Proposal: NYR - Dallas

[Johno]

I didn't propose it.

Misquoted, yes. Point still stands.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Johnston isn’t going anywhere but a trade involving Bourque for Lundkvist isn’t off the wall. Stars are in need of another young defenseman (even with Harley) heading forward. Of course this wouldn’t be a move to look at until the offseason.

I would trade Lundkvist plus 2 lesser prospects that we don't really need for Johnston. So maybe Lundkvist, plus 2 of (Henrikson, Tarnstrom, Edstrom, Pajuniemi, Hajek, Lindbom, Reunanen, Khodorenko, Richards, etc.)

 

[Kcb12345]

I would trade Lundkvist plus 2 lesser prospects that we don't really need for Johnston. So maybe Lundkvist, plus 2 of (Henrikson, Tarnstrom, Edstrom, Pajuniemi, Hajek, Lindbom, Reunanen, Khodorenko, Richards, etc.)

Johnston isn't going anywhere

 

[jonlin]

EXACTLY.
Rangers can deal vets for vets, vets for youth, or youth for youth. Team cannot deal youth for vets, esp core pieces like KK, LaF, Chytil, Barron

Sry but there is still a cap. How do you figure you can get them all signed? Panarin 11M, Kreider 6,5M, Trouba 8M, Goodrow 3,6M, Shesterkin 5,6M - all on NMC/NTC:s. Thats 35M
Next year Fox has 9,5M, Zibanejad 8,5M, Thats 17M more.

So, 52M on 7 players + 3,4M on buyouts fo 2022-2023. Theres 16 more to sign for 27M. You also have contracts for 1,5-2,5M for 4 players. Thats 8M more. So 63M on payroll with 12 players unsigned. I hardly think Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil and Barron settle for some 2M/yr bridge?

 

[Rory]

Very, very dopey. Trouba is a different brand of D man and brings things to the ice that Heiskanen will never. Heiskanen has more trade value; not sure I would take him over Trouba if I'm trying to win a Stanley Cup.

You would be the only one for sure on that island. No GM will take Trouba over Heiskanen in a cup run. You clearly have not seen Miro play.

 

[bernmeister]

Sry but there is still a cap. How do you figure you can get them all signed? Panarin 11M, Kreider 6,5M, Trouba 8M, Goodrow 3,6M, Shesterkin 5,6M - all on NMC/NTC:s. Thats 35M
Next year Fox has 9,5M, Zibanejad 8,5M, Thats 17M more.

So, 52M on 7 players. Theres 16 more to sign for 30M. You also have contracts for 1,5-2,5M for 4 players. Thats 8M more. So 60M with 12 players unsigned. I hardly think Kakko, Lafreniere, Chytil and Barron settle for some 2M/yr bridge?

The Rangers can pay the 11m + for Fox + zib raises w/bye to:
Strome, Geo, Nemeth, Hajek + recover 1.5 buyout of Hank

we need scratch for down payment on Chytil, Gauthier, Blais, Kakko + LaF.
Barron I think is good for the moment.
I think this is a situation where the tean is trending upwards, and they see that the nanosecond all/most of Trouba's 8m per is off the books, there is enuf to for everybody to get paid, w/JT replaced by elc Schneider. That will at worst be 2 seasons hence, it MIGHT be earlier. Again, seeing that might be close enuf is basis for them to consider working w/us.

Now, where does that scratch come from? I'm thinking Lindgren's 3 x 3 goes and he is replaced by Robertson's elc. The other gain is if Reaves "retires" and takes a f'o job and maybe later, when Trouba's $ is recovered, he takes a small # to return, maybe.
And we can pinch and sign one less guy like McKegg.
And last but not least we may, MAY be able to rework a guy like Kreider and tear up his old deal at 6+ and do something like 5.5 on a new deal, but one which adds term. I'm not sure, but that may be doable. We then owe Kreider one when he retires. Something like that.

But the key here is, unquestionably, we can do vets for vets vets for youth and youth for youth. But we can not deal youth for vets. THAT is a cap killer, and I only hope Dolan is aware of this enuf that he doesn't push Drury into something stupid which as an overreach has min chance of guaranteeing cup, but will def have repercussions after.

 

[jonlin]

How is there 6 pages for this ret@rded proposal.

Because sometimes you need to try contend. In this case its Rangers before 2023. After that cap-hell calls. Now they have the assets and cap to make a run. Sure, they can just participate, but another option is stack up for playoffs before their players extensions kick in...

 

[pld459666]

I'd offer the Rangers 2nd and Matt Robertson for Pavelski.

if you can get better, go with god.

 

[Johno]

I would trade Lundkvist plus 2 lesser prospects that we don't really need for Johnston. So maybe Lundkvist, plus 2 of (Henrikson, Tarnstrom, Edstrom, Pajuniemi, Hajek, Lindbom, Reunanen, Khodorenko, Richards, etc.)

And right there lies your problem. Your aren’t getting the best drafted prospect in probably all of junior hockey atm, for your scraps.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Lundkvist is the main piece and his value is on par with Johnston.

 

[Chimpradamus]

You would be the only one for sure on that island. No GM will take Trouba over Heiskanen in a cup run. You clearly have not seen Miro play.

