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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Madness the 15th: How's that dream job now, Farrell?

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I guess we'll really see if Murphy was a factor in Lind's struggles or not.

How sweet would Aaron Hill look on this team? I know its total hindsight and he sucked for 2 seasons before being traded but that trade turned out brutal for us.
 
Just a friendly reminder, Sportsnet will be showing the 1992 world series throughout the week. Big props to them for doing this.
 
Lind sucks people. He has sucked brutally for 3 straight years and other than one outlier season, he has been pretty bad over his career.
 
Nasty Nazem said:
Lind sucks people. He has sucked brutally for 3 straight years and other than one outlier season, he has been pretty bad over his career.
Click to expand...

He isnt a great player no doubt but he still may end up in the 5 spot.
He is a better hitter than Rasmus or JPA. Lawrie cold end up there but he still has alot to prove and isnt a lefty.

Right now it the 2 most likely to hit 5th are Lind or Rasmus, and while Rasmus could still break out he just doesn't hit as well as Lind.
 
Nasty Nazem said:
Lind sucks people. He has sucked brutally for 3 straight years and other than one outlier season, he has been pretty bad over his career.
Click to expand...

He sucks if you expect him to at 162 games. Because he can't hit lefties. Like, AT ALL.

But if you start him in 120 games (the games that happen to be against RHP), there's every reason to think Bozak's projections are well within the realm of possibility.

The question is, who is his platoon partner? Davis? Canzler? We'll just have to wait and see.
 
Ohio Jones said:
He sucks if you expect him to at 162 games. Because he can't hit lefties. Like, AT ALL.

But if you start him in 120 games (the games that happen to be against RHP), there's every reason to think Bozak's projections are well within the realm of possibility.

The question is, who is his platoon partner? Davis? Canzler? We'll just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

Davis does hit lefties really well but he doesn't have the kind of power people will expect from a DH.
I'd like it because I love speed on the bases but others might not.
 
It would be hilarious if injuries forced us to ever put Reyes, Boni, Davis and Gose in the lineup at the same time.

The opposing pitcher and catcher would probably have nervous breakdowns.
 
Cyris said:
Davis does hit lefties really well but he doesn't have the kind of power people will expect from a DH.
I'd like it because I love speed on the bases but others might not.
Click to expand...

I hear you. There's power in the lineup. The idea should be to get on base, but as it happens Canzler brings a fair bit of pop against lefties, IIRC, along with good OBP. Could be best of both worlds (at least, best on a budget).
 
clarification needed...

just finished watching a recap of the 92' Jays...

is Dickey the first pitcher we've acquired from the Mets since David Cone??? :p
 
So I'm just trying to keep tabs on the movement of Blue Jays this offseason. As far as I know, the Jays have acquired:

Josh Johnson
Mark Buerhle
Jose Reyes
Maicer Izturis
Melky Cabrera
Emilio Bonefacio
Esmil Rogers
R.A. Dickey
Josh Thole
Mike Nickeas

Am I forgetting anyone?
 
trellaine201 said:
Does that start Xmas day? Or?
Click to expand...

I think so, yes.

Looks like Game 1 is tomorrow night at 6pm local time on each of the 4 regional Sportsnets.

Game 2: Wednesday (Boxing Day) 6pm ET/3pm PT on all 4 regionals

Game 3: Thursday (Dec 27) 5pm local time on each regional

Game 4: Friday (Dec 28) 5pm ET on Ontario and East, 4pm PT on Pacific & West

Game 5: Saturday (Dec 29) 6pm ET/3pm PT on all 4 regionals

Game 6: Sunday (Dec 30) 3pm ET/12pm PT on all 4 regionals

Sportsnet One appears to have a later re-broadcast of each game on the same day (like 3-5 hours after the first broadcast on the regional channels)
 
Cyris said:
He isnt a great player no doubt but he still may end up in the 5 spot.
He is a better hitter than Rasmus or JPA. Lawrie cold end up there but he still has alot to prove and isnt a lefty.

Right now it the 2 most likely to hit 5th are Lind or Rasmus, and while Rasmus could still break out he just doesn't hit as well as Lind.
Click to expand...

At best, he is slightly better who loses all of his value because he plays 1st base/DH. Those guys play premium positions and don't have to hit as much. Lind plays 1st base and he needs to hit to stay in the big league.

Ohio Jones said:
He sucks if you expect him to at 162 games. Because he can't hit lefties. Like, AT ALL.

But if you start him in 120 games (the games that happen to be against RHP), there's every reason to think Bozak's projections are well within the realm of possibility.

