NYR have named John Lilley Director of Player Personnel and Director of Amateur Scouting.

[Unusual Suspect]

I'm just getting very concerned that Drury's moves so far as management personnel are concerned seem to speak of serious insecurity. Rather than appearing to seek out best-in-class talents he sure looks like he's extending preference almost universally to old pals he knows and "trusts". I'd feel a whole lot better, especially after a strange summer of player movement, to see some brainpower added that is not from the Boston area. It's gone from mildly humorous to moderately unsettling.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

I'm just getting very concerned that Drury's moves so far as management personnel are concerned seem to speak of serious insecurity. Rather than appearing to seek out best-in-class talents he sure looks like he's extending preference almost universally to old pals he knows and "trusts". I'd feel a whole lot better, especially after a strange summer of player movement, to see some brainpower added that is not from the Boston area. It's gone from mildly humorous to moderately unsettling.

He just fired the coach, from the Boston area, that he was instrumental in bringing here and replaced him with a guy from PEI.

 

[duhmetreE]

I feel like I'd be pretty comfortable going with:

Lafreniere-Zibanejad-Kakko
Panarin-Chytil-Blais (Kravtsov down the line)
Kreider-Goodrow-Kravtsov (swap with Blais down the line)
Hunt (Barron)-Rooney (Barron)-Reaves (Hunt)

Lindgren-Fox
Miller-Trouba
Nemeth (Robertson/Jones)-Lundkvist/Schneider

I'd prefer not to keep Strome for too long because I feel like we'd end up pushing Kravtsov right out of the top 9 in that scenario. I think Kravtsov can benefit from a third line role. I don't think the benefit is there having him on the fourth.

I'd prefer not to force Kreider into the top 9 and swap LAfreniere over to the right side. I think it has a similar impact as above and stacks the Rangers young talent into a situation that isn't to their full benefit.

If the Rangers believe Barron is a left wing, I think he eventually becomes Kreider's replacement on the third line. You can break him in the fourth this season.

If they believe Barron is a center, I'd give him a ton of reps in Hartford and have him come up a little later. In theory he becomes a third line center at some point, flanked by Goodrow and and Blais in a post-Kreider world.

I think I'd like to see Jones/Robertson and Schneider get a ton of time down in Hartford. I'm also not opposed to Lundkvist getting a ton of time to start as well.

I'd like to push to see what we have with our young forward talent. These aren't the Callahan's and Dubinsky's of yesteryear. We need to develop them a bit differently. That means we need to move a forward and the likely candidate is Strome.

I don't love the idea of Eichel right now, but it also depends on the cost and the timing.

I think we have a more flexible and balanced lineup on paper right now. I think execution will be key.

Do you get the impression Goodrow will be the 3C?

 

[will1066]

I'm just getting very concerned that Drury's moves so far as management personnel are concerned seem to speak of serious insecurity. Rather than appearing to seek out best-in-class talents he sure looks like he's extending preference almost universally to old pals he knows and "trusts". I'd feel a whole lot better, especially after a strange summer of player movement, to see some brainpower added that is not from the Boston area. It's gone from mildly humorous to moderately unsettling.

The icing on the cake will be getting someone who hails from Braintree, MA.

I'll se myself out.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm just getting very concerned that Drury's moves so far as management personnel are concerned seem to speak of serious insecurity. Rather than appearing to seek out best-in-class talents he sure looks like he's extending preference almost universally to old pals he knows and "trusts". I'd feel a whole lot better, especially after a strange summer of player movement, to see some brainpower added that is not from the Boston area. It's gone from mildly humorous to moderately unsettling.

This is how the real world works for the most part. For better or for worse.

Also he fired David Quinn who he is very close with. Doesn't exactly fit that narrative.

 

[Edge]

Do you get the impression Goodrow will be the 3C?

Honestly, I don't know. It really depends on what roster moves they make.

Personally, I am intrigued by the idea.

