Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season discussion: Two signings. Rinse, Repeat add 1.

[Bjindaho]

I'm not really sure why that year matters that much.

He's being offered 1.7 on projectability as one of the youngest 16 yo available.
Note: He is still expected to sign with the Jays


From https://www.yardbarker.com/mlb/arti...iod_after_age_falsification/s1_13549_39868730

They noted that he was one of the youngest players in the class, which is ironic with the information we have now. On top of that, he has a “loose stroke” that allows him to spray the ball. Blanco’s bat speed and swing decisions are advanced and as he fills out his 6’2”, 160 lbs frame, he’ll unlock even more power.

Defensively, he’s athletic and has great instincts that allow him to stick at shortstop. While the arm strength is considered average according to MLB Pipeline, it’s something that he can improve as he adds more muscle.

 

[The Iceman]

Soler is not the big splash management promised this off season that is for sure.

I have no interest in the inconsistent Soler. He brings more baggage to the team than production.
Good one year, bad the next.

BO referenced leadership when speaking about Turner and Martinez. That should tell you he feels the group needs some.

Turner for me, he is a pain in the a$$ to play against and can play a little 3B which is a need.

*Biggest wish is Cubs sign Bellinger and feel minor league bat Owen Caissie is expendable.
He would be perfect for the Jays. A future BIG stick.

 

[Discoverer]

Soler is not the big splash management promised this off season that is for sure.

I have no interest in the inconsistent Soler. He brings more baggage to the team than production.
Good one year, bad the next.

BO referenced leadership when speaking about Turner and Martinez. That should tell you he feels the group needs some.

Turner for me, he is a pain in the a$$ to play against and can play a little 3B which is a need.

*Biggest wish is Cubs sign Bellinger and feel minor league bat Owen Caissie is expendable.
He would be perfect for the Jays. A future BIG stick.

What baggage does Soler bring? Maybe I missed or forgot about something.

I have similar concerns about Soler's inconsistent production over the years, but I don't see how a 39-year-old Turner who's been in consistent decline the last few years offers any more certainty as a DH, and I don't think the ability to kind of fake it at 3B now and then balances that out.

 

[Kurtz]

Soler is not the big splash management promised this off season that is for sure.

I have no interest in the inconsistent Soler. He brings more baggage to the team than production.
Good one year, bad the next.

BO referenced leadership when speaking about Turner and Martinez. That should tell you he feels the group needs some.

Turner for me, he is a pain in the a$$ to play against and can play a little 3B which is a need.

*Biggest wish is Cubs sign Bellinger and feel minor league bat Owen Caissie is expendable.
He would be perfect for the Jays. A future BIG stick.

Frankly anything less than Turner+Martinez to replace Chapman and Belt would be a letdown and a downgrade to me. Soler is a pure gamble and Bellinger seems unobtainable given Boras' asking price.

What baggage does Soler bring? Maybe I missed or forgot about something.

I have similar concerns about Soler's inconsistent production over the years, but I don't see how a 39-year-old Turner who's been in consistent decline the last few years offers any more certainty as a DH, and I don't think the ability to kind of fake it at 3B now and then balances that out.

Turner did play the majority of games in his last 2 seasons as a Dodger at 3rd. Obviously wasn't going to get that position in Boston given who they got there, but are we certain that he can't give us 100 games at that position? Did his defensive metrics fall off that badly?

 

[tmlfan98]

Frankly anything less than Turner+Martinez to replace Chapman and Belt would be a letdown and a downgrade to me. Soler is a pure gamble and Bellinger seems unobtainable given Boras' asking price.



Turner did play the majority of games in his last 2 seasons as a Dodger at 3rd. Obviously wasn't going to get that position in Boston given who they got there, but are we certain that he can't give us 100 games at that position? Did his defensive metrics fall off that badly?

Turner and JDM don't even fit on the same team because Turner is a primary DH and JDM is a full time DH. I think Bo meant he wants JDM or Turner not both. Basically Bo is anti-Soler.

 

[Kurtz]

Turner and JDM don't even fit on the same team because Turner is a primary DH and JDM is a full time DH. I think Bo meant he wants JDM or Turner not both. Basically Bo is anti-Soler.

I see Martinez as a guy who can handle some RF given that he won't have to cover much ground with KK and Varsho out there. I see Turner as being able to handle some 3B.

 

[Eyedea]

Soler is not the big splash management promised this off season that is for sure.

I have no interest in the inconsistent Soler. He brings more baggage to the team than production.
Good one year, bad the next.

BO referenced leadership when speaking about Turner and Martinez. That should tell you he feels the group needs some.

Turner for me, he is a pain in the a$$ to play against and can play a little 3B which is a need.

*Biggest wish is Cubs sign Bellinger and feel minor league bat Owen Caissie is expendable.
He would be perfect for the Jays. A future BIG stick.

