, in the history of sports, where culture won a championship without talent…
 
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