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Off-Season Roster Thread #2 -- Nothing to do but wait

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Matt Ress said:
I strongly dislike Kadri. With my personal opinion out of the way, I don't think he'll be worth the contract he gets. He'd add a great element to the forward group maybe but is looking to cash in on his last big contract using a career year as validation. Those guys always scream buyer beware to me.
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Absolutely.

Kadri is one of the guys that some GM will give a regrettable contract to this summer.
 
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Fjordy said:
Also, no one bothers you to make an trade after opening a free agency. If Adams wants Campbell or Husso why not try? Most teams simply won't be able to offer good terms to these goalies due to the cap limitation.
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If that is what he wants to do, he should trade for their rights before free agency and get it done.

The number of teams needing a goalie exceeds the number of goalies available by a bit.

With the goalie position, Adams will need be hyper aggressive about getting it done.
 
elchud said:
PK hasn't been a top pair defenseman in 4 seasons. Last year he was bad. 3rd pairing guy who isn't that good defensively. I dont see how he is a good fit. There are better veteran D adds. If he had injury issues maybe that can explain why he was awful last year.
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P.K. is what he is at this point which is a 3rd pairing Dman. He was generally fine defensively this past season in that role. He was also exceptionally good on the penalty kill when he was actually given the minutes. His 5v5 Corsi was 51%, Fenwick was 50% which is fine for a 3rd pairing defenseman, on the penalty kill his Corsi was 24% and Fenwick was 23% which is actually outstanding and it's surprising they didn't give him more minutes there.

He was notably awful on the powerplay, as was the rest of the team for the most part. With Dahlin and Power there would be no need for him to log powerplay time in Buffalo. He would be absolutely fine as a 3rd pairing guy.

My main questions around Subban would be in the locker room. He was noted as being a problem in the Montreal locker room, and also somewhat in Nashville. Haven't really heard anything about him being a bad locker room presence in Jersey however and I do wonder if there are anything to those rumors, and if so has he changed since then and grown a bit.
 
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I remember when the Vanek, Roy, Pominville teams couldn't get past the first round a decade ago, and then struggled to even get into the playoffs. There were rumors of a bad locker room culture. Some denied that mattered.

Fast forward to the Eichel teams. Couldn't win big games, couldn't get into the playoffs. Rumors of a bad locker room culture (many of those rumors are now coming to light from credible sources). Some denied that mattered.

"Vibes" is the new, neat way to say "culture."

If you don't think it matters, and matters a lot, then you're not paying attention.
 
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Der Jaeger said:
I remember when the Vanek, Roy, Pominville teams couldn't get past the first round a decade ago, and then struggled to even get into the playoffs. There were rumors of a bad locker room culture. Some denied that mattered.
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I have an alternate theory:

They weren't a well constructed team. They couldn't make the playoffs unless Miller was a Vezina level goalie.


Der Jaeger said:
Fast forward to the Eichel teams. Couldn't win big games, couldn't get into the playoffs. Rumors of a bad locker room culture (many of those rumors are now coming to light from credible sources). Some denied that mattered.
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They also were not a well constructed team.

Der Jaeger said:
"Vibes" is the new, neat way to say "culture."

If you don't think it matters, and matters a lot, then you're not paying attention.
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Culture is just one of many factors to look at to see why a team isn't successful. It's possible to have a great culture with no success. It's possible to have a ton of success without a good culture. It's not the end all, be all. It's simply a part of the formula for a successful team, just like having a good goalie, center depth, and a strong defense is a formula for a successful team. And sustained losing will destroy any attempts to build a good culture.
 
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TehDoak said:
Culture is just one of many factors to look at to see why a team isn't successful. It's possible to have a great culture with no success. It's possible to have a ton of success without a good culture. It's not the end all, be all. It's simply a part of the formula for a successful team, just like having a good goalie, center depth, and a strong defense is a formula for a successful team. And sustained losing will destroy any attempts to build a good culture.
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It's not just one of many factor. It's one of the most important factors.

Read up on how special operations selections work. All the selections processes have the exact same methodology: tear people down to their core, and see who they are.

