NYR have named John Lilley Director of Player Personnel and Director of Amateur Scouting.

[duhmetreE]

And within that realm of questioning - where are his success stories for either?

The man has been in a position for almost as long as some of our recent draftees have been alive. So what’s the hook on the resume?

He goes to the same Country Club as Sather.

Or Sather knows his parents

 

[Ola]

When it came to Nemeth, he was terrible because of what his teams' fans were saying. But here Leafs fans think it's a big loss but this guy is still terrible?

I wonder what fans of other teams are saying about us. On every topic our view of a player range from worst in the league to GOAT (almost).

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

And within that realm of questioning - where are his success stories for either?

The man has been in a position for almost as long as some of our recent draftees have been alive. So what’s the hook on the resume?

 

[romba]

He should have answered the question but Yakupov is 100% right. It was a rhetorical question at best but really that's a criticism not a question.

He gave him an opportunity to say he'd learned from it, maybe recognized the immaturity of it, instead he proved how stubborn and immature he truly was. Maybe if Edmonton had asked this rhetorical but very valid question, they wouldn't have wasted all their years trying to turn him into a top player.

 

[frozenrubber]

He has fallen into my web of deception.

What a stunning lie, everyone knows Gallant would NEVER set foot at Boston College, but is enrolled at a summer dance class with AOC at Boston UNIVERSITY

 

[nyr2k2]

I've taken the time to read several Toronto boards and social media threads since last evening and they generally seem disappointed to lose Lilley, particularly because there is a feeling that their last few drafts with him heading amateur scouting have been strong. That would encompass a Nick Robertson, Rasmus Sandin, Nick Abruzzese, Mikhail Abramov, Der-Arguchintsev, and just recently Matt Knies who a lot of people thought was a good pick. Of course all of those guys could bust, too early to say. But, just for context, Maple Leafs fans seem to range from indifferent to genuinely disappointed at his departure, if you want to put any stock into that.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

He gave him an opportunity to say he'd learned from it, maybe recognized the immaturity of it, instead he proved how stubborn and immature he truly was. Maybe if Edmonton had asked this rhetorical but very valid question, they wouldn't have wasted all their years trying to turn him into a top player.

He could have asked in a less "gotcha" way.

 

[Raspewtin]

I have more than a feeling this is true. Probably gets some peace of mind out of it. Amanda

They are all Boston songs

it's been such a Long Time since I've laughed that hard, Drury sure is assembling his own rock n roll band

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I've taken the time to read several Toronto boards and social media threads since last evening and they generally seem disappointed to lose Lilley, particularly because there is a feeling that their last few drafts with him heading amateur scouting have been strong. That would encompass a Nick Robertson, Rasmus Sandin, Nick Abruzzese, Mikhail Abramov, Der-Arguchintsev, and just recently Matt Knies who a lot of people thought was a good pick. Of course all of those guys could bust, too early to say. But, just for context, Maple Leafs fans seem to range from indifferent to genuinely disappointed at his departure, if you want to put any stock into that.

Fans' opinions on players and front office guys only matter if they're bad.

 

[will1066]

He could have asked in a less "gotcha" way.

John Lilley has also been named NYPD Detective at Midtown South.

 

[EpicDing]

He's been in charge in Toronto since 2018, his oldest pick is 22. There's some good names there but it's really too early to tell.

Like others have mentioned Leaf fans seem to be unhappy, so that makes me optimistic.

 

[Thirty One]

But, just for context, Maple Leafs fans seem to range from indifferent to genuinely disappointed at his departure, if you want to put any stock into that.

I've seen far too much of Ranger fans arbitrarily assigning blame/credit to our staff to put any stock into that.

 

[Mandar]

it's been such a Long Time since I've laughed that hard, Drury sure is assembling his own rock n roll band

"Cant ya Say you believe in me?" Lilley must be "feelin Satisfied".....he's probably "Smokin" somewhere.....

 

[Edge]

It's Colorado Avalanche levels of bad drafting.

At the end of the day, we're not poaching someone from Tampa, or Carolina, or LA, or some of the other teams we admire.

If this wasn't announced, no one would be saying, "I know what we need! Let's grab someone from Toronto. They've clearly got their shit together in the scouting/drafting department!"

So, the point of others, we can't say anything definitively at this time. But it's also not a move where you go, "Wow, this looks really good on paper and I think we really nailed this one."

I get it, it's unfair to expect Das Wunderkind to perform magic right out of the gate. But I was hoping for a bit more than what we've seen and by the time get to the third and fourth move, there is a pattern of decent but underwhelming.

I don't think we've done bad. I don't think we've done great. I do think we need to be closer to great to take things to the next level though.

 

[Edge]

No it’s not. The Leafs have had their share of late round hits.

He clearly had the confidence of the Leafs organization. Of course, who knows how much power Dubas held overt the draft boards?

He will be judged on his performance. Let’s leave it at that.

The last player they took outside the top 10 that played more than 400 games in the NHL was selected by them in 2007. That's 14 years!

The last player selected by them outside of the first 34 picks to play more than 100 games in the NHL was selected 8 years ago.

If anything, based on pure coincidence, the last time they had a draft with mid and later round gems was 2006 ---- the year before Lilley joined the organization.