Always gotta bring up the thought (regarding Canadian players), if he was born in the states would you be singing the same tune? Because Caissie has huge question marks moving forward.

I’d actually consider Rod Black’s son a more legitimate Canadian prospect. Bring Tyler home!

 

[tmlfan98]

I see Martinez as a guy who can handle some RF given that he won't have to cover much ground with KK and Varsho out there. I see Turner as being able to handle some 3B.

My guy, since 2021 JDM has only started 36 games in the OF, and 2021-2023 spans 3 full 162 game seasons. JDM is a full time DH now.

Turner hasn't been a full time 3B since 2021 and has only started 112 games in the field over the last 2 full seasons (73 of those 112 at 3B).

How are both of these players supposed to be everyday bats if there's only 1 DH position?

 

[Discoverer]

Frankly anything less than Turner+Martinez to replace Chapman and Belt would be a letdown and a downgrade to me. Soler is a pure gamble and Bellinger seems unobtainable given Boras' asking price.



Turner did play the majority of games in his last 2 seasons as a Dodger at 3rd. Obviously wasn't going to get that position in Boston given who they got there, but are we certain that he can't give us 100 games at that position? Did his defensive metrics fall off that badly?

It's certainly possible that I'm putting too much stock in his tiny sample from last year (just 57 innings in which he somehow managed -3 DRS, -1.9 UZR, and -4 OAA). I just see a guy who was a little below average for a few years then became primarily a DH at 38 and seems to have really struggled when he did get in at 3B, and I really struggle to see him being an adequate defender when moving back to the position at 39.

I'm not even against bringing in Turner, I just don't see much that makes any of the remaining options that much better than the others.

Martinez is 36 and purely a DH.
Soler mashes the shit out of the ball but he's wildly inconsistent and basically a DH, too.
Turner is 39 and mostly a DH, though he can play a little 3B/1B. He's also slower than everyone on the team other than Kirk and his Statcast data is a bit dicey.

Honestly, just give Bellinger a bunch of money and hope for the best at this point.

 

[Suntouchable13]

It's certainly possible that I'm putting too much stock in his tiny sample from last year (just 57 innings in which he somehow managed -3 DRS, -1.9 UZR, and -4 OAA). I just see a guy who was a little below average for a few years then became primarily a DH at 38 and seems to have really struggled when he did get in at 3B, and I really struggle to see him being an adequate defender when moving back to the position at 39.

I'm not even against bringing in Turner, I just don't see much that makes any of the remaining options that much better than the others.

Martinez is 36 and purely a DH.
Soler mashes the shit out of the ball but he's wildly inconsistent and basically a DH, too.
Turner is 39 and mostly a DH, though he can play a little 3B/1B. He's also slower than everyone on the team other than Kirk and his Statcast data is a bit dicey.

Honestly, just give Bellinger a bunch of money and hope for the best at this point.

Man, the market sucks so bad. I guess there is nothing Atkins can or could do. There are no good players available at all. Lots of really flawed players out there. We are going to be stuck with the likes of IKF, Espinal, and Biggio getting starts at 3rd base.

 

[weems]

The biggest wildcard in our organization is Orelvis Martinez.
We could possibly have a hole at 3B with Chapman signing elsewhere.
Had a good season last year finishing at AAA, so will be interesting to see if he's traded to upgrade our roster or kept and promoted soon.
His power is undeniable.

 

[tmlfan98]

Honestly, just give Bellinger a bunch of money and hope for the best at this point.

Ewwwwwww, let's not overpay Bellinger.

Chapman/Bellinger gonna be this year's Kendrys Morales panic add for Atkins if he panics and gives either one of them 20M AAV or more.

 

[GreytWun]

The last thing we need is an inconsistent bat. Soler ain’t it. would be a bad off-season if that is the last piece we go into the year with.

 

[Eyedea]

The biggest wildcard in our organization is Orelvis Martinez.
We could possibly have a hole at 3B with Chapman signing elsewhere.
Had a good season last year finishing at AAA, so will be interesting to see if he's traded to upgrade our roster or kept and promoted soon.
His power is undeniable.

If he continues to walk like he did last year, outlook will be super positive. He might not be an SS or even a 3B moving forward, but park him at 2B and he could provide Semien type power and production which is a huge commodity at that position.

Might be a case where Barger takes on 3B until RF opens up, or they of course look for an external option.

 

[Eyedea]

The last thing we need is an inconsistent bat. Soler ain’t it. would be a bad off-season if that is the last piece we go into the year with.

One thing Soler does have is great peripherals that have spanned 6 straight seasons now. For whatever reason he hasn’t hit to the level of his expected stats. Could be a case of being a flyball dominant hitter in two homerun suppressive home environments (KC and Miami). His years in KC were even more apparent where, had he played in the AL East, he would have likely hit 50+ in 2019 and 40+ in 2021.