For NYR it makes sense since they have Fox instead of Heiskanen. Fox is better at the Heiskanen stuff while Trouba brings an important physical aspect and a shooting mentality.

 

[Savant]

Lundkvist is the main piece and his value is on par with Johnston.

No it isn’t.

 

[Savant]

I'd offer the Rangers 2nd and Matt Robertson for Pavelski.

if you can get better, go with god.

I think that’s about fair

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

The Rangers can pay the 11m + for Fox + zib raises w/bye to:
Strome, Geo, Nemeth, Hajek + recover 1.5 buyout of Hank

we need scratch for down payment on Chytil, Gauthier, Blais, Kakko + LaF.
Barron I think is good for the moment.
I think this is a situation where the tean is trending upwards, and they see that the nanosecond all/most of Trouba's 8m per is off the books, there is enuf to for everybody to get paid, w/JT replaced by elc Schneider. That will at worst be 2 seasons hence, it MIGHT be earlier. Again, seeing that might be close enuf is basis for them to consider working w/us.

Now, where does that scratch come from? I'm thinking Lindgren's 3 x 3 goes and he is replaced by Robertson's elc. The other gain is if Reaves "retires" and takes a f'o job and maybe later, when Trouba's $ is recovered, he takes a small # to return, maybe.
And we can pinch and sign one less guy like McKegg.
And last but not least we may, MAY be able to rework a guy like Kreider and tear up his old deal at 6+ and do something like 5.5 on a new deal, but one which adds term. I'm not sure, but that may be doable. We then owe Kreider one when he retires. Something like that.
.

Your posts are interesting to read but are full of unrealistic hypotheticals. The Rangers aren't forcing Trouba to move if he's in the top 4 and the team is contending and if they trade him when he's 32 with 8M left for a couple of years the return is going to have salary coming back, only so much that is buryable. All that savings you thought you had that can go to the youngsters is partially eaten up in addition to a roster spot taken away.

They're not giving Lindgren away either to save a million or two by placing an inexperienced player on their top pairings if the team is in the contending window.

Reaves isn't "retiring" to help the Rangers.

The biggest fantasy is the "reworking" of the Kreider deal, which has to be illegal in the CBA. I mean, I guess you can convince him to retire and give up 20 or so million, offer him a front office job for a year and then he can return and recoup that 20 mill over a longer term but better cap hit.

Your dream of having a contending team for fifteen years relies on all these major contributors willingly riding off or being traded in order to help the elc players seamlessly pick up and make the exact same contribution at a cheaper rate until their elc expires. No drop-off, no seasons of adjustment everything is all unicorns galloping across rainbows with multiple Stanley Cups at the end.

The Rangers will be the only team in the NHL that forces their young star players to take short-term, less money bridge deals before they're eligible to be offer-sheeted in order to make this happen.

It's an interesting take, I'll say that.

 

[smoneil]

Your posts are interesting to read but are full of unrealistic hypotheticals. The Rangers aren't forcing Trouba to move if he's in the top 4 and the team is contending and if they trade him when he's 32 with 8M left for a couple of years the return is going to have salary coming back, only so much that is buryable. All that savings you thought you had that can go to the youngsters is partially eaten up in addition to a roster spot taken away.

Just as a small point of clarification, but Trouba will be 32 when his contract ends. If they look to move him in two years (when his NMC becomes a limited NTC for the last two years of the contract), he'll have recently turned 30. And if the Rangers retain ~$2m, they can likely get value back for him and still open up about 5 or 6 million in cap space. They may not need to depending on how prospects develop and whether/how much the cap goes up that summer.

 

[smoneil]

no guarantees, panarin getting older, Zibby getting older, kreider getting older, can Igor post the same numbers year after year, heck can Foxy withhold the physical onslaught? blueshirts have a legit chance this year, like someone said, who is better Pavelski or Kakko? The rangers always get their free agents and have a more than real chance of signing Pavelski anyway. been watching NHL since 1978, strike when the iron is hot, especially when you have a declining asset in Kakko

First, Panarin and Kreider are just 30 years old. Kreider is a fitness freak and is in the midst of the best season of his career. Panarin doesn't have as many NHL miles on his body as most 30 year olds because he came to the league in his mid-20s. Zibby is getting older? He's 28. The hilarity of all of those claims is that your solution is...to trade a haul for a 37 year old player. If Zibanejad, Kreider, and Panarin are old, what is Pavelski? Dead? The Rangers window will open when they can compete beyond just the goalie and half a dozen skaters (and right now, the only consistent contributors are Bread, Strome, Zib, Kreider, Fox, and Trouba). They aren't going to trade a high potential piece for a rental they can't re-sign. That doesn't mean that Pavelski doesn't have high value. It just means that he has higher value to a team that is much closer to being a finished roster. You should shop him to a team like that, as they have reason to offer more than the Rangers do.

 

[smoneil]

I would trade Lundkvist plus 2 lesser prospects that we don't really need for Johnston. So maybe Lundkvist, plus 2 of (Henrikson, Tarnstrom, Edstrom, Pajuniemi, Hajek, Lindbom, Reunanen, Khodorenko, Richards, etc.)

That's insulting for Johnston. He'd be exactly what we need in the pipeline. I'd lead with an offer