The question is, who is his platoon partner? Davis? Canzler? We'll just have to wait and see.
Click to expand...

He is above average against righties but it isn't like he rakes against them or anything. For a guy that brings no value against anything else whether that's defense/baserunning, if you are going to be a platoon player, at least rake against righties... especially when you are a 1st baseman/DH.

He is serviceable but he will have trouble staying in the bigs if he is a platoon player. Teams don't really look to platoon 1st baseman/DH.

Let's just hope he can put up like a .330 OBP which would be like a miracle for him.
 
Merry Christmas everyone :) (If you don't celebrate it, then happy holidays to you as well)

I figured I'd add my predictions to the mix as well :P

SS Reyes .310/.360/.455 | 15 HR | 55 RBI | 100 R | 35 SB
LF Cabrera .305/.350/.450 | 16 HR | 65 RBI | 85 R | 15 SB
RF Bautista .250/.380/.555 | 45 HR | 115 RBI | 95 R | 0 SB
1B Encarnacion .285/.360/.485 | 35 HR | 95 RBI | 90 R | 10 SB
CF Rasmus .255/.305/.465 | 24 HR | 65 RBI | 60 R | 10 SB
3B Lawrie .275/.330/.460 | 18 HR | 65 RBI | 65 R | 20 SB
DH Lind .245/.300/.455 | 27 HR | 55 RBI | 50 R | 0 SB
C Arencibia .240/.295/.445 | 23 HR | 55 RBI | 50 R | 0 SB
2B Izturis .280/.350/.405 | 4 HR | 45 RBI | 65 R | 10 SB

SP Dickey 3.45 ERA | 220 IP | 215 K | 1.15 WHIP
SP Morrow 3.25 ERA | 195 IP | 205 K | 1.20 WHIP
SP Buehrle 4.60 ERA | 215 IP | 120 K | 1.30 WHIP
SP Johnson 3.65 ERA | 200 IP | 210 K | 1.25 WHIP
SP Romero 4.65 ERA | 190 IP | 165 K | 1.35 WHIP

RECORD: 96W - 66L
 
Its 2 AM and I'm bored as hell.

As such, I present: preparing for the 1992 World Series as if this topic existed back then (partial credit to the inordinately long family conversation on it tonight). Sadly, pretty much all of this is true (and if necessary can be sourced to media articles). Which shows why predicting sports is absolutely worthless.

General Thoughts
- You've followed this team since 1977, and pretty much seen nothing but failure on the big stage. Blowing a 3-1 lead to Kansas City in '85, the epic collapse against Detroit in '87, getting smashed by Oakland in '89 and getting upset by Minnesota in '91. Everyone in the national media referred to your team as 'the Blow Jays,' including Bob Costas claiming that "Elvis has a better chance of coming back than the Blue Jays" after Oakland took the first two games of the '89 ALCS. In essence, the Jays are the San Jose Sharks of baseball (sorry Nem). If they fail to hit in Game 1 you'll probably flood the board in anger.

- On the flip side, after Pat Gillick went out and signed Jack Morris and Dave Winfield in the offseason, everyone (including Yankee fans) are now accusing the Jays of 'buying' a World Series, since they do have the highest payroll in the league. You are somewhat offended by this but also know that since the days of 4,000,000 fans per season in the Skydome bolstered by an extremely committed owner aren't ending any time soon, you should just get used to it. You just post this all the time, although it's resulted in the loss of your BJ Birdie avatar.

- You hear that one of the candidates to become the first commissioner of the NHL, some guy from the NBA, has stated his consideration to expand to cities like Atlanta in the future. Although not a hockey market, after the high level of support they show in this series you will think its a good idea

- You own multiple very large 'J's (fully legal), as well as a bunch of weird clapping things that no one likes and just give everyone headaches.

Players everyone likes

- Robbie Alomar: this one is obvious; considering he just hit what will undoubtedly go down as the biggest homer in Blue Jay history, and followed it up by going 3-5 with two steals in the clincher against Oakland. You absolutely hated when he was traded here from San Diego a couple years ago, but you're over that now.

- Jack Morris: Maybe everyone doesn't like him after his really subpar ALCS, but you know this guy is a legend. 10 shutout innings in Game 7 last year, and he's one of the most clutch pitchers around. He'll be carrying this staff during the series, that's for sure.

- Tom Henke/Duane Ward: remember a couple topics back when we were talking about shutdown closers. Well there's only one thing better than a shutdown closer, and that's a shutdown set up man and closer. The Jays haven't blown a save in their last 74 chances, so if the World Series is ever on the line over the next few days and one of these guys is on the mound, may as well just bust out the champagne early.