 

[Foxy]

The position is in a state of flux right now, as is the overall department. Beyond Clark, who has been phased over the last several years, you have Bobrov moving out, you have uncertainty with Morehouse at the moment, as well as a handful of others. I don't mind change inherently, but I'd like to see us at least drawing from areas where we can say, "Yeah, they've got track record and/or some trend-setting going on in their previous role." Lilley just isn't that guy for me.

At best, his recent work in Toronto is incomplete/TBD, at worst it's less than what we've done. Prior to that, I see some clear misses coming from an area of scouting that he oversaw and was locked-in on.

That's fair. I look at Toronto's 19 and 20 drafts where Lilley was director and think they are pretty good. Are they as good as ours? No. But our 19 and 20 drafts were amazing, not many(or any) teams had better drafts those years then us. That said, the decision to not stay the course had already been made, first with the firing of Gorton and then later with Drury firing Bobrov. We'll see if Drury continues to revamp the department. As of now it is just Bobrov out, Lilley in. From using the wayback machine to the rangers front office page in the summer 2020, none of the other european or amateur scouts have changed, including Marshall Davidson and Ginnell both of whom came from CBJ with JD.

To me it would be more interesting to compare Lilley to who ever else was in the running. Then we could get more of a sense of Drury's thought process, like were we competing with Toronto for Hardy for AGM or Director and lost, or was Lilley our first choice? Most likely no one super amazing was available, I highly doubt someone like Al Murray from Tampa was interested. Unfortunately this information I will probably never have, lol.

As for missing on Fox... Everyone did. lol. I'm sure Morehouse as director of scouting in CBJ regrets taking Vitali Abramov 1 pick before Fox.

 

[Edge]

That's fair. I look at Toronto's 19 and 20 drafts where Lilley was director and think they are pretty good. Are they as good as ours? No. But our 19 and 20 drafts were amazing, not many(or any) teams had better drafts those years then us. That said, the decision to not stay the course had already been made, first with the firing of Gorton and then later with Drury firing Bobrov. We'll see if Drury continues to revamp the department. As of now it is just Bobrov out, Lilley in. From using the wayback machine to the rangers front office page in the summer 2020, none of the other european or amateur scouts have changed, including Marshall Davidson and Ginnell both of whom came from CBJ with JD.

To me it would be more interesting to compare Lilley to who ever else was in the running. Then we could get more of a sense of Drury's thought process, like were we competing with Toronto for Hardy for AGM or Director and lost, or was Lilley our first choice? Most likely no one super amazing was available, I highly doubt someone like Al Murray from Tampa was interested. Unfortunately this information I will probably never have, lol.

As for missing on Fox... Everyone did. lol. I'm sure Morehouse as director of scouting in CBJ regrets taking Vitali Abramov 1 pick before Fox.

At the end of the day our path is our path. I'll freely admit that I liked what we had. Yes it needed pivots and changes, yes it had flaws, and it had strengths and weaknesses. But I think we also assembled a hell of a crew and were making smart selections, even beyond the obvious ones. Part of the confidence in their ability was the players they identified but didn't get because of lottery wins. So I generally felt our heads were in the right spots, whether the ping pong balls had us taking Lafreniere and Kakko, or Lundell and Zegras.

I think more changes are definitely coming though. So far, I've found myself wanting more. We'll see how the rest looks.

With regards to Fox, yeah others missed on him as well. I think Lilley becomes a little more glaring because it was his area of expertise for a long time, he was on the cusp of a major promotion, and Toronto ended up passing on two really good players from that program he followed. For better or worse, when you're a US National Team Scout, and your team hasn't had much success in that department, and you pass on one of the best players to come out of that program in years, twice, including taking a teammate from the same program, who busts, it's probably worth mentioning. Just like it would be if one of our guys had us pass on Schneider for Greig and had it backfire. The closer you are to the source, especially when it comes to picking between teammates, the more scrutiny it is going to draw. Just like it would in reverse if you come away with the better, but less heralded teammate. So it cuts both ways.

