Oakland A's to play in Sacramento for a few years while Las Vegas stadium is built

[LadyStanley]

I've read recent news stories that the A's would bring in an additional 400k to 800k folks/year in visitors (to the annual 44m level pre-pandemic; haven't seen recent #s).

There's a luxury casino/resort (Red Rock) literally across the street from the Las Vegas Ball Park. Or it's a 20ish minute ride share from a Strip hotel to the ball park. (There are a handful of hotel accommodations in Summerlin, but the Red Rock is nearest to the ball park.)

(I believe Red Rock is where VGK put up their players, e.g., newly traded/acquired, and prospects for development camp.)

Summerlin is still expanding, so one or more neighborhoods might become home for future MLB players/staff, even after arena is built. (There's a reason the VGK players live in Summerlin. Some of the Raiders players too, but many live in Henderson to be near the practice facility. Especially with nearly crack-of-dawn practice calls to allow for workouts before the heat of the day.)

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

The Henderson and Vegas Knights have the same owner; same as the San Jose Sharks and Barracuda. The NHL owners don't care if their AHL team makes very little money or loses it, it's still better for player development benefits.

But the Las Vegas Aviators owner is independent and HAD the top baseball team in the city, and now he won't. He gains nothing from the Las Vegas Athletics moving to town.

The last 16 or so Triple A teams in that position have moved when an MLB team arrived.


And I know you've got the St Paul Saints and Sugar Land Space Cowboys in Triple A now... but they were independent clubs that started DECADES after the MLB team was there (and in both cases, the minor league team LEFT when MLB showed up) and got "promoted" to Triple A in a "once in a lifetime" situation --

The pandemic hit as MLB was trying to reorganize the minors (based on facility quality). COVID canceled minor league baseball so MLB had taxi squads nearby. Those stadiums served as Taxi Squad sites for MIN and HOU. Houston was spearheading the Minor League Reorganization, and said "these facilities are nicer than some Triple A teams.... we never considered Independents in our reorganization."

Going from an Independent team to a Triple A team is a massive talent upgrade for a minor league team that found their niche in an MLB market. The St. Paul Saints started right between the Twins winning a World Series and the 1994 strike. They weren't competing, they were additional, and found a niche.


Do you think the Aviators are going to lose fans if the Athletics show up? And do you think the Aviators are going to lose fans if the Athletics build an air conditioned stadium?

I didn't know the saints made the leap to AAA!

I was in bc at the time, but that's awesome for them.

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Look at how popular the Browns-Ravens and Texans-Titans rivalries are in the NFL.

A rivalry between the A's and a replacement team in Oakland could be very fun for that very reason.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Raiders owner Mark Davis blasts Oakland A's proposed move to Las Vegas

Las Vegas Raiders Mark Davis aired his grievances regarding the Oakland A's potential relocation to his city.

sports.yahoo.com

NFL Raiders owner recounts some if the things the A's ownership did in Oakland to help his team decide to relocate.

And I am sure Bill Foley is not thrilled either.

Look at how popular the Browns-Ravens and Texans-Titans rivalries are in the NFL.

A rivalry between the A's and a replacement team in Oakland could be very fun for that very reason.

No one, and I mean literally no one, cares about Browns/Ravens and Texans/Titans.

 

[GKJ]

And I am sure Bill Foley is not thrilled either.


No one, and I mean literally no one, cares about Browns/Ravens and Texans/Titans.

I don’t know if I agree with the Browns and Ravens, the issue is obviously that the Browns have been bad for so long, but the NFL won’t put Art Modell into the hall of fame, in part because of his role in that but also because they think Browns fans will hijack the enshrinement.

But yeah, no one cares about the Titans and Texans.

Of course the original point isn’t as valid as given that Oakland wouldn’t need a replacement team they would’ve been willing to fork up to give the A’s one anytime over the last, like, 30 years, so they won’t get one.

edit: apparently this exists:

 

[KevFu]

I would totally agree that Cleveland has big rivalries with the Bengals, Steelers and Ravens.

