Proposal: NYR - EDM

[TFHockey]

Price at least is a #1G

Koskinen is a bakc with a cap hit of 5M$.

Koskinen IS a back up. Agreed. He is paid $4.5 Million and that deal expires at the end of the year. Hardly a burden.

Price? The issues there have already been debated and discussed ad nauseum. Not a fit for a cap team like the Oilers.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Price at least is a #1G

Koskinen is a bakc with a cap hit of 5M$.

Price is a question mark. He was a #1G. Then he had a major surgery and went to rehab, we don't know what he is as a player now.

 

[bernmeister]

No. If our 1st is involved it has to be for an upgrade with fewer question marks than Georgiev. That's the price for a proven starter not a slight upgrade who has played poorly at times this season. Good backup cost is usually a 3rd at most. Geo might ha e starter upside so I would give a bit more but overall paying starter rates for a backup isn't smart. If that isn't enough to get him, we move on to the next one and maybe circle back later.

ok we agree to disagree on some of this but I can live with a 2nd + instead of a 1st [w/adds both sides]

 

[bernmeister]

Yes. They can overpay for MAF. Quick probably isn’t available. Geo probably isn’t available either given the Rangers don’t have a viable number 3.

agree overpay for MAF and Quick will also cost

nobody does anybody any favors
Geo IS available imo but full value, which is only a 2nd this yr, but more if retention, taking back Kosk, etc

It won't take a 2nd to move Koskinen for a few months. It might be the difference between having to give up a 2nd instead of a 3rd, or a 3rd instead of a 4th, but eating a few months of a backup goalie isn't going to cost a ton. If its the right deal for both teams, its probably just a toss in to make the deal work.

If you want the cap space NOW you pay NOW to create it NOW.
Sayin ya wanna muddle through third of a season or so until final trade deadline in case cost to unload him is less?

I think many Oiler fans are willing to give up a 1st+ for the right goalie. That means a starting goalie though. One with term. Literally the only 1st round pick used in trade to get a goalie in recent memory was the Colorado deal for Keumper, and I feel that Sakic won a huge bidding war to get Kuemper, and it didn't turn out good for him. The goalie market isn't so tight right now that marginal goalies are worth 1st round picks. It wasn't long ago that a significant contingent of Rangers fans were wanting Georgiev gone for very little. I agree that he has played his value up, but not so much that he's worth a 1st.

But as has been said, it doesn't make much sense for the Rangers to move him anyway. He is their insurance policy, so just hold onto him for now. As teams fall out of the playoff race, more goalies will likely become available.

bold: a good goalie w/term is more than a 1st and dep on how good, could be WAY more.
underline: we had not cracked the code back then.
Eye test confirm: starter w/regular work and yes, odd bad games here and there, but mostly solid.
Last nite confirms that.
italic: it doesn't pay to give him away but it makes less sense to minimize his value post season when all you have is rfa rights

a deal can be had but ya gotta pay
not through the nose, but pay
NY needs a reason to live w/Kinkaid

also, Huska played well in the A.
He got zero support ZERO vs Colorado.
I'd give him another shot and insist team play for him
can also play him vs weaker teams

I'm fine with that, I just don't know how we get the cap to work. We have no cap space, ha ha.

that can be arranged --- for an additional fee

The Rangers are trying to make the playoffs. Trading Georgiev for a 3rd round pick does nothing for them. The Rangers will revisit the Georgiev situation after this season. They can move him in the summer.

Not best long term imo
add assets, can trade up etc
Shesty is the main guy anyway

also, do we really wanna give Geo starter mins to keep him sharp at cost of mins to Shesty?

We could take back koskinen at whatever% to keep the cap exchanged neutral

again, yes, but it will cost
a la carte pricing

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Except the person I was responding too...?



Yell at this guy, not me. I clearly state in my post I don't think they should do nothing when they have two Hart calibre players on the team.

as I stated above, trading/overpaying for a goalie for EDM is throwing good money after bad. Neither Allen or Gio is gonna push them to the cup.
their "wasted" resource usage is due to poor roster construction. bad bottom 6, mediocre dmen

 

[bernmeister]

as I stated above, trading/overpaying for a goalie for EDM is throwing good money after bad. Neither Allen or Gio is gonna push them to the cup.
their "wasted" resource usage is due to poor roster construction. bad bottom 6, mediocre dmen

agree w/this except Geo is decent->moderate cost for reward worth the risk.
Others are too expensive or little left in the tank

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Geo is decent, Huska sucks badly. Rangers would be morons to trade Geo for a measly 3rd rounder as the top seed in the east. If their starter then got hurt, they are an easy out with Huska hemorrhaging goals.

How often have you seen these players play?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Too many Rangers fans in this thread are being hypocritical. You guys will trash Georgiyev half the time. The other half you praise him. Choose your side. Either he’s an inconsistent back up that makes too much and causes locker room problems or he’s not. Don’t change your mind depending on whether he’s in his good or bad stretch.

