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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-Season Edition III: Spring Training Madness (Spring Training is over. Season starts on Thursday, Mar 30)

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Eyedea said:
wRC+ takes all of those park effects into account for us. The 65 point gap between Judge and Ohtani in 2022 is enough to illustrate just how much more valuable Judge's bat is. We're talking a 5.5 WAR difference on just the bat alone (based on FG's batting runs metric). That equates to what Ohtani put up on the pitching side. Then bring in positional adjustment and... yup, Judge was worth more than Ohtani and deservedly the MVP in 2022.

Ohtani is a special player but unless he was playing RF on his non-pitching days his hitting value will always be hampered by his positional adjustment. Judge on the other hand is J-Hey/Mookie levels of elite at RF and is also above average in CF.
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In 2022, I don't think there's any question Judge was better. Whether he's actually the better player is a fair question though.
 
Jays farm system ranked 20th

www.mlb.com

Ranking all 30 farm systems

Many have come at the king. So far, they’ve still all missed. The Orioles retain the top spot in the MLB Pipeline Farm System Rankings for the fourth consecutive time between preseason and midseason lists. Since Pipeline began ranking systems in 2015, only one other organization has claimed No. 1
www.mlb.com www.mlb.com
 
thehockeysong said:
Moving forward or this past season?
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Judge had a historical season no doubt, he deserved MVP just my personal preference as a avid fan. If Judge continues to put up 60 HR seasons then its hard to argue.. Still personally would take 35-40 hrs, and a Cy Young-ish pitching. Also Judge is a Yankee so there is a personal bias.. Ohtani seems like the global star the league needs.

Bjindaho said:
Moving forward, there is a real chance that Ohtani pulls a McDavid and pulls away as the best player in baseball. There's also the possibility that he hangs around the pack so while he is close the rest (or better), he is far more valuable (because the Angels are the only team in baseball allowed to have a 9 man bullpen).
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Only team capable? Doesn't Tampa have a McKay who is a 2 way player also?
 
saska sault said:
Judge had a historical season no doubt, he deserved MVP just my personal preference as a avid fan. If Judge continues to put up 60 HR seasons then its hard to argue.. Still personally would take 35-40 hrs, and a Cy Young-ish pitching. Also Judge is a Yankee so there is a personal bias.. Ohtani seems like the global star the league needs.



Only team capable? Doesn't Tampa have a McKay who is a 2 way player also?
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By rule, any new two way players count as pitchers (or they aren't allowed to pitch). There's a minimum number of at bats that they need to have to flip for the next season.
 
theaub said:


We did it guys we "lost" a lot of money again (thank you significantly understated TV contract and related party advertising expenses)
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Quick reminder: the Yankees have the highest reported average viewership at 231,000 and got $143 million for it last year. I know viewership is calculated differently in Canada and the US, and that there's a significant difference in value of each viewer, but the Jays average 896,000 viewers per game last year... almost FOUR TIMES more than the next most viewed team.

Forbes doesn't seem to say anywhere what number they used in calculating TV value for the Jays, but I guarantee it's many tens of millions less than what Rogers actually makes off the team.
 
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Bjindaho said:
By rule, any new two way players count as pitchers (or they aren't allowed to pitch). There's a minimum number of at bats that they need to have to flip for the next season.
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That part of the rule is dumb. There should be consideration for how a player was used in the minors.

Other than that, I think all the rules in place because of Ohtani are completely reasonable.
 
Discoverer said:
That part of the rule is dumb. There should be consideration for how a player was used in the minors.

Other than that, I think all the rules in place because of Ohtani are completely reasonable.
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I don't like the idea of the 13/13 split where Ohtani counts as a position player.

The rule specifically qualifies him as a position player even though he hit 0 times as a non-DH last year. I'm of the belief that there should be a minimum number of innings played as a non-P/non-DH to qualify as a hitter (if you are eligible to pitch).