The people of Cleveland HATE the Ravens because Art Modell moved the Browns to Baltimore.

But Baltimore does not return the same hate, because (a) they feel that way about the Colts and the Ravens fans were totally sympathetic for Cleveland and (b) the Browns have kinda been terrible and never really an obstacle to the Ravens.

 

[MMC]

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Look at how popular the Browns-Ravens and Texans-Titans rivalries are in the NFL.

A rivalry between the A's and a replacement team in Oakland could be very fun for that very reason.

Unless you're a fan of one of those two teams literally no one else cares.

 

[KevFu]

I understand the desire to find someone to blame, but there's just so much to go around that you can't really blame anyone.

The average lifespan of MLB stadiums that have opened since 1953 has been 32 years.

The Coliseum should have been replaced by 1998.

 

[LadyStanley]

Rob Manfred 'sorry' for A's fans over team move, says owner John Fisher isn't to blame

Manfred is positive that moving to Vegas will make the A's competitive, though he didn't explain why or how that would happen.

sports.yahoo.com

Manfred expresses sympathy for Oakland fans, but says hatred toward owner misplaced.

 

[GindyDraws]

Rob Manfred 'sorry' for A's fans over team move, says owner John Fisher isn't to blame

Manfred is positive that moving to Vegas will make the A's competitive, though he didn't explain why or how that would happen.

sports.yahoo.com

Manfred expresses sympathy for Oakland fans, but says hatred toward owner misplaced.

No, it's very placed.

 

[KevFu]

I don't think the blame for the A's leaving is absolute on the owner, for reasons I've stated like 4 or 5 times.


But the fans are right about not liking the guy for being a horrible owner who solved HIS problem, not the TEAM'S problem.

 

[LadyStanley]

What's next for the Oakland A's as they plot a move to Las Vegas? 5 big questions that will shape their future

If the A's actually move to Las Vegas, will the depressing state of the franchise improve?

sports.yahoo.com

Obvious questions. Where will they play 24-27? Will the team improve for new market? Etc.

 

[MMC]

 

[KevFu]

That article is paywalled, but I can guess what it says. The Giants ABSOLUTELY deserve a TON of the blame.

The Giants have fought for decades to keep San Jose as their "exclusive territory" when San Jose was, and always should have been, included as "in Market" for BOTH Oakland and San Francisco, and was only given to the Giants in a clerical error in 1999.

A judge ruled that because the (new) owners of the Giants and As both signed MLB documents which listed the WRONG interpretation (multiple times), they're legally bound to the wrong interpretation.

The A's should have been in San Jose decades ago.

 

[LadyStanley]

Oakland A's reportedly moving to Las Vegas: Who is to blame?

If you're wondering whom to blame for the A's leaving Oakland for Las Vegas, well, the situation is complicated. Let's break it down.

sports.yahoo.com

Editorial. Puts blame for relocating primarily on ownership, current and past.

 

[KevFu]

Oakland A's reportedly moving to Las Vegas: Who is to blame?

If you're wondering whom to blame for the A's leaving Oakland for Las Vegas, well, the situation is complicated. Let's break it down.

sports.yahoo.com

Editorial. Puts blame for relocating primarily on ownership, current and past.

The writer misses two others who need to take their share of the blame: The Giants (who blocked a San Jose Stadium) and Raiders (who extorted so much money from the city of Oakland to return that nothing was left to make the Coliseum viable for the A's).

The writer talks about the city saying NO to the A's wanting $855 million for Howard Terminal...

But Mount Davis cost $500m and the Raiders were allowed to default on $190m they owed Oakland when they left with no repercussions.

 

[stats1]

That article is paywalled, but I can guess what it says. The Giants ABSOLUTELY deserve a TON of the blame.

The Giants have fought for decades to keep San Jose as their "exclusive territory" when San Jose was, and always should have been, included as "in Market" for BOTH Oakland and San Francisco, and was only given to the Giants in a clerical error in 1999.