He also walks a solid amount and doesn’t chase nearly as much as you’d expect from a guy with his power. I was in camp Pederson but based on his deal it looked like he wasn’t interested in moving away from the west coast. Soler is a perfectly fine alternative.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

The biggest wildcard in our organization is Orelvis Martinez.
We could possibly have a hole at 3B with Chapman signing elsewhere.
Had a good season last year finishing at AAA, so will be interesting to see if he's traded to upgrade our roster or kept and promoted soon.
His power is undeniable.

That would be great but reports suggest he's not very good at 3B. It's strange because when we signed him they were projecting him as a plus third baseman and even comparing him to Adrian Beltre. Not sure what happened.

 

[GreytWun]

One thing Soler does have is great peripherals that have spanned 6 straight seasons now. For whatever reason he hasn’t hit to the level of his expected stats. Could be a case of being a flyball dominant hitter in two homerun suppressive home environments (KC and Miami). His years in KC were even more apparent where, had he played in the AL East, he would have likely hit 50+ in 2019 and 40+ in 2021.

He also walks a solid amount and doesn’t chase nearly as much as you’d expect from a guy with his power. I was in camp Pederson but based on his deal it looked like he wasn’t interested in moving away from the west coast. Soler is a perfectly fine alternative.

Would you take Soler or JD though ? I would take JD although he would basically only be DH.

 

[The Iceman]

Always gotta bring up the thought (regarding Canadian players), if he was born in the states would you be singing the same tune? Because Caissie has huge question marks moving forward.

I’d actually consider Rod Black’s son a more legitimate Canadian prospect. Bring Tyler home!

Interesting take you have, I do have some inside knowledge of the player having coached him for a number of years through rep baseball.

Will see if your sources or mine end up being correct, he is still just 21 years old with legit +power.

 

[metafour]

I'm not really sure why that year matters that much.

It's a very big deal from a developmental standpoint, especially at that age. You are trying to evaluate and assign value to players based off of their ability and physicality relative to their peers. A kid can be deemed "very interesting" as a 16 year old prospect and not interesting at all as a 17 year old. In this case if the kid is actually a year older than everyone else, then this impacts his relative "talent" and therefore the amount of money he should get. The Blue Jays were evaluating Blanco under the belief that he was one of the youngest players eligible in the class.

This is also why most scouting models tend to ding overaged HS prospects. In some cases you have kids that are 19 years old and HS seniors, but you are comparing them to 18 year olds and even some kids who are still 17. That 19 year old should therefore be noticeably better by virtue of not only being more physically mature, but also due to the sheer fact that they have been alive longer and therefore have likely practiced baseball more.

Former Jays HS draftee John Tolisano is a good example. He was an overaged HS kid who at one point in his development was named by BA as being the best HS player in his class (I think it was as a 16 year old). But by the time he was actually drafted he had fallen to 2nd/3rd round status because his development stagnated and he got passed up by a lot of other hitters. At 16 he was the best because he was older than his peers and much further along; but once others started hitting their growth spurts they closed the gap and many surpassed him. He never actually developed into anything.

 

[Discoverer]

Interesting take you have, I do have some inside knowledge of the player having coached him for a number of years through rep baseball.

Will see if your sources or mine end up being correct, he is still just 21 years old with legit +power.

You don't need sources or a personal connection with the player to see the red flags associated with a 31% K-rate in AA.

 

[Eyedea]

Would you take Soler or JD though ? I would take JD although he would basically only be DH.

I’d take Soler moving forward but JD would be a good option to replace Belt on like a 1 year pure DH role. There’s just more risk there due to age, versatility, whiff, and chase rates.

 

[phillipmike]

At the 17:30 mark, Scott Mitchell says that Soler signing is imminent and "wouldnt be surprised if he signs today". Also speculates a Justin Turner fit. JD Martinez too.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

At the 17:30 mark, Scott Mitchell says that Soler signing is imminent and "wouldnt be surprised if he signs today". Also speculates a Justin Turner fit. JD Martinez too.

Signing 3 DH types would explain some of the prior versatile glove acquisitions we made, as I predicted.

 

[Ale Brew]

Signing 3 DH types would explain some of the prior versatile glove acquisitions we made, as I predicted.

I don’t think there’s any chance we sign all 3. Not only the cost, but these guys would know they’d be limiting their playing time.

At most they sign Soler or JD Martinez to DH, and then add Turner to play around the infield (mostly 3b). At least Soler can play a little OF and let KK or Varsho sit against lefties, which would open up DH for Turner.

Honestly though, I think we just get Soler, and possibly add an IF through trade.

 

[landy92mack29]

I'd much rather bring back Chapman as long as it's 5 yrs or less and use Martinez as a trade chip