NYR have named John Lilley Director of Player Personnel and Director of Amateur Scouting.

[Edge]

1. His work as a scout, to me, is a complete unknown. I previously stated that unless someone was familiar with the reports he filed or the work he did scouting American kids for an organization that doesn't draft a lot of them, it's a question mark.

2. I didn't say I was excited about it. I said I didn't feel I could form an objective opinion. Really not sure how much more clear I can be about this point.

3. Developing trend--as I said before, I'm game to evaluate his work for two years as Toronto's US guy and then his three years as their head amateur guy. But I won't try to compare that to Clark as DoPP or anything because that's silly.

I don't really feel like you're meeting me halfway here, at all. I feel like you're agitated, don't like the move, and are just ignoring everything I say. So, moving on.

I’m addressing everything you say, but frankly I think you’re hedging.

Yeah, I’m agitated because the best story we can find connected to Lilley is that he almost punched out a punk kid in a draft interview.

I don’t think Toronto did a better job with their picks than we did since he took over - obviously taking Laf and Kakko off the table.

I don’t see any major hits coming from the US in his entire tenure. Going further, the organization has struggled there. So where are the wins? Doesn’t any of that fall on him or least involve him?

It’s a bad record. Period.

I don’t know if He’s going to be good or not. But the track record isn’t promising by a long shot.

 

[Thirty One]

Didn't we say NYR would turn into an old and fat BU frat house before the summer is over?

Lilley's in great shape for 49.

P.S. HAPPY BIRTHDAY LILLEY!

 

[egelband]

I love this hire. I forgot where I read/heard it as it was a couple years ago. Might have been a podcast, but it talked about how Toronto is doing some revolutionary stuff in player/skills development. Happy to get some of that knowledge over here.

Player development - I hope - is finally getting attention. It’s a critical third pillar. Need good drafting and pro scouting and player development, which is maybe even more important than the first two. There’s a TON of talent out there and the ones that make it historically are the players that kind of develop themselves. We can double the universe of good players with great development.

 

[egelband]

I’m addressing everything you say, but frankly I think you’re hedging.

Yeah, I’m agitated because the best story we can find connected to Lilley is that he almost punched out a punk kid in a draft interview.

I don’t think Toronto did a better job with their picks than we did since he took over - obviously taking Laf and Kakko off the table.

I don’t see any major hits coming from the US in his entire tenure. Going further, the organization has struggled there. So where are the wins? Doesn’t any of that fall on him or least involve him?

It’s a bad record. Period.

I don’t know if He’s going to be good or not. But the track record isn’t promising by a long shot.

Is he a draft guy or a development guy? Or does he now oversee both? I don’t really understand the titles and remits.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Wow, can't believe I didn't catch this the first time.

New York Rangers hire Gerard Gallant as head coach

"Gallant, who will be taking summer courses at Boston College as a condition of the hiring, has coached parts of nine seasons with Columbus, Florida and Vegas."

 

[egelband]

So we have pro scouting, amateur scouting, and player development, right? And is Lilley on top of all three? Assuming so, who are the three managers under him? Sorry. I’m just not very clear on these titles and names.

 

[Edge]

Is he a draft guy or a development guy? Or does he now oversee both? I don’t really understand the titles and remits.

And within that realm of questioning - where are his success stories for either?

The man has been in a position for almost as long as some of our recent draftees have been alive. So what’s the hook on the resume?

 

[egelband]

Re Gallant going to take college classes…I suppose they mean that he wanted the free time to take the courses as a condition. Not that the Rangers told him to go bone up on three Rs. Am I correct?

 

[Off Sides]

Not like Sather/Dolan/Drury are keeping any 1st or 2nd round picks over the next 3 or 4 years to actual NHL playing time anyway, seems kind of like a no show, throw a dart type job anyway.

 

[will1066]

Re Gallant going to take college classes…I suppose they mean that he wanted the free time to take the courses as a condition. Not that the Rangers told him to go bone up on three Rs. Am I correct?

Ah, I believe you have been hoodwinked by a made-up passage, my friend. Or, you're playing along and it's me who has been bamboozled.

 

[eco's bones]

Never have been a fan of Brian Burke and to be honest this story about Yakupov he’d have been better off keeping to himself. The fact that he says he was already determined to draft Reilly anyway and Yakupov was never his player. I also don’t think it’s a particularly good look to be bragging about threatening behavior directed towards a recalcitrant teenager. Just show him the f***ing door if you’re having an issue with him.

Burke has always been full of himself AFAIC.

 

[egelband]

Ah, I believe you have been hoodwinked by a made-up passage, my friend. Or, you're playing along and it's me who has been bamboozled.

Always a possibility. I stopped passing close attention once the free agent frenzy ended.

 

[Thirty One]

Never have been a fan of Brian Burke and to be honest this story about Yakupov he’d have been better off keeping to himself. The fact that he says he was already determined to draft Reilly anyway and Yakupov was never his player. I also don’t think it’s a particularly good look to be bragging about threatening behavior directed towards a recalcitrant teenager. Just show him the f***ing door if you’re having an issue with him.