Do they look for mental toughness? Physical toughness? Sure. The the two things that the instructors look for more than anything are followership and service. When someone is completely exhausted, are they willing to be part of a team and help others? Sound pretty simple, but after 60 days of one meal a day and two hours of sleep, and being cold/hot/wet all day, those simple things aren't simple.

Ever see a special operations team of any sort? They don't look like pro wrestlers or linebackers. Just normal sized people. Because what makes them "special" are the character traits I described above. It's the culture of the organization which makes those teams "special."

I get that hockey is many steps down in importance or intensity from what I just described. But it underscores my point. I'll take what the Sabres have right now: poorly constructed rosters (no goalie, not enough RHD, no real #1 center) but a good cultural foundation, than more talent and a better constructed roster. The culture of this team is what will carry it further than any other single factor.
 
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TehDoak said:
If that is what he wants to do, he should trade for their rights before free agency and get it done.

The number of teams needing a goalie exceeds the number of goalies available by a bit.

With the goalie position, Adams will need be hyper aggressive about getting it done.
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This can also be an option, but rights are not always traded for. As I have mentioned many times before, there will be many interesting goaltenders on the market this offseason.
 
Yup, you can totally compare SpecOps to a hockey team. Enough teams in all sports won with a bad 'culture'. Just win and nobody gives a f*** about culture.
But who cares.
 
For me. If we aren’t utilizing our cap space for large overpayments on quality vets for 2 year deals ie letang malkin fleury and subban then ill be upset. I understand if they dont sign but i want hear about us offering massive short term deals to studs. Theres a spot for all 4 of those guys. We need 1 RHD(letang or subban)., a top 6 center(Malkin) and a goaltender(Fleury)for the next couple of years.
 
JLewyB said:
For me. If we aren’t utilizing our cap space for large overpayments on quality vets for 2 year deals ie letang malkin fleury and subban then ill be upset. I understand if they dont sign but i want hear about us offering massive short term deals to studs. Theres a spot for all 4 of those guys. We need 1 RHD(letang or subban)., a top 6 center(Malkin) and a goaltender(Fleury)for the next couple of years.
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Malkin will stay in Penguins. I'm not sure Adams will be looking for the top 6 C. We have Thompson and also three other young centers that compete with each otherfor the 2C spot. Asplund, in theory, could also play in the center and be a type of Danault.
 
Duddy said:
Yup, you can totally compare SpecOps to a hockey team. Enough teams in all sports won with a bad 'culture'. Just win and nobody gives a f*** about culture.
But who cares.
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Pretty short sighted take here. A bad culture over a longer period of time makes guys want to leave. Like we are seeing in Winnipeg and Vancouver. Makes it harder to sign UFAs or get team discounts.

After the whole Eichel saga I don’t know how anybody here wouldn’t care strongly about our team culture.
 
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elchud said:
One of the reasons to try to pluck Letang from Pittsburgh (or Bergeron from Boston) is it knocks those teams out of the top 8 and puts us in.

Insane money for 2 seasons for one of those two means playoffs for us.

Each has spent their entire career with the one team and has cups with that team so it seems so unlikely.

But...

Bergeron has been underpaid his entire career. We can pay him 2x10. What other team could/would. Letang 2x8.

Both of those deals would be smarter/better than the Taylor Hall abomination.

Unlikely. Worth a phone call. Even if it's just to make it more expensive to be re-signed or sign elsewhere.
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we don’t need to hide their players in order to get to the playoffs.

i highly doubt Bergeron signs elsewhere.
 
Der Jaeger said:
It's not just one of many factor. It's one of the most important factors.

Read up on how special operations selections work. All the selections processes have the exact same methodology: tear people down to their core, and see who they are.

Do they look for mental toughness? Physical toughness? Sure. The the two things that the instructors look for more than anything are followership and service. When someone is completely exhausted, are they willing to be part of a team and help others? Sound pretty simple, but after 60 days of one meal a day and two hours of sleep, and being cold/hot/wet all day, those simple things aren't simple.