A judge ruled that because the (new) owners of the Giants and As both signed MLB documents which listed the WRONG interpretation (multiple times), they're legally bound to the wrong interpretation.

The A's should have been in San Jose decades ago.

How does that work..so the judge basically said both of you screwed up so both of gotta live with it… wouldn’t it have been better if the judge said ok since both parties interpreted it wrong let’s come together and fix it instead of just accepting documents that both parties interpret wrong

 

[KevFu]

How does that work..so the judge basically said both of you screwed up so both of gotta live with it… wouldn’t it have been better if the judge said ok since both parties interpreted it wrong let’s come together and fix it instead of just accepting documents that both parties interpret wrong

The documents for purchasing their teams included the "incorrect" territorial language, and every CBA also includes it. Those documents were signed by Oakland owners, and in some cases every owner of MLB.

Therefore, it's a legal contract saying that San Jose is exclusive Giants territory, whether it was supposed to be or not; Oakland agreed to that by signing.

It CAN be changed, quite easily. As long as the Giants sign. But they refuse. Their ownership refuses to give up San Jose regardless of how they got it.

Honestly, MLB should have changed it back to the original intention and tried to slip it by the Giants on every round of documents since.

 

[MMC]

 

[Big Z Man 1990]

Baseball stadiums with roofs can come in handy for events that have too much demand to be held in a basketball/hockey specific arena but not enough demand to be held in a football stadium with a roof.

Las Vegas needs one with the weather. But in fact, MLB should require all new stadiums come with roofs, with retractable roofs being preferred so that games can be held outdoors when the weather is nice. Existing open-air stadiums would be grandfathered. The idea is for MLB to one day eliminate rainouts, though postponements for other reasons (which are more rare than simple rainouts) can still occur.

Furthermore, retractable roof stadiums can also come with retractable grass fields (like State Farm Stadium has).

 

[LadyStanley]

Looking at a number of things that happened from building the original Oaklnad stadium "in the wrong place" in the 1960s, and since.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

Fisher has always seemed to believe that Vegas was the better option, right from the start. He just hoped that Oakland would break and give him, like, $3 billion and all the tax breaks in the world to stay in town, but the town refused to budge.

I'm just more concerned about how Vegas is going to support three major sports teams and all the minor leagues with a small media market and a population that's, to be honest, very poor.

Tourism?

I've been to Vegas twice before the Knights showed up. Them having three sports teams would definitely motivate me to go even more. And unlike other cities, it's already a tourist haven, just gives a little incentive for fans to plan a trip. I've noticed the Raiders games have about half of the crowd wearing their opponent's jersey. Whether that's enough, time will tell.

 

[GindyDraws]

Tourism?

I've been to Vegas twice before the Knights showed up. Them having three sports teams would definitely motivate me to go even more. And unlike other cities, it's already a tourist haven, just gives a little incentive for fans to plan a trip. I've noticed the Raiders games have about half of the crowd wearing their opponent's jersey. Whether that's enough, time will tell.

It'll definitely encourage fans of visiting teams to go, what with the casinos, the tourist attractions, and the desert offering various things for people to be interested in. But I'm talking about building a native fanbase. It's sort of the problem with, for example, the Los Angeles Chargers. LA is not a Chargers town, never was.

 

[ichbinkanadier]

It'll definitely encourage fans of visiting teams to go, what with the casinos, the tourist attractions, and the desert offering various things for people to be interested in. But I'm talking about building a native fanbase. It's sort of the problem with, for example, the Los Angeles Chargers. LA is not a Chargers town, never was.

I hear ya. It is an interesting case study because it is interesting if the tourists can offset the smaller local fan base. Given these leagues are investing, I have to think perhaps?

One thing that is interesting about Vegas is it's definitely a transplant town, so I wonder- further to your point- hie much of a dedicated local fan base these teams can get.