Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season Edition II - Winter Meeting Madness

[canucksfan]

Good point

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

lol its crazy to me that people think so little of merrifield here. his career numbers up until last year where he had a bit of a down year were that of a nearly elite top of the order bat. dude is capable of hitting .300 with an on base of .340ish with 40 doubles and 40 stolen bases with a low strikeout %.

He was pretty terrible with the bat in 2021 as well. Shouldn't really expect much from him this year.

 

[MAB1]

Assuming he's the everyday 2B, but if he were to fill in for KK/Varsho in the OF vs lefties, another guy would still need to cover the other.

Espinal is better defensively at 2B than Merrifield.

 

[dredeye]

Merry Christmas to us. Huge price but equally huge addition

 

[djdev]

Assuming he's the everyday 2B, but if he were to fill in for KK/Varsho in the OF vs lefties, another guy would still need to cover the other.

honestly if im the Fo im shuffling the inf..bo is such a liablility defensively.
regardless, i think they find an everyday spot for whit, hes a great player and the type of player we dont have alot of.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I'm not sure what to think of this deal. I really love Varsho. A year ago I was probably the highest of Moreno, and while I still really like him, the power issues this season scared me a little bit. I would have been willing to move Kirk and keep Moreno for the right deal but this makes sense too. While it would have been preferable to get Carroll it sounds like that was never on the table. Our OF defense now is downright elite, and Varsho can catch in a pinch so there's no concerns about needing to roster a 3rd catcher just to DH 1 of the 2 we have. Depending on how willing Varsho is to catch regularly you may not need to recall a black hole catcher even if one of Jansen or Kirk gets injured. Moving Gurriel out is weird since we need a good hitting 4th OF now, but it's preferable to some of the equivalent pieces(The 3 above and below him on BTV are Toman, Barger, Pop, Cimber, Macko, Bass)

As with any big move I'm scared shitless this will blow up in our face. Moreno could end up a hall of famer. But catcher for an outfielder seemed to be inevitable at some point, and we've plugged the CF hole we desperately needed for at least 4 years now.

 

[Eyedea]

Espinal is better defensively at 2B than Merrifield.

Also better than Bo at SS but I think they value Merrifield's bat and baserunning more.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Varsho is one of the most valuable defensive players in all of baseball, under team control for another 4 years and his batted ball profile looks pretty good and shows potential for improvement. I am beyond excited that we have completely over hauled our OF defense. Going to be one of those things that most people don't realize until all of a sudden a whole bunch of doubles last year are outs this year. Also pretty clear managements comments about not wanting to change the makeup of this group after the collapse was not true lol consider the makeup of the team completely changed.

 

[Haringoth]

This is a really good defensive team now

 

[MAB1]

1. Springer (RF)
2. Kirk (DH)
3. Vladdy Jr. (1B)
4. Bichette (SS)
5. Jansen (C)
6. Chapman (3B)
7. Varsho (LF)
8. Merrifield/Espinal(2B)
9. Kiermaier (CF)

I like it, still need a bench bat imo.

 

[canucksfan]

I believe Moreno hit a lot of groundballs last year even in AAA.

Trying to justify giving up Moreno because he would easily become an elite catcher.

 

[dredeye]

I mean, I love it from a team construction aspect. We turned our dogshit outfield defense into likely the best outfield in baseball. Moreno kinda hurts to lose but hes still just a prospect and we added a legit Left handed batter into the lineup.

Lots of overreaction to this one but like you I’m happy with it. Great add and our outfield looks great. Pitchers will look better as a result of the improved d as well. I didn’t think there was any way we’d see teo and Gurriel go in the same off season. But here we are and I have no issue with it. Both impending free agents move in deals that make us better

 

[phillipmike]

lol its crazy to me that people think so little of merrifield here. his career numbers up until last year where he had a bit of a down year were that of a nearly elite top of the order bat. dude is capable of hitting .300 with an on base of .340ish with 40 doubles and 40 stolen bases with a low strikeout %.

I’m not really insulting Merrifield. He isn’t better than the 5-6 guys I listed so he will be hitting in the bottom 3rd of the order.

Merrifield is a career 104 OPS+ player and if you take out 2022, he is 106. You don’t need to replace Teo’s offensive production, but Merrifield doesn’t really offset that because he is slightly above league average his career. Something we already got from Espinal last year with his 99 OPS+ in 2022.

 

[MAB1]

Also better than Bo at SS but I think they value Merrifield's bat and baserunning more.

Either way Merrifield can get his at bats as 2B or 4th OF, with Espinal coming in late game.

 

[Blitzkrug]

That's a hefty price to pay but it makes a ton of sense for both teams on paper.

This leads me to believe Jansen didn't have as much value as many expected.

 

[Langdon Alger]

RF Springer
SS Bichette
1B Vladdy
DH Kirk
LF Varsho
3B Chapman
C Jansen
CF Kiermaier
2B Espinal

 

[djdev]

He was pretty terrible with the bat in 2021 as well. Shouldn't really expect much from him this year.

hitting .280 with 74 rbis, 42 doubles and 40 stolen bases is "pretty terrible"?????

 

[Avilaj07]

Springer
Kiermaier
Bichette
Vlad
Varsho
Kirk (DH)
Chapman
Merrifield
Jansen

That's an absolute loaded well balanced offensive lineup, not too mention, much improved defensively as well

 

[dredeye]

I believe Moreno hit a lot of groundballs last year even in AAA.

Trying to justify giving up Moreno because he would easily become an elite catcher.

He will be an elite catcher for sure. But Jansen if he can stay healthy is a special catcher himself and Kirk is getting better. I figured it would be Kirk to go and that was probably my preference but I’m good with this

 

[theaub]

My side note question is wtf is Arizona planning to do with Gurriel? Which leads me to believe its a salary dump and the Jays are going to add more.

 

[canucksfan]

My side note question is wtf is Arizona planning to do with Gurriel? Which leads me to believe its a salary dump and the Jays are going to add more.

As another poster mentioned I think the front office wanted a more business approach to the game and wanted Gurriel and Teoscar gone. Furthermore, both players, especially Gurriel really struggle defensively.

I think the team adds a righty bat that can play the outfielder. What's nice is the player doesn't need to be good defensively.

 

[ryno23]

Poor Vlad. In one off season the Barrio got rezoned and is no longer lol. Lots of fans will be happy there isn't a CLIQUE at the end of the dugout hanging out and laughing when they are down 6-0 in game lol

 

[Haringoth]

Baseball Savant has him as the best defensive OF in the game.

 

[canucksfan]

He will be an elite catcher for sure. But Jansen if he can stay healthy is a special catcher himself and Kirk is getting better. I figured it would be Kirk to go and that was probably my preference but I’m good with this

Defensively he will be but will his bat develop into above average.

 

[Discoverer]

I'm a little surprised at the negative reactions here. I'm disappointed about Gurriel because I think keeping him would make the team ready to go, but this makes the team a LOT better. They probably have the best defensive OF in the league now, and maybe the best defensive team overall.

Varsho wasn't bad offensively last year - a 106 wRC+ isn't a huge drop from Gurriel's 114 - and it's way easier to find someone to platoon with Varsho.

The cost was high, but it's not exactly cheap to find a 26-year-old with 4 years of control coming off a 4.6 fWAR season.