Confirmed Trade: [NYR/OTT] Mika Zibanejad & 2018 2nd round pick for Derick Brassard & 2018 7th rounder

[darko]

Now the rangers have two habs killers. The goalie crusher and the puck kicker

Yup. The guy that kicks the pucks in and the guy that gets tripped up into a goalie.

 

[SpezDispenser]

IMO that's a playoff team in the east. Dorion also wants to add a bottom pairing defensemen

That would be great. That's a major concern. The other two are Mac's health and 3rd line rw

 

[Neil Hamburger]

Short-term:

Ottawa probably wins this trade - although that's no sure thing, as Zib could take a big step forward this season or next (or Brassard could regress).

Long-term:

NYR definitely wins the trade with the better pick and 5 years younger player.



I like the trade more for NYR, because even if the Sens get a little better in the short-term, they aren't winning the cup anytime soon. I think they can make the playoffs, though, Turris-Brassard is a pretty decent one two punch down the middle, like Stepan-Brassard was.

Another thing to note: Ottawa has now dealt away their 2nd round picks in both 2017 & 2018. Their prospect pool is already lacking in depth, after their top couple guys: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2106895

 

[Tawnos]

Stepan is 3 years younger.

He's far, far, far better defensively. On a per game basis, he's slightly more productive than Brassard (in the 3 full seasons they both played with NYR 0.74 vs 0.68). He's right handed when all of the Rangers wingers are left-handed. Plus he's 3 years younger, as you mentioned.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

IMO being Top-30 in points at your position is a better metric than...whatever else people are using.

Yeah. I don't get how Brassard and Stepan don't both qualify as 1Cs. Not high end ones, but 1Cs nonetheless.

He's far, far, far better defensively. On a per game basis, he's slightly more productive than Brassard (in the 3 full seasons they both played with NYR 0.74 vs 0.68). He's right handed when all of the Rangers wingers are left-handed. Plus he's 3 years younger, as you mentioned.

Yeah, I wasn't fully considering the age thing - I'd thought the two were closer in age than they are. I was thinking Brassard was the more offensively gifted one - but I was just looking at their production and realized I was off base on that one.

In any event, I like both players - and I like watching NYR when I have a chance, so too bad they won't be on the same team any more. I don't think anything bad re Zibanejad so am fairly neutral about the trade. Hopefully it works out for both teams.

I got the impression Brassard really liked being in NYC so hopefully he's okay with the trade. Poor Zuccarello - first Hagelin, now Brassard. He'll need to find two new amigos.

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Both teams win this deal (shocking!!!!)

Ottawa gets a #1/2C signed for 3.367 mil salary per season for 3 seasons

NYR sheds 2.375 mil in cap space for this season, and gets a younger, slightly to moderately worse, but with higher potential, and a 2nd round pick to make up that difference.

 

[Mr Positive]

I like this from Ottawa. They want to win now. Their division is a bit weak so it's a smart time to go for it.

Brassard is 28. He's got lots of hockey left I'm sure.

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah, I wasn't fully considering the age thing - I'd thought the two were closer in age than they are. I was thinking Brassard was the more offensively gifted one - but I was just looking at their production and realized I was off base on that one.

In any event, I like both players - and I like watching NYR when I have a chance, so too bad they won't be on the same team any more. I don't think anything bad re Zibanejad so am fairly neutral about the trade. Hopefully it works out for both teams.

I got the impression Brassard really liked being in NYC so hopefully he's okay with the trade. Poor Zuccarello - first Hagelin, now Brassard. He'll need to find two new amigos.

Just to add on to something about Stepan's numbers. They're higher than Brassard's in their time together in NY, but there's an open question about how much higher Stepan's numbers might go if he spent less time in matchups with other team's top forwards. With Zibanejad, AV now has another top-6 center he can trust to play well without the puck against quality opposition. This section from a Larry Brooks article explains it well:

The Rangers wanted — if not needed — a different kind of center behind Derek Stepan and they got it in Zibanejad, who is stronger without the puck and in his own end and projects to be feistier and tougher than the gifted, finesse-oriented Brassard.

They acquired a center who they believe will be a better match against bigger, physical pivots and thus alleviate some of the burden on Stepan, whom coach Alain Vigneault had come to rely on almost exclusively — and ultimately to No. 21’s detriment — the last two years in power-against-power matchups.

I think Zibanejad's feistiness and physicality is probably exaggerated there, but you get the idea. And beyond all of that, I'm a big believer in the definition of roles on hockey teams. Sometimes a team with a clear #1 and #2 center will perform better than a team with two guys who are both kinda #1.

This is a classic retool type of trade. You swap out a player of one description for another player with a different description, but who plays the same position. It's Bonino for Sutter or Brouwer for Oshie, to use two examples from last offseason (which I've used on HFNYR too).

 

[PAZ]

Yeah, Dorion will probably have to consider trading Westbrook at that point as well.

I don't follow the NBA, are the Thunders a budget team to an extent? I thought Durant just left because he had a better opportunity to win elsewhere.

