Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

[phillipmike]

Good point

Varsho’s minors line;

.302/.376/527/.899

If any of that shows up with his elite defense in CF, instead of tissues for my tears losing Moreno, I going to use them for something else.

Nice to have him learn from Kiermaier.

 

[MAB1]

I believe Moreno hit a lot of groundballs last year even in AAA.

Trying to justify giving up Moreno because he would easily become an elite catcher.

- Prospects bust at a very high rate in baseball, Moreno isn't guaranteed to be anything
- Kirk is a top 3 catcher in all of baseball, even if Moreno doesn't bust, it'll be very hard for him to better than that unless he fully hits on his potential
- In terms of actually winning in 2023 and 2024, Moreno is the weakest option behind Kirk and Jansen, regardless of potential. You have 3 years of Bo and Vladdy left before they hit FA, potential for proven is necessary.

The reaction to this trade reminds me a little bit of the reaction to Lawrie + for Donaldson. Varsho wasn't the hitter that Donaldson was but he hit 27 hrs last year and is coming to the East now...that's a 30+hr bat they just added imo.

 

[Blitzkrug]

My side note question is wtf is Arizona planning to do with Gurriel? Which leads me to believe its a salary dump and the Jays are going to add more.

Probably to just replace Varsho's spot in the lineup.

 

[MAB1]

Varsho’s minors line;

.302/.376/527/.899

If any of that shows up with his elite defense in CF, instead of tissues for my tears losing Moreno, I going to use them for something else.

Nice to have him learn from Kiermaier.

He's a top 10 OF with a league average bat + power. If he starts producing like his minors, he's top 5 easily.

 

[theaub]

I'm a little surprised at the negative reactions here. I'm disappointed about Gurriel because I think keeping him would make the team ready to go, but this makes the team a LOT better. They probably have the best defensive OF in the league now, and maybe the best defensive team overall.

Varsho wasn't bad offensively last year - a 106 wRC+ isn't a huge drop from Gurriel's 114 - and it's way easier to find someone to platoon with Varsho.

The cost was high, but it's not exactly cheap to find a 26-year-old with 4 years of control coming off a 4.6 fWAR season.

Based on the general consistent theme of the bad takes online I don't think a lot of people know who Varsho is...

Also its HF so prospects have like 7x the value that they actually do.

 

[Woodman19]

Im looking forward to the complaining about his low batting average while he mashes 30 HR and puts up more WAR than all the other players we could have had in the OF in his place.

 

[Blitzkrug]

So Varsho, Springer and I'm assuming a tandem of Merrifield/Kiermaier in the outfield?

Don't hate it. Sucks to see Gurriel go but I can't deny that outfield is better..

 

[Kurtz]

I wonder if part of the Skydome renovation will be to make the outfield bigger. Otherwise, having 3 extremely rangy defensive outfielders, you run into diminished returns, defensively. We need to turn Skydome into Coors pretty much to maximize our advantage.

 

[MAB1]

Long-term outlook of the OF looks solid too with Springer and Varsho here for the next 4 years at least. And with Varsho's ability to be an elite CF it's not like they need to replace a legit CF next year if KK walks.

 

[Judas Tavares]

Not that this is to the same degree/level/impact. But with baseball, it's tough to follow everyone out there. I can remember when Lawrie was traded for Donaldson, people were upset cause this Canadian boy with swagger was traded for someone who wasn't really a name on a team most people in Canada don't track. Look how that turned out. Not saying this will be the same, but Varsho is not a household name on a team many don't follow. So in that sense, I think it's similar. People will be happy once they see him play and experience his contributions. He just needs to make a diving catch into the crowd at the Trop, and that will put him in the good graces.... (Then win MVP lol....)

 

[Kurtz]

The reaction to this trade reminds me a little bit of the reaction to Lawrie + for Donaldson. Varsho wasn't the hitter than Donaldson was but he hit 27 hrs last year and is coming to the East now...that's a 30+hr bat they just added imo.

That's not my recollection of the Donaldson trade. I wasn't on Twitter at the time, but people on this message board went wild on the JD deal right away. We couldn't believe that was all JD cost.

 

[phillipmike]

Didn’t realize Varsho had 27 HRs and 16 SBs. So in addition to elite defense, versatility he has some power and better base running. Good player to have.

Teo had 25 HRs and 6 SBs.

 

[as Pure as Evil]

No shift no problem teams better hope they hit it through the infield cause if its in play and up in the air good chance its caught

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I am pretty confident in saying Varsho is going to become a fan favourite in Toronto within like the first month of the season.

 

[GoonieFace]

First reaction was not sure what to think, but a lot of good points on here make me think this is a good trade. I’m never married to baseball prospects and Gurriel is mostly a mess

 

[MAB1]

That's not my recollection of the Donaldson trade. I wasn't on Twitter at the time, but people on this message board went wild on the JD deal right away. We couldn't believe that was all JD cost.

I wasn't referencing this board for that lol

 

[Judas Tavares]

That's not my recollection of the Donaldson trade. I wasn't on Twitter at the time, but people on this message board went wild on the JD deal right away. We couldn't believe that was all JD cost.

The crowd that enjoyed his nationality and looks were in shambles. Turns out Donaldson is a good looking guy as well.

 

[Woodman19]

Wait until you see what our pitchers numbers look like next year compared to what we had this year. Guys like Bass, Pop, Gausman and Manoah are going to see a nice little spike. (which is scary for Gausman and especially Manoah)

 

[canucksfan]

I think why some are cautious with this trade is the potential of Moreno. It's not often an elite defensive catcher comes along that has a good bat as well.

Like I and others have said, they are some question marks with his bat.

 

[djdev]

Didn’t realize Varsho had 27 HRs and 16 SBs. So in addition to elite defense, versatility he has some power and better base running. Good player to have.

Teo had 25 HRs and 6 SBs.

he also apparently has the highest pull% in mlb. the changes to the shift could help this guy in a huge way

 

[Fantomas]

Moreno didn't overwhelm me last season. He can hit but not much power. He can catch but not at an elite level defensively. I could be wrong.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Im looking forward to the complaining about his low batting average while he mashes 30 HR and puts up more WAR than all the other players we could have had in the OF in his place.

His batting average, on base percentage and strikeouts are concerning.

 

[theaub]

Honestly this trade hits pretty much all the boxes on the 'generic angry fan online' checklist

- NL West player so no one's ever seen him play
- Defense/versatility undervalued
- Traded for flawed fan favourite player and blocked top prospect

 

[CabanaBoy5]

If anything, this trade, along with Teo's, leads to a more mature approach to games. Maybe now the shenanigans in the dugout will cease and more focus will be on the game.

 

[djdev]

i personally really like how this team looks atm, i was screaming for defense all year and we have it in spades now(apart from bo lol) and got rid of a big part of the sillyness of this core. i like watching our guys have fun but we really lacked urgency and intensity in big moments. i think we win the division this year honestly.