 

[Levitate]

Do you actually have any ideas or feelings of attempted moves coming?

 

[Edge]

This is how the real world works for the most part. For better or for worse.

Also he fired David Quinn who he is very close with. Doesn't exactly fit that narrative.

Yes and no. A comfort level always helps and trusts is important as well. But you hope to have a bit of a balance there. I'm hoping that comes with time. Nothing against Grier, or Lilley, but I'd like us to have at least one conversation we say "This is guy is on to something" or "This a low-key really smart move." I don't think we've quite had that yet.

And truthfully, I do think we have decently high standards to live up after the past few years. What we assembled in a relatively short period of time, some of it with good fortune, is nothing to sneeze at. Finding guys like Robertson, Jones, Lundkvist, Miller, Berard, etc. is really important. Some of those names won't lead the top of any prospect list, but they've given us a ton of ammo with which to work.

Ultimately that remains my hope. Finding good value, finding those depth picks, etc.

 

[Edge]

Do you actually have any ideas or feelings of attempted moves coming?

There's the usual names, but it feels like there is definitely a mystery candidate or two in the mix.

Some wildcard like Joe Pavelski or something along those lines.

 

[duhmetreE]

There's the usual names, but it feels like there is definitely a mystery candidate or two in the mix.

Some wildcard like Joe Pavelski or something along those lines.

Say Dvorak so we can once against split the board

 

[Levitate]

There's the usual names, but it feels like there is definitely a mystery candidate or two in the mix.

Some wildcard like Joe Pavelski or something along those lines.

I guess I just wonder if there's anything realistic that's going to come about or if this is really just "wait and see if someone blinks and when they don't ride into the season as is"

mostly because I assume most talks and deals don't come to fruition in general, but I can't quite decide if the Rangers have a plan to make something happen one way or another or if they'll be patient

 

[Edge]

Say Dvorak so we can once against split the board

Can't rule him out, but I am almost get the feeling the Rangers are looking for something that really changes up the look a bit.

On a roster with Mika, Strome, and Chytil, does swapping Dvorak in for one really do that? I don't know.

 

[Edge]

I guess I just wonder if there's anything realistic that's going to come about or if this is really just "wait and see if someone blinks and when they don't ride into the season as is"

mostly because I assume most talks and deals don't come to fruition in general, but I can't quite decide if the Rangers have a plan to make something happen one way or another or if they'll be patient

Right now I sense patience and a willingness to wait. How long is the real question.

I don't see them blinking on Lafreniere or Kakko, but when you start getting to the Kravtsov, Chytil, Schneider, etc. level players, I don't know how long that patience extends.

 

[duhmetreE]

Can't rule him out, but I am almost get the feeling the Rangers are looking for something that really changes up the look a bit.

On a roster with Mika, Strome, and Chytil, does swapping Dvorak in for one really do that? I don't know.

Hes a solid middle 6 2way goal scoring center that has term. It's not as much as switching it up but helps stabilize things.

He can slot in with Panarin if Chytil isn't ready. I think he can score a lot playing with Panarin and I think he'll fit Gallant's system very well. At best, I could see similar success to that of Vegas' Karlsson

 

[Foxy]

I think more changes are definitely coming though. So far, I've found myself wanting more. We'll see how the rest looks.

Do you mean more scouting department changes? As so far the only move has been Bobrov out, and Lilley in. Drury has not disassembled the crew that were making the smart selections in those drafts, at least not yet.

 

[Edge]

Hes a solid middle 6 2way goal scoring center that has term. It's not as much as switching it up but helps stabilize things.

He can slot in with Panarin if Chytil isn't ready. I think he can score a lot playing with Panarin and I think he'll fit Gallant's system very well. At best, I could see similar success to that of Vegas' Karlsson

He could, he's not without his merits. I like Dvorak.