 

[hirawl]

OTT got the better player and it's going to stay that way for at least the remainder of Brassard's contract. Actually I doubt Zib is ever going to get to Brassard's level. Brings another type of game with his physical play but that's not something enough for me to consider this good from the Rangers' pov.

NYR now have got zero #1C and that's a fact. Stepan is good and Zib is good but that's not a serious 1-2 punch down the middle. Definitely not something you'd go contending with. And I mean for a playoff spot.

It's not a bad deal per se but I think it leaves the Rangers kind of strangely weak at C that they'd better turn that 2nd into something of real value to even break even.

 

[MarkStone]

I don't follow the NBA, are the Thunders a budget team to an extent? I thought Durant just left because he had a better opportunity to win elsewhere.

Well the Thunder are to an extent, the main point of the post was that the Karlsson leaving for greener pastures sentiment from alot of posters is a bit much. This isn't the NBA, if you pay your core pieces, they generally stay...especially if they are captains.

 

[MarkStone]

Just to add on to something about Stepan's numbers. They're higher than Brassard's in their time together in NY, but there's an open question about how much higher Stepan's numbers might go if he spent less time in matchups with other team's top forwards. With Zibanejad, AV now has another top-6 center he can trust to play well without the puck against quality opposition. This section from a Larry Brooks article explains it well:



I think Zibanejad's feistiness and physicality is probably exaggerated there, but you get the idea. And beyond all of that, I'm a big believer in the definition of roles on hockey teams. Sometimes a team with a clear #1 and #2 center will perform better than a team with two guys who are both kinda #1.

This is a classic retool type of trade. You swap out a player of one description for another player with a different description, but who plays the same position. It's Bonino for Sutter or Brouwer for Oshie, to use two examples from last offseason (which I've used on HFNYR too).

Larry Brooks has not seen a whole lot of Sens games if he considers Zibanejad a feisty player. Don't get me wrong, he's a good young player but feistiness is not part of his game and so far in his professional career he has not really played a consistent physical game (which he absolutely should be playing).

 

[NHLNUT04]

Senators trade Mika Zibanejad to Rangers for Derick Brassard

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Just to add on to something about Stepan's numbers. They're higher than Brassard's in their time together in NY, but there's an open question about how much higher Stepan's numbers might go if he spent less time in matchups with other team's top forwards. With Zibanejad, AV now has another top-6 center he can trust to play well without the puck against quality opposition. This section from a Larry Brooks article explains it well:



I think Zibanejad's feistiness and physicality is probably exaggerated there, but you get the idea. And beyond all of that, I'm a big believer in the definition of roles on hockey teams. Sometimes a team with a clear #1 and #2 center will perform better than a team with two guys who are both kinda #1.

This is a classic retool type of trade. You swap out a player of one description for another player with a different description, but who plays the same position. It's Bonino for Sutter or Brouwer for Oshie, to use two examples from last offseason (which I've used on HFNYR too).

Or a "young" and "unknown" player he can play down the line up in favour of Glass?

Although Mika's Swedish - and AV likes the Swedes, no?

 

[OmniSens]

I expect Brassard to hit 60 points easily. If Zibby is Zibby, which I hope he won't pull what he normally does, he'll come into next season in shape and not take forever to score. Should hit 40-45 points next season. He's one player that most of the season will frustrate you, wanting more. Also needs to shoot a lot more. Has a tremendous shot, needs to utilize it more.

Here's hoping the Rangers didn't can us.

 

[Riptide]

Why did the Rangers trade Brassard not Stepan - I guess Stepan regarded as a lot better?

I'd liked Brassard a bit more but I probably wasn't paying enough attention.

It's possible that OTT wasn't interest in Stepan. Brassard will make 10m in salary over the next 3 years, Stepan has 30m owing on it over the next 5 years. OTT has a couple young kids coming up over the next 2-3 years that should be nice additions, which means Stepan long term doesn't do as much for OTT as Brassard does.

 

[Riptide]

So what is a #1C to you?

Doesn't really matter how I define it, because to most sane and rational people, there is not 30 of them just because there's 30 teams.

 

[Riptide]

Another thing to note: Ottawa has now dealt away their 2nd round picks in both 2017 & 2018. Their prospect pool is already lacking in depth, after their top couple guys: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2106895

I don't know about you, but I really like 7 of their top 8 prospects that they've voted on. And while they have dealt away their 2nds, they still have their 1st's and 3rds. Their prospect pool can absolutely afford this trade, and honestly, was probably a big part in why they were able to make it.

 

[Beacon]

let the ranger rebuild commence

A couple of similar trades for Nash and Zuccarello(one gets another forward, one gets another defenseman) and the rebuild is pretty much done.

Stepan, Zibaned, Kreider, Miller can play in the top-6 now. That's 4. Buchnevich probably will sooner or later. That's 5. Plus the Rangers get someone for Nash or Zuccarello. That's 6. Hayes had a sophomore slump, but there's a good chance he gets there, still let's leave him for the bottom 6: Hayes (36 points), Fast (30 points), Lindberg (28 in 68 games) can all be third liners immediately, and are young enough that they are improving. Jooris, Hrivik, the the usual couple of annual UFA signings (Grabner and Gerbe this year) fills out the bottom 6.