And there’s no point in putting any emphasis on a back up when you rely heavily on your starter to be one of your best players. The Rangers have zero chance if Shestyorkin isn’t available in the playoffs. We don’t get insurance for if Fox or Panarin aren’t available. Why should we with Shestyorkin?

I’d trade Georgiyev immediately for the best return. Get this guy off the team.

 

[Overrateprospects]

Rangers apparently want to trade him if you listen to their fans, Oilers want a solid young goalie if you listen to their fans, it’s a trade made in heaven

Rangers fans want to deal him for a first….. that’s not happening but if Oilers want him they need to eat half on Koskinen contract and throw in a 2nd. I don’t see things changing for Oilers because minute Georgie makes a mistake Tippett will throw him under bus

 

[McSuper]

Price at least is a #1G

Koskinen is a bakc with a cap hit of 5M$.

Cap hit is not the issue at this time unless you are in LTIR money it is why at the trade deadline you can add a 6 million player with only 2 million in cap space . His remaining dollars is his cap hit to any team that acquired him . NHL fan really don't under cap . Also Koskinen never carried a 5 million dollar cap hit .

Price hasn't even played a game this year and he a number 1 ? Better get Roy out of retirement as he is a number 1

 

[TGWL]

Rangers fans want to deal him for a first….. that’s not happening but if Oilers want him they need to eat half on Koskinen contract and throw in a 2nd. I don’t see things changing for Oilers because minute Georgie makes a mistake Tippett will throw him under bus

Like 1-2 fans? Come on, 99% of us don't expect anything close to a 1st.

 

[Flan the incredible]

Too many Rangers fans in this thread are being hypocritical. You guys will trash Georgiyev half the time. The other half you praise him. Choose your side. Either he’s an inconsistent back up that makes too much and causes locker room problems or he’s not. Don’t change your mind depending on whether he’s in his good or bad stretch.

And there’s no point in putting any emphasis on a back up when you rely heavily on your starter to be one of your best players. The Rangers have zero chance if Shestyorkin isn’t available in the playoffs. We don’t get insurance for if Fox or Panarin aren’t available. Why should we with Shestyorkin?

I’d trade Georgiyev immediately for the best return. Get this guy off the team.

Are you new to this board or being a Ranger fan? Its what have you done for me lately and i want as many prospects as possible. Oh and mix in a little of play players in positions they have never played or in lines they haven't earned. Most fans still want Strome gone for nothing. Half of them would of had Chytil on the 2nd line from day 1. They also wanted Kreider and Trouba gone at the beginning of the year for nothing. This mindset is so far from reality its comical.

Rangers want to get to get to the playoffs and win as many rounds as possible to show progress. The rebuild is over face it. Rangers arent trading Georgie unless they get a return they can't say no to.

 

[Kocur Dill]

Georgiev is younger and better than Halak

Eh, I think at this point in both their careers the paradigm is a little more nuanced than that.

Georgiev:
Starter = B
Backup= C-

Halak:
Starter = C+
Backup = A-

Valiquette talked about it during intermission last night and I agree as it's a theory I've held for awhile myself. Georgiev has a Starters mentality. But he needs to be in that consistent groove to be successful. His confidence grows with his comfort level. That's not to say he's perfect, hence the B grade. As a backup he hasn't figured out the mental balance ot takes to be successful not seeing the reps a Starter gets. Much like a young Halak or even a Marty Biron. Guys who will have less criticism about their careers when they are done, than they did when they were active, especially in the early years and when everything falls apart before they retire.

 

[Scintillating10]

To Edmonton: G Alexander Georgiev

To NYR: 3rd round pick

Oilers get a young goalie they need, Rangers get a pick and play Huska.

Might as well forget about this trade. Rangers will want a first because he gives them depth. They are cup contender. Oilers are too cheap to add the piece to put them over the top. So, it's impossible to trade

 

[Overrateprospects]

Like 1-2 fans? Come on, 99% of us don't expect anything close to a 1st.

Nah many people want Chytil on second line. Idk see people constantly wanting to get rid of him and can’t imagine trading him for 58 pick in the draft so what would they want?

 

[TGWL]

Nah many people want Chytil on second line. Idk see people constantly wanting to get rid of him and can’t imagine trading him for 58 pick in the draft so what would they want?

Sorry. I thought you were talking about Georgiev

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Are you new to this board or being a Ranger fan? Its what have you done for me lately and i want as many prospects as possible. Oh and mix in a little of play players in positions they have never played or in lines they haven't earned. Most fans still want Strome gone for nothing. Half of them would of had Chytil on the 2nd line from day 1. They also wanted Kreider and Trouba gone at the beginning of the year for nothing. This mindset is so far from reality its comical.

Rangers want to get to get to the playoffs and win as many rounds as possible to show progress. The rebuild is over face it. Rangers arent trading Georgie unless they get a return they can't say no to.

I don't understand why we couldn't trade Georgiyev. Is there one good reason?