He has 2272 PA and 8.1 defensive innings played in his career as a non-pitcher.
 
www.cbssports.com

Ranking MLB's top 100 players for 2023: Shohei Ohtani at No. 1; Padres, Yankees, Angels all have two in top 10

Who will be the best players in the upcoming season? Let's rank 100 before Opening Day
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com

I believe the Jays have the most players with 8 and the Braves and Mets are tied for 2nd with 7 players.

AL East:
Jays: 8
Rays: 6
Yankees: 5
O's: 3
Red Sox: 1

Other Notables:
Astros: 6
Guardians: 6
Padres: 6
Dodgers: 5
Mariners: 3

Jays Players;
21. Kirk
29. Guerrero Jr.
30. Bichette
43. Gausman
44. Springer
46. Manoah
73. Chapman
100. Varsho

Former Jays:
49. Semien
91. Stroman
 
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theaub said:
Just want to reiterate how good Judge was last year. Obviously there's some regression incoming but Judge had the 7th best post-integration single season last year (ahead of him is early 2000's Bonds x3, prime Mantle x2 and prime Musial).

Even if you take Ohtani's 2021 hitting and 2022 pitching he still doesn't hit Judge's WAR last year.

Ohtani is definitely the coolest player by a significant margin (and there's also the roster flexibility that doesn't get accounted for in WAR) but it is close.

The upside(?) of this is when Judge inevitably regresses from a health perspective the Yankees are screwed.

Also I am glad to announce that Cy Kikuchi is back for another rotation turn.
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Let’s not forget they were also by all accounts feeding Judge juiced balls last year and that’s not nothing. Doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have still killed it but that stuff changes the game. It’s embarrassing that the league did that and will do it again this year. With the use of multiple kinds of balls

canucksfan said:
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That’s his future now which isn’t the end of the world for us. But if Nate became a late inning reliever/closer that throws heat I won’t complain
 
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I looked up the Jays 2022 Opening Day roster and the relievers were

Romano
Cimber
Garcia
Phelps
Richards
Saucedo
Thornton
Mayza
Stripling
Merryweather

This year is quite an improvement, especially with Pop and Pearson in AAA, I assume.
 
Bjindaho said:
I don't like the idea of the 13/13 split where Ohtani counts as a position player.

The rule specifically qualifies him as a position player even though he hit 0 times as a non-DH last year. I'm of the belief that there should be a minimum number of innings played as a non-P/non-DH to qualify as a hitter (if you are eligible to pitch).

He has 2272 PA and 8.1 defensive innings played in his career as a non-pitcher.
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What does the number of time he played "as a non-DH" have to do with anything? DH is a position and he plays it full time. Of course he qualifies as a hitter.
 
Discoverer said:
What does the number of time he played "as a non-DH" have to do with anything? DH is a position and he plays it full time. Of course he qualifies as a hitter.
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They don't call them hitter and pitcher. They specifically say position player and pitcher. The only position he plays is pitcher.
 
theaub said:


We did it guys we "lost" a lot of money again (thank you significantly understated TV contract and related party advertising expenses)
Click to expand...

Good way to wash away your profits. You always want to make it look like a loss
 
phillipmike said:
www.cbssports.com

Ranking MLB's top 100 players for 2023: Shohei Ohtani at No. 1; Padres, Yankees, Angels all have two in top 10

Who will be the best players in the upcoming season? Let's rank 100 before Opening Day
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com

I believe the Jays have the most players with 8 and the Braves and Mets are tied for 2nd with 7 players.

AL East:
Jays: 8
Rays: 6
Yankees: 5
O's: 3
Red Sox: 1

Other Notables:
Astros: 6
Guardians: 6
Padres: 6
Dodgers: 5
Mariners: 3

Jays Players;
21. Kirk
29. Guerrero Jr.
30. Bichette
43. Gausman
44. Springer
46. Manoah
73. Chapman
100. Varsho

Former Jays:
49. Semien
91. Stroman
Click to expand...
I’m as much of a fan as anybody but how in the hell is Kirk the highest ranking Jay??
 
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