Ever see a special operations team of any sort? They don't look like pro wrestlers or linebackers. Just normal sized people. Because what makes them "special" are the character traits I described above. It's the culture of the organization which makes those teams "special."

I get that hockey is many steps down in importance or intensity from what I just described. But it underscores my point. I'll take what the Sabres have right now: poorly constructed rosters (no goalie, not enough RHD, no real #1 center) but a good cultural foundation, than more talent and a better constructed roster. The culture of this team is what will carry it further than any other single factor.
Click to expand...

We've had versions of this conversation before. There are several examples of bad culture teams winning cups. The 3 time cup winning blackhawks in hindsight appear to have been an organizational mess and toxic as shit with bullying and intimidation internally.

The LA Kings scooped up Richards/Carter that Philly purged for culture reasons and won 2 cups with them.

Heck, we saw a version of this on our own team where the front office pulled the plug on O'Reilly because he was sick of not winning. He went on to win a cup and Conn Smythe the next year.

On the other side of the coin, you have Boston who have had sustained success and place a very high value on culture. At the same time, they 'only' won one cup despite maintaining a steady core with multiple hall of famers on it.

I think what this shows is actually the importance of having the players in the right role, either on or off the ice. Some guys shouldn't be locker room leaders and are much better as guys who just want to play. Trying to force a leadership role on guys who are ill suited to it will lead to bad results.

Culture IS important. And it shouldn't be ignored. And having the RIGHT guys in leadership roles, both on and off the ice, very important. Looking back at the Eichel debacle, the worst thing we did was force him into the captains role.

In the end though, culture is simply a part of the formula of sustainable winning. it has to be taken in balance with other considerations
 
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sabrenoise.com

Buffalo Sabres: Jack Campbell would make a huge upgrade

The Buffalo Sabres desperately need a goaltender and they may look to free agency to fill the void. Jack Campbell may be hot on their radar.
sabrenoise.com sabrenoise.com

While the Toronto Maple Leafs will do everything in their power to re-sign Campbell, Chris Johnston told TSN that the Leafs may not be able to afford the star goaltender’s asking price. For the Sabres, this is a golden opportunity. Not just to snag one of the NHL’s best netminders from a season ago, but to also weaken a division rival.

Jack Campbell would provide long-term stability for the Buffalo Sabres at goaltender​

Johnston further said the Maple Leafs may seek quantity over quality and go after two goaltenders to fill Campbell’s potential void. Right now, the price seems to be three years at $5 million per year, which is well within the Sabres range should they go in such a direction.
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I wouldn't mind giving Campbell 3 yrs @ $5M AAV.
 
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Jim Bob said:
sabrenoise.com

Buffalo Sabres: Jack Campbell would make a huge upgrade

The Buffalo Sabres desperately need a goaltender and they may look to free agency to fill the void. Jack Campbell may be hot on their radar.
sabrenoise.com sabrenoise.com



I wouldn't mind giving Campbell 3 yrs @ $5M AAV.
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I have to think the issue with Toronto and Campbell is the Mrazek contract. That can't reasonably spend 8.8M on two goalies, but I have to think if they could send Mrazek out....
 
We should give Campbell and MA Fleury matching 3-year, $5m deals...but Flower's deal is 1yr as a player and 2yrs as a coach. Use those Pegulabucks for good.
 
Another goalie who's locked in at $5m for three years is Linus Ullmark. Bruins need cap pretty desperately and have Swayman as a number one. Save pct of .917 over 40+ games isn't too shabby. He was deemed to be popular in the room, IIRC.

Maybe send a third rounder to Boston for Ullmark and Foligno? Assuming there's no bad blood, of course.
 
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Diaspora said:
Another goalie who's locked in at $5m for three years is Linus Ullmark. Bruins need cap pretty desperately and have Swayman as a number one. Save pct of .917 over 40+ games isn't too shabby. He was deemed to be popular in the room, IIRC.

Maybe send a third rounder to Boston for Ullmark and Foligno? Assuming there's no bad blood, of course.
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Linus has a full NMC, would he waive to come back to the team he seemingly burned (in part due to Adams being naive).
 
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