On Left Defense, McDonagh is on the first pair, Skjei should be at least a second pair and Graves (AHL All Star as a 20 year old rookie) at least a third pair with both having greater potential than that. On the right side, McIlrath is a quality top-6 RD already, acquire one more RD for Nash/Zuccarello and there's just one hole left, which can always be filled through free agency, especially on a team as young as this which would be well-below the cap limit.

 

[WesMcCauley]

Is Brassard the better players? Yes he is. But how much better? Not enough to make up the difference in age and the draft picks.

(He is left handed, but less speedy than Zib and not reliable defensively
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Jan-...or-Zibanejad--18-2nd-Rounder-My-Take/89/78229 )

So why did Ottawa overpay? it was because of the money. Over the long haul, the Sens will pay out less for Brassard than they would have Zibanejad, and when Brassard is ready to step aside, White will be ready.

It was optically sound, good for the pocket books, but poor asset management.

Yep i agree with this. But as much as OTT wanted a LH top 6 forward, NYR wanted a RH top 6 forward badly aswell.

Absolutely no sense for OTT to give up more for Brass unless it was about money.
Its a great trade for us, we suddenly get 5-6 years younger on our #2 center spot without getting much worse right now at all, and we get a 2nd rounder aswell. I love Brass but this was a great trade for us and i dont understand how we got the 2nd rounder? Probably because we payed Brassard`s bonus or something. Still must suck for OTT fans that the owners are cheap.... They have many good pieces on that team and when they decide to spend money they do it on Phaneuf.... He is a pretty good top 4 but 7 mill a year for Phaneuf when they have an internal cap is crazy!

 

[WesMcCauley]

I expect Brassard to hit 60 points easily. If Zibby is Zibby, which I hope he won't pull what he normally does, he'll come into next season in shape and not take forever to score. Should hit 40-45 points next season. He's one player that most of the season will frustrate you, wanting more. Also needs to shoot a lot more. Has a tremendous shot, needs to utilize it more.

Here's hoping the Rangers didn't can us.

This is just a pretty ignorant comment. Why is Zib getting worse and Brass suddenly going to brake 60 for the first time in his career? I have no doubt Brass can score 60 but its not like he will play with better players than he did in NY. Zib gets to play with a better twoway team and a player like Zuccarello will set him up all year long. Dont see how Zib is going to get worse and Brass going to get better... I can easily see both of them breaking 60 or atleast get close to it.

 

[aufheben]

Doesn't really matter how I define it, because to most sane and rational people, there is not 30 of them just because there's 30 teams.

What is the more precise rational? Subjectivity? It's hardly cut/dry like passing an exam but it's not as complicated as evaluating defensemen either. If it's not completely subjective, then what is the alternative production cutoff, and why does it make more sense than top-30? Alternatively, if it is mostly subjective, why is that more rational? It doesn't mean every team has one, either.

 

[sportsdynasty]

Wow surprised Rangers traded away their #1 Center. Nice pickup Ottawa, you'll be a better team with Brassard.

 

[LT]

What is the more precise rational? Subjectivity? It's hardly cut/dry but it's not as complicated as evaluating defensemen. If it's not completely subjective, then what is the alternative cut-off, and why does it make more sense than ~1-30?

I don't think there really is a good way to define a #1 center, or really a #1 anything (goaltending being the exception).

Subjectivity is unavoidable when you have to qualify things in addition to quantifying them. Scouting (which is essentially what this is) requires both.

I think it all starts at the definition though. What is a #1 center to you? The best center on each team, or a player who fits the traditional mold of a #1 center? That answer really sets up how you'd go about ranking players amongst their position.

 

[SB84]

A couple of similar trades for Nash and Zuccarello(one gets another forward, one gets another defenseman) and the rebuild is pretty much done.

Stepan, Zibaned, Kreider, Miller can play in the top-6 now. That's 4. Buchnevich probably will sooner or later. That's 5. Plus the Rangers get someone for Nash or Zuccarello. That's 6. Hayes had a sophomore slump, but there's a good chance he gets there, still let's leave him for the bottom 6: Hayes (36 points), Fast (30 points), Lindberg (28 in 68 games) can all be third liners immediately, and are young enough that they are improving. Jooris, Hrivik, the the usual couple of annual UFA signings (Grabner and Gerbe this year) fills out the bottom 6.

On Left Defense, McDonagh is on the first pair, Skjei should be at least a second pair and Graves (AHL All Star as a 20 year old rookie) at least a third pair with both having greater potential than that. On the right side, McIlrath is a quality top-6 RD already, acquire one more RD for Nash/Zuccarello and there's just one hole left, which can always be filled through free agency, especially on a team as young as this which would be well-below the cap limit.

That's not a great top 6 moving forward though. Looking at those players nobody is a game breaker. If I'm going into MSG to play them i'm not too worried. All fine players, don't get me wrong, but meh.