I'm not sure I see the Rangers going that direction and keeping Chytil. On first blush, that feels like an either/or scenario with different player combos.

That's if I was held to an idea. Like I said, I can't rule him out at this point.

 

[Edge]

Do you mean more scouting department changes? As so far the only move has been Bobrov out, and Lilley in. Drury has not disassembled the crew that were making the smart selections in those drafts, at least not yet.

I think scouting department changes are likely on the horizon, short-term and a little further out.

This past draft supposedly featured a lot less insight from the usual crew.

 

[2014nyr]

I'm just getting very concerned that Drury's moves so far as management personnel are concerned seem to speak of serious insecurity. Rather than appearing to seek out best-in-class talents he sure looks like he's extending preference almost universally to old pals he knows and "trusts". I'd feel a whole lot better, especially after a strange summer of player movement, to see some brainpower added that is not from the Boston area. It's gone from mildly humorous to moderately unsettling.

i think it can be a good or bad thing. if he has a detailed vision, and has people in mind for particular roles he knows/trusts, we'll be ok. i like the idea of a ceo type who knows what pieces to put where and steps back to let them do their job.

if he's just backfilling roles he cleared out with friends we're gonna be a disaster.

to that end, also has my inner conspiracy theorist going - always seemed fishy with how the gorton/jd firings went down and drury handed both roles while sather lurked. makes me wonder if drury cleared out the entire front office to make sure he knew where loyalties lied so he never faced that same fate. just a fun theory to throw out

 

[RangerBlues]

What do they expect from hiring this guy?
Have the leafs drafted and developed anybody notable outside the top 10 in the last decade?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

What do they expect from hiring this guy?
Have the leafs drafted and developed anybody notable outside the top 10 in the last decade?

Dermott, Engvall, Gauthier, Johnsson, Verhaeghe, Brown, Leivo.


Robertson, Sandin and Liljegren look pretty good early on. It's not the massive haul that makes you think this is the perfect guy for the job but, who is?

 

[RangerBlues]

Robertson is top 6 player or bust
Liljegren and Sandin both played this past season. And should continue to.
The rest is 2 plus years away.
I dont see the hiring as an improvement over what the Rangers have been doing.

 

[Ola]

I'm just getting very concerned that Drury's moves so far as management personnel are concerned seem to speak of serious insecurity. Rather than appearing to seek out best-in-class talents he sure looks like he's extending preference almost universally to old pals he knows and "trusts". I'd feel a whole lot better, especially after a strange summer of player movement, to see some brainpower added that is not from the Boston area. It's gone from mildly humorous to moderately unsettling.

I agree and I’ve been feeling the same for a long time. We made bad calls and didn’t have people in the organization who prevented them from happening. I also think we made great calls, and that is great, but it doesn’t “excuse” the horrible decisions who just were totally unnecessary. The right management personnel would have spoken up against those bad calls and we obviously lacked these persons. When you looked at the management roster it was friends and family from top to bottom.

With Lilley, actually I do like that he is coming from a prominent role in Toronto. You can say a lot of things about them, but lack of trying to run a state of the art organization isn’t one of them. I am sure Lilley can bring a lot of new approaches with him.

I also like the rumor of Tocchet as assistant coach. I think it’s very likely that we are the team that fielded him the highest paid assistant ever offer. Get the best people, doesn’t have to be the most experienced ones like Tocchet, but the best talents you can find. Just erase “Boston” in the search filter…

I read about Toronto’s hiring if Manny Malhotra to run the PP. No previous connections. They had looked thoroughly around and MM caught their attention being very innovative and progressive. Hence they went out and got him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Robertson is top 6 player or bust
Liljegren and Sandin both played this past season. And should continue to.
The rest is 2 plus years away.
I dont see the hiring as an improvement over what the Rangers have been doing.

They need a replacement for Gordie Clark who stepped down.

I don't think better alternatives were available.