Burke has always been full of himself AFAIC.

Yeah, that's kinda always been the thing with Burke. His no-nonsense way and rigidity to his principles is almost endearing, but he needs to hit you over the head with how endearing it is.

 

[Thirty One]

Ah, I believe you have been hoodwinked by a made-up passage, my friend. Or, you're playing along and it's me who has been bamboozled.

He has fallen into my web of deception.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

For those uninitiated (interview with Brian Burke who was PoHO/GM for Leafs back in 2012):

He should have answered the question but Yakupov is 100% right. It was a rhetorical question at best but really that's a criticism not a question.

 

[HFsNumber1Heel]

Yeah, that's kinda always been the thing with Burke. His no-nonsense way and rigidity to his principles is almost endearing, but he needs to hit you over the head with how endearing it is.

Burke is the classic alpha bully. He has that Cup to flaunt forever.

Lilley...I have no clue about him. He'll only be as good as his scouts.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

When it came to Nemeth, he was terrible because of what his teams' fans were saying. But here Leafs fans think it's a big loss but this guy is still terrible?

 

[will1066]

He has fallen into my web of deception.

And what a tangled web you weave. It's dastardly.

 

[Harbour Dog]

This offseason has been about 6 'mehs' gathered around a giant 'WTF'.

Fortunately, we already have the foundation of an excellent team, and most of these moves aren't going to make much difference one way or the other.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I dunno, that's a pretty long stretch to just wash away anything outside the top 10.

Especially after some of the insane debates we've seen on these boards in recent years.

It's Colorado Avalanche levels of bad drafting.

 

[Tob]

Lilley's in great shape for 49.

P.S. HAPPY BIRTHDAY LILLEY!

Fatness is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The draft record doesn’t look great post 2016 either. But a lot of things play in here, it’s a team work. The guys doing most of the foot work will still be the same.

The closer you are, the less likely you are to see players already contributing.

They did pick some players that were good picks on the day. Sandin is a good example. Of course we don't know how much impact Lilley had in those selections as he wasn't the director of player personnel.

 

[Ola]

I guess my issue is that you're talking about "we" as some monolithic entity when in fact, opinions on Clark were all over the map his entire time here. Same for Bobrov and our former GM. Some people see things with rose-tinted glasses and focus on all the great things Clark accomplished and some will forever associate him with McIlrath and Gropp and Andersson. So when the discussion turns to what level of skepticism "we" should treat this hire with, who are you really addressing? I was lukewarm on Clark but recognize his successes. I also remember when, due to various reasons, Danny Kristo and Christian Thomas were top prospects here in Clark's tenure. The ebbs and flows of our prospect depth were, in my opinion, due as much to shifts in organizational philosophy as the successes and failures of the various scouting functions.

Which brings me back to Lilley. I do believe it's bordering on absurd to judge his ability to succeed in these positions by looking at what an entire organization did when he was an amateur scout for a decade; unless someone has actual insight into the job he did, the reports he filed on specific players, the guys he advocated for and against, there's really not a lot to glean from that. I do think it's appropriate to evaluate his brief tenure as Director of US Scouting and then as Director of Amateur Scouting. I don't really see any red flags. I don't see much to form an opinion on, period.

But, I get that "we" are generally displeased with the recent turn the organization has taken and are inherently skeptical. For me, though, I see no reason to think this is a poor move--or a great one. It's just...a move. I feel like "we" were thrown into an ice bath when the hammer dropped on Gorton and JD and some are thrashing about, some don't know what to do, and some are f***ing polar bears and have adjusted and like it. Seems like the vast majority are flailing around scared of what's happening around them.

I'm just kind of figuring it all out. My objective opinion of this move is that I really don't have enough information to have an objective opinion of this move. I don't really care about Clark or any of the other guys and whether they got enough or too much credit. To me, that has nothing to do with this.

To each their own, I suppose.

I have no insight into it. But there must be a process to evaluate these guys both internally and externally when they apply for a job. Take someone like Kjellberg. I bet we pay a good salary to our scouts. Like top 5. He comes here and gets a ton of trust, several picks are made that got his name on it. We can’t look back and say that hey, Kjellberg has previously been behind these awesome picks. So what earned him that job? I bet someone like him shows a “record” of sorts. This was my “list” of the players I covered. That earned him a job with us so it was probably really good.

How about his record for us? That remains to be seen. And externally we only have less than half of it to go by regarding any scout. We don’t know who they wanted to be picked and when.

 

[bobbop]

It's Colorado Avalanche levels of bad drafting.

No it’s not. The Leafs have had their share of late round hits.

He clearly had the confidence of the Leafs organization. Of course, who knows how much power Dubas held overt the draft boards?

He will be judged on his performance. Let’s leave it at that.

 

[bobbop]

Why did they phrase it like that? Wouldn't "Director of Player Personnel and Amateur Scouting" be a better way to say it?

It may have been worded this way as a “promotion” so he could escape his Toronto contract.