- Rest of the playoff rotation: David Cone, Juan Guzman and Jimmy Key will pitch games 2/3/4 respectively. All three of them were pretty much lights out in the ALCS, although you hear that Cone can't hold anyone on and Atlanta feasts on that kind of stuff. Considering that you can bet your house that Morris will at worst split his two games, you just need these guys to out-pitch Smoltz and Avery and this series should end in Canada.

Players everyone hates

- Pat Borders: You think JPA is bad? This scrub hit .242/.290/.385 this year and that's a good season for him! He did hit .318 in the ALCS but you know that the Jays offense is going to have to win in spite of this guy. Everyone knows you need elite catchers to win championships. On the plus side, the Braves starting catcher is hurt so their backup definitely won't factor into any games.

- Joe Carter: OK, so you probably don't hate Joe Carter (although you did when you still bitter over that San Diego trade). But 2012 you hates Joe Carter, with all that newfangled statistical knowledge. I mean, this guy had a .309 OBP, hitting 3rd in the lineup. Yeah he is a run producer, but we all know that's just a product of the guys in front of him (can't forget about Devon White and that .303 OBP). You don't understand why all the people you call 'casual fans' love him, and at this point you're just hoping he performs well and then goes off to get overpaid by Kansas City in the offseason.

- Dave Winfield: You find all that 'Winfield Wants Noise' stuff really cool, but this guy just isn't clutch, and you want him nowhere near the plate with the game on the line. He was 1-22 in his one World Series with San Diego, and even though it was 11 years ago and he's probably a different player than he was at the time, you along with the media will bring this up at every opportunity. He only hit .250 in the ALCS, and you're also going to have to put his 41 year old ass in the outfield in Atlanta.

- Kelly Gruber: Sure, he has a mullet, and since its the early 90's you probably have one too, but that's no excuse for his current 0-16 slump that he's currently in. But seriously, even though he was a crowd favourite for most of the year, right now you dislike this guy (there's home video of me as a three year old going through the Jays lineup before this series, and when I get to him I go "Kelly Gruber boooooo"...I mean seriously there was some anger).

Everyone else is sort of there. Devon White is awesome defensively, Mark Eichhorn throws really cool and Manny Lee has the best stache of any shortstop in the AL East.

And if the Jays lose; at least you still have the Leafs, who are the favourites to get out of the Norris Division! They are playing the Hawks tonight so I hope they get killed but its all good.
 
theaub said:
Its 2 AM and I'm bored as hell.

As such, I present: preparing for the 1992 World Series as if this topic existed back then (partial credit to the inordinately long family conversation on it tonight). Sadly, pretty much all of this is true (and if necessary can be sourced to media articles). Which shows why predicting sports is absolutely worthless.

General Thoughts
- You've followed this team since 1977, and pretty much seen nothing but failure on the big stage. Blowing a 3-1 lead to Kansas City in '85, the epic collapse against Detroit in '87, getting smashed by Oakland in '89 and getting upset by Minnesota in '91. Everyone in the national media referred to your team as 'the Blow Jays,' including Bob Costas claiming that "Elvis has a better chance of coming back than the Blue Jays" after Oakland took the first two games of the '89 ALCS. In essence, the Jays are the San Jose Sharks of baseball (sorry Nem). If they fail to hit in Game 1 you'll probably flood the board in anger.

- On the flip side, after Pat Gillick went out and signed Jack Morris and Dave Winfield in the offseason, everyone (including Yankee fans) are now accusing the Jays of 'buying' a World Series, since they do have the highest payroll in the league. You are somewhat offended by this but also know that since the days of 4,000,000 fans per season in the Skydome bolstered by an extremely committed owner aren't ending any time soon, you should just get used to it. You just post this all the time, although it's resulted in the loss of your BJ Birdie avatar.

- You hear that one of the candidates to become the first commissioner of the NHL, some guy from the NBA, has stated his consideration to expand to cities like Atlanta in the future. Although not a hockey market, after the high level of support they show in this series you will think its a good idea

- You own multiple very large 'J's (fully legal), as well as a bunch of weird clapping things that no one likes and just give everyone headaches.

Players everyone likes

- Robbie Alomar: this one is obvious; considering he just hit what will undoubtedly go down as the biggest homer in Blue Jay history, and followed it up by going 3-5 with two steals in the clincher against Oakland. You absolutely hated when he was traded here from San Diego a couple years ago, but you're over that now.