This is their draft record guys:

Toronto Maple Leafs Draft History at hockeydb.com

 

[will1066]

"Cant ya Say you believe in me?" Lilley must be "feelin Satisfied".....he's probably "Smokin" somewhere.....

Lilley is just looking to Hitch A Ride, man -- all the way from Hyannis. So, I don't have a lot of Peace Of Mind. On the other hand, I'm also telling myself, Don't Look Back and Don't Be Afraid.

 

[duhmetreE]

The last player they took outside the top 10 that played more than 400 games in the NHL was selected by them in 2007. That's 14 years!

The last player selected by them outside of the first 34 picks to play more than 100 games in the NHL was selected 8 years ago.

If anything, based on pure coincidence, the last time they had a draft with mid and later round gems was 2006 ---- the year before Lilley joined the organization.

This is their draft record guys:

Toronto Maple Leafs Draft History at hockeydb.com

Them not winning for 55 years makes more sense now.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I don't think we've done bad. I don't think we've done great

This seems to be a recurring theme with pretty much everything Drury has done thus far lol

got a real “doing just enough to get by” vibe to it

 

[Edge]

This seems to be a recurring theme with pretty everything Drury has done thus far lol

got a real “doing just enough to get by” vibe to it

The key with Drury will be the upcoming moves - how we approach the center position, who we keep, who we lose, who we bring in.

I think we're a more balanced team, on paper. I think we're more a versatile team, on paper.

Our success will owe a lot to whether Kakko, Lafreniere and Chytil really step up. If they all really begin to establish themselves as legit, performing top six players you'll have a lot of questions answered. If they struggle, we've got more questions we need to address and the fallout of potential moves.

They key will be patience though. We can't be looking to abandon ship 15 or 20 games in. I think a full season will help with our ebbs and flows.

I think we're at a sink or swim point with Chytil as a second line center. I think Kravtsov can very well start the season on the third line and be better for it --- and we have the potential to make it worthwhile. I think a Kreider, Goodrow, Kravtsov third line would be good for him.

I think moving Strome eases a log-jam. If we try to jam him into things, or jam Kreider into a top six role I think things get more difficult.

But the top young talent we have is crucial to how things play out.

 

[Foxy]

The last player they took outside the top 10 that played more than 400 games in the NHL was selected by them in 2007. That's 14 years!

The last player selected by them outside of the first 34 picks to play more than 100 games in the NHL was selected 8 years ago.

The last Ranger selected to play more then 400 games in the NHL was selected in 2011!!! Including 1st rounders. Thats 10 years with 0 players playing 400 games. Its almost like it takes most players 3 years to develop and then it takes about 5 years to play 400 games, so you are discounting the last 8 years with this metric and it would only include his time as an amature scout with the Leafs. Also, both teams will have players getting their 400th game from later drafts next season.

The Rangers last player selected outside the first round to play 100 games in the NHL was also selected in 2013. Even looking at Tampa, their last player with 100 games outside the 1st round was selected in 2015. So the its not like Leafs are too far off.

Anyway, the 2021, 2020 and 2019 Leaf drafts where Liley was director look good so far.

 

[will1066]

For a non-player thread, the number of pages in here is catching up with a couple of Georgiev and Chytil threads. Good work. Keep it up. Proud of you.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I think we're at a sink or swim point with Chytil as a second line center

That’s somewhat concerning to me when you consider they’ve never actually given him the opportunity to be the 2C

 

[Edge]

The last Ranger selected to play more then 400 games in the NHL was selected in 2011!!! Including 1st rounders. Thats 10 years with 0 players playing 400 games. Its almost like it takes most players 3 years to develop and then it takes about 5 years to play 400 games, so you are discounting the last 8 years with this metric and it would only include his time as an armature scout with the Leafs. Also, both teams will have players getting their 400th game from later drafts next season.

The Rangers last player selected outside the first round to play 100 games in the NHL was also selected in 2013. Even looking at Tampa, their last player with 100 games outside the 1st round was selected in 2015. So the it not like Leafs are not too far off.

Anyway, the 2021, 2020 and 2019 Leaf drafts where Liley was director look good so far.

Yes and no.

We have three players who will be crossing or approaching that threshold in the next year or so - Buchnevich, Duclair and Skjei.

Toronto does not.

If we expand the time period in question, it actually doesn't do Toronto any favors because if we go back to 2007 we'd also have to include Fast, Stepan, Weise and Hagelin as picks outside the first we generated that they didn't over the same period. And that's also with excluding guys like Miller and Kreider from our first rounds.

So if we're looking at the same time periods, expanding the criteria boosts our numbers more than their numbers. That's just a fact.

Looking more closely, our 2018-2020 drafts also look considerably more promising than theirs. Even taking Laf and Kakko off the equation, we've found some very promising talent with very encouraging post draft success. Again, that's without our top picks.

Right now, even going with your approach, we're outpacing them by quite the distance.

 

[Thirty One]

For a non-player thread, the number of pages in here is catching up with a couple of Georgiev and Chytil threads. Good work. Keep it up. Proud of you.

I'll re-ignite the TDA convo in the Georgiev thread.

 

[Edge]

That’s somewhat concerning to me when you consider they’ve never actually given him the opportunity to be the 2C

And that was a f***up from last season.