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Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season discussion: Two signings. Rinse, Repeat add 1.

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phillipmike said:


At the 17:30 mark, Scott Mitchell says that Soler signing is imminent and "wouldnt be surprised if he signs today". Also speculates a Justin Turner fit. JD Martinez too.
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He also says that Chapman turned down 6/120 from the Jays last year. He adds that he could still see Chapman signing here
 
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landy92mack29 said:
I'd much rather bring back Chapman as long as it's 5 yrs or less and use Martinez as a trade chip
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I'd rather play Martinez really. Chapman is still a valuable piece but him with term scares me. Maybe they can get him on a two year deal with an opt out so he can try and reestablish his bat and try again next off season

metafour said:
It's a very big deal from a developmental standpoint, especially at that age. You are trying to evaluate and assign value to players based off of their ability and physicality relative to their peers. A kid can be deemed "very interesting" as a 16 year old prospect and not interesting at all as a 17 year old. In this case if the kid is actually a year older than everyone else, then this impacts his relative "talent" and therefore the amount of money he should get. The Blue Jays were evaluating Blanco under the belief that he was one of the youngest players eligible in the class.

This is also why most scouting models tend to ding overaged HS prospects. In some cases you have kids that are 19 years old and HS seniors, but you are comparing them to 18 year olds and even some kids who are still 17. That 19 year old should therefore be noticeably better by virtue of not only being more physically mature, but also due to the sheer fact that they have been alive longer and therefore have likely practiced baseball more.

Former Jays HS draftee John Tolisano is a good example. He was an overaged HS kid who at one point in his development was named by BA as being the best HS player in his class (I think it was as a 16 year old). But by the time he was actually drafted he had fallen to 2nd/3rd round status because his development stagnated and he got passed up by a lot of other hitters. At 16 he was the best because he was older than his peers and much further along; but once others started hitting their growth spurts they closed the gap and many surpassed him. He never actually developed into anything.
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That was where my head was at that at that age that one year could remove a lot of projection, but I'm surprised it took so much away. Maybe they tried to re negotiate and it didn't fly
 
I think Bellinger is the big signing this team needs as in we need to do something to give us a boost in this window and a young(ish), left-hitting CF/1B checks a lot of boxes. There's risk for sure, but I think there is risk is not going for it now also.

He moves Kiermayer to a platoon OF, which is better. He can also spell Vladdy at first, which is better (I won't even fantasize about Vlad being for enough to play some 3B).

To this l we add a bargain RH DH bat (who ever doesn't sign elsewhere will be fine for us).

We have the starting pitching, bullpen and D. We have a very flexible roster and we have a better offense when we add Bellinger to our existing core. We keep our prospects this way too.

C - Jansen/Kirk/KF/Varsho
1B - Guerrero/Bellinger/Biggio
2B - Biggio/Schneider/Espinal/KF
SS - Bichette/KF/Espinal
3B - KF/Biggio/Espinal
CF - Bellinger/Kiermayer/Varsho/KF/Springer
RF - Springer/Varsho/KF
LF - Varsho/KF/Biggio
DH - RH FA + Springer/Vladdy/Bellinger/Kirk

It's a decent, balanced, flexible and deep roster. Much less so without Bellinger. We still have Martinez and Barger and others try to win a spot too.
 
conFABulator said:
I think Bellinger is the big signing this team needs as in we need to do something to give us a boost in this window and a young(ish), left-hitting CF/1B checks a lot of boxes. There's risk for sure, but I think there is risk is not going for it now also.

He moves Kiermayer to a platoon OF, which is better. He can also spell Vladdy at first, which is better (I won't even fantasize about Vlad being for enough to play some 3B).

To this l we add a bargain RH DH bat (who ever doesn't sign elsewhere will be fine for us).

We have the starting pitching, bullpen and D. We have a very flexible roster and we have a better offense when we add Bellinger to our existing core. We keep our prospects this way too.

C - Jansen/Kirk/KF/Varsho
1B - Guerrero/Bellinger/Biggio
2B - Biggio/Schneider/Espinal/KF
SS - Bichette/KF/Espinal
3B - KF/Biggio/Espinal
CF - Bellinger/Kiermayer/Varsho/KF/Springer
RF - Springer/Varsho/KF
LF - Varsho/KF/Biggio
DH - RH FA + Springer/Vladdy/Bellinger/Kirk

It's a decent, balanced, flexible and deep roster. Much less so without Bellinger. We still have Martinez and Barger and others try to win a spot too.
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I had actually assumed the ship had sailed on Bellinger. If he's determined his market won't turn out the way he envisioned, maybe it proves viable for us to sign him. That would dramatically change the narrative on the Jays off-season.
 