- Jack Morris: Maybe everyone doesn't like him after his really subpar ALCS, but you know this guy is a legend. 10 shutout innings in Game 7 last year, and he's one of the most clutch pitchers around. He'll be carrying this staff during the series, that's for sure.

- Tom Henke/Duane Ward: remember a couple topics back when we were talking about shutdown closers. Well there's only one thing better than a shutdown closer, and that's a shutdown set up man and closer. The Jays haven't blown a save in their last 74 chances, so if the World Series is ever on the line over the next few days and one of these guys is on the mound, may as well just bust out the champagne early.

- Rest of the playoff rotation: David Cone, Juan Guzman and Jimmy Key will pitch games 2/3/4 respectively. All three of them were pretty much lights out in the ALCS, although you hear that Cone can't hold anyone on and Atlanta feasts on that kind of stuff. Considering that you can bet your house that Morris will at worst split his two games, you just need these guys to out-pitch Smoltz and Avery and this series should end in Canada.

Players everyone hates

- Pat Borders: You think JPA is bad? This scrub hit .242/.290/.385 this year and that's a good season for him! He did hit .318 in the ALCS but you know that the Jays offense is going to have to win in spite of this guy. Everyone knows you need elite catchers to win championships. On the plus side, the Braves starting catcher is hurt so their backup definitely won't factor into any games.

- Joe Carter: OK, so you probably don't hate Joe Carter (although you did when you still bitter over that San Diego trade). But 2012 you hates Joe Carter, with all that newfangled statistical knowledge. I mean, this guy had a .309 OBP, hitting 3rd in the lineup. Yeah he is a run producer, but we all know that's just a product of the guys in front of him (can't forget about Devon White and that .303 OBP). You don't understand why all the people you call 'casual fans' love him, and at this point you're just hoping he performs well and then goes off to get overpaid by Kansas City in the offseason.

- Dave Winfield: You find all that 'Winfield Wants Noise' stuff really cool, but this guy just isn't clutch, and you want him nowhere near the plate with the game on the line. He was 1-22 in his one World Series with San Diego, and even though it was 11 years ago and he's probably a different player than he was at the time, you along with the media will bring this up at every opportunity. He only hit .250 in the ALCS, and you're also going to have to put his 41 year old ass in the outfield in Atlanta.

- Kelly Gruber: Sure, he has a mullet, and since its the early 90's you probably have one too, but that's no excuse for his current 0-16 slump that he's currently in. But seriously, even though he was a crowd favourite for most of the year, right now you dislike this guy (there's home video of me as a three year old going through the Jays lineup before this series, and when I get to him I go "Kelly Gruber boooooo"...I mean seriously there was some anger).

Everyone else is sort of there. Devon White is awesome defensively, Mark Eichhorn throws really cool and Manny Lee has the best stache of any shortstop in the AL East.

And if the Jays lose; at least you still have the Leafs, who are the favourites to get out of the Norris Division! They are playing the Hawks tonight so I hope they get killed but its all good.
Click to expand...

Awesome!

Thank you :handclap:

Merry Christmas!!
 
Nasty Nazem said:
At best, he is slightly better who loses all of his value because he plays 1st base/DH. Those guys play premium positions and don't have to hit as much. Lind plays 1st base and he needs to hit to stay in the big league.



He is above average against righties but it isn't like he rakes against them or anything. For a guy that brings no value against anything else whether that's defense/baserunning, if you are going to be a platoon player, at least rake against righties... especially when you are a 1st baseman/DH.

He is serviceable but he will have trouble staying in the bigs if he is a platoon player. Teams don't really look to platoon 1st baseman/DH.

Let's just hope he can put up like a .330 OBP which would be like a miracle for him.
Click to expand...

DH seems to be a weak position right now... How many big name slugging DH are there right now? Ortiz for sure... a couple other maybe but it does't seem like Lind is out of place at DH.

Everyone in the outfield is starting everyday. In the infield Lawrie, Reyes, Encarnacion everyday and Arencibia at catcher. Only 2B and DH do we really need a platoon, so if we platoon the DH position instead of LF (where we're set at with Melky) why would it matter?
 
borders_carter_jays_fuel_640.jpg


reyes
alomar
bautista
encarnacion
olerud
carter
white
lawrie
borders

dickey
hentgen
johnson
guzman
morrow

ward
timlin
janssen
 
Last edited:
Cyris said:
Carter over cabrera imo. And Gruber vs Lawrie is debatable but I would lean to Lawrie.
Click to expand...

right - fixed
i was thinking bautista RF over carter
cabrera LF over henderson

but carter can go to LF

"touch em all jose, you'll never hit a bigger homerun in your life!"
 
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