 

[Flan the incredible]

I don't understand why we couldn't trade Georgiyev. Is there one good reason?

Could we trade him? Sure. Will they trade him? Probably not. Dolan I think has made it pretty clear he wants to get into the playoffs and make some noise. The team is top 3 right now and Shesty has missed a ton of games. Huska looked terrible so the only other choice is Kincaid who hasn't sniffed the ice so far this year. Georgie minus his first few starts has played well. With more starts he might be a starter somewhere in this league. Rangers arent trading him for a nothing return this year. A 2nd doesn't move the bar for them I would assume. So I just dont see him being moved.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

agree w/this except Geo is decent->moderate cost for reward worth the risk.
Others are too expensive or little left in the tank

for EDM Geo wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.. depending on cost of course

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Eh, I think at this point in both their careers the paradigm is a little more nuanced than that.

Georgiev:
Starter = B
Backup= C-

Halak:
Starter = C+
Backup = A-

Valiquette talked about it during intermission last night and I agree as it's a theory I've held for awhile myself. Georgiev has a Starters mentality. But he needs to be in that consistent groove to be successful. His confidence grows with his comfort level. That's not to say he's perfect, hence the B grade. As a backup he hasn't figured out the mental balance ot takes to be successful not seeing the reps a Starter gets. Much like a young Halak or even a Marty Biron. Guys who will have less criticism about their careers when they are done, than they did when they were active, especially in the early years and when everything falls apart before they retire.

so...much...logic...

head....exploding..

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Sorry. I thought you were talking about Georgiev

actually there's another post stating that (not necessarily a NRY fan) stating it again... smh

 

[bernmeister]

for EDM Geo wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.. depending on cost of course

like I said, a la carte pricing
only Geo = 2nd
retention = add
taking back Kosk = add
if pick is not this yr and NY has delayed gratification, that too should = add

so, you see the price list
not a freebie throw in, but can do a small package w/Reunanen, currently on taxi squad, he's back of depth D chart. lefty think he can play either side

make us a decent offer
people who ask a first here or won't go above a 3rd are the polar ends of this equation, not the 2nd/+ crowd

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

like I said, a la carte pricing
only Geo = 2nd
retention = add
taking back Kosk = add
if pick is not this yr and NY has delayed gratification, that too should = add

so, you see the price list
not a freebie throw in, but can do a small package w/Reunanen, currently on taxi squad, he's back of depth D chart. lefty think he can play either side

make us a decent offer
people who ask a first here or won't go above a 3rd are the polar ends of this equation, not the 2nd/+ crowd

I don't agree that it's that much 'adding' tho.. 2 weeks ago NYR fans were begging for a 7th for this guy, so ..

example, Geo for Kosk 2nd and 3rd or something like that.. kosk can be a decent backup for the remainder of the year then NY can cut him loose

 

[GOilers88]

as I stated above, trading/overpaying for a goalie for EDM is throwing good money after bad. Neither Allen or Gio is gonna push them to the cup.
their "wasted" resource usage is due to poor roster construction. bad bottom 6, mediocre dmen

I don't entirely understand the sentiment here and it's one I see quite often.

Player X isn't going to be the one to win you a cup so he isn't worth it.

Disagree. Depending on the cost, adding a player who would be an improvement on any existing player is always a smart move. Especially when we're considering a Koskinen replacement for this year. I was hard on the no to Korpisalo and Geo train a while back, and I'm still not convinced they'll be much better than Koskinen, but if they come in close or equal it's a win. The Oilers need this guy off the roster asap.

And how often are teams exactly one player away from a cup? You piece it together as you go. The core is there. Fill it in as best you can. f*** draft picks at this point, they're almost useless to this team at the moment. Everybody wants to see players upgraded, but nobody wants to pony up to do it out of fear of missing out on some prospect who more than likely will never sniff the NHL level with the Oilers. This place changes its opinion on players and player values more than it changes its underwear so what was said two weeks ago shouldn't even matter. I'm not even a Georgiev fan and I'd take a chance on him based on how he's played since that silly thread went up.

 

[bernmeister]

I don't agree that it's that much 'adding' tho.. 2 weeks ago NYR fans were begging for a 7th for this guy, so ..

example, Geo for Kosk 2nd and 3rd or something like that.. kosk can be a decent backup for the remainder of the year then NY can cut him loose

some NYR fans wanted to move him for a 7th THEN
that was before we figured out that
yes, like Hank 3 or so seasons ago had a wk with the yips
he'll have the off nite
but
if he is given regular starter work, his track record is good


you can't say ok it's a 2nd but then let us dump Kosk the other way for nothing, not even a favor. At that point it is not a 2nd, it is a 2nd -.

You're thin on picks this yr
let's try this:
both NYR 2022 4ths for EDM 2023 and 2024 3rds + Kosk
that covers that
then we also send you Geo for your choice, Lavoie or McLeod elcs w/recent 2nd round value

deal?