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Thornbury said:
I had actually assumed the ship had sailed on Bellinger. If he's determined his market won't turn out the way he envisioned, maybe it proves viable for us to sign him. That would dramatically change the narrative on the Jays off-season.
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Yeah, we don't need the market to come down too much for Bellinger to make sense. Maybe 6 x 30m? It's what FAs cost and we can't keep losing to teams that spend this on FA bats while we are not. The have seats to fill at the RC this year. Time to take the leap and change that narrative.

I think we look quite good with Bellinger on the roster.
 
conFABulator said:
Yeah, we don't need the market to come down too much for Bellinger to make sense. Maybe 6 x 30m? It's what FAs cost and we can't keep losing to teams that spend this on FA bats while we are not. The have seats to fill at the RC this year. Time to take the leap and change that narrative.

I think we look quite good with Bellinger on the roster.
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I assume if he doesn't get what he wants he'll want to sign for 1 year? He's young enough that if he can prove he can do what he did last year for another year he might get what he wants.

Suntouchable13 said:
I am still waiting on that imminent signing of Jorge Soler. These "insiders" really know nothing.
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Nobody remember the insider who was wrong. Everyone remember the insider who was right. You can be wrong your whole insider career predicting moves with knowledge coming from your *** and then be right once like a broken clock and you'll be the most famous guy for a short while.
 
Suntouchable13 said:
I am still waiting on that imminent signing of Jorge Soler. These "insiders" really know nothing.
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I assume it's his agent trying to add some pressure to the teams considered to be in the running. Solar can't be happy to be unsigned in late January.
 
Thornbury said:
I assume it's his agent trying to add some pressure to the teams considered to be in the running. Solar can't be happy to be unsigned in late January.
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A lot of the free agents are unhappy still. I am glad that GMs are being much smarter now and not just throwing huge money for these players. Good on them.
 
Suntouchable13 said:
I am still waiting on that imminent signing of Jorge Soler. These "insiders" really know nothing.
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I'm wondering if it is another visa/immigration thing. The Jays were reported as the front runner for Yariel Rodriquez weeks before he signed and then a few weeks after that Rosenthal reported the immigration issue. Since then it has been reported by prominent sources that he reportedly has a deal with the Jays.

Both Yariel and Soler are Cuban - so could be another immigration issue that needs sorting out.

Looking back at articles, Jays reportedly signed Kendrys Morales (also Cuban) on November 11th but didnt announce the deal until November 18th.
 
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phillipmike said:
I'm wondering if it is another visa/immigration thing. The Jays were reported as the front runner for Yariel Rodriquez weeks before he signed and then a few weeks after that Rosenthal reported the immigration issue. Since then it has been reported by prominent sources that he reportedly has a deal with the Jays.

Both Yariel and Soler are Cuban - so could be another immigration issue that needs sorting out.

Looking back at articles, Jays reportedly signed Kendrys Morales (also Cuban) on November 11th but didnt announce the deal until November 18th.
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Good point. It’s easy to rail on these media people after Ohtani but this is a legit issue. BUT, a lot of trust has been broken with these people.
 
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Suntouchable13 said:
Good point. It’s easy to rail on these media people after Ohtani but this is a legit issue. BUT, a lot of trust has been broken with these people.
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To be fair, most of them were pretty quiet on the Ohtani thing, weren't there? It was mostly fans speculating (and a little bit of making things up) until Morosi reported the plane thing, and even then it's not like the other big-name reporters jumped on board with that claim.

The biggest issue I have is that the main Jays reporters never break actual news, and in this case they didn't even have enough sources to be able to quash the rumours. I don't get how the big national baseball guys in the US always have information before the Jays guys.
 
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Discoverer said:
To be fair, most of them were pretty quiet on the Ohtani thing, weren't there? It was mostly fans speculating (and a little bit of making things up) until Morosi reported the plane thing, and even then it's not like the other big-name reporters jumped on board with that claim.

The biggest issue I have is that the main Jays reporters never break actually news, and in this case they didn't even enough sources to be able to quash the rumours. I don't get how the big national baseball guys in the US always have information before the Jays guys.
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It’s pretty sad but probably evident of how little gets out on the Jays side. They probably have zero sources outside of this org so the US/national reporters get their info from the other teams/agents involved.

The US reporters being able to blow smoke about the Jays does irritate me though. If BNS and Shi can’t even deny rumours then they’re just relegated to puff pieces and interviews.

The only thing I’ve seen them refute recently is BNS suggesting based on “industry” sources that Domingo German isn’t signing here. And let’s be honest, it doesn’t take an industry source to figure out why they aren’t (or wouldn’t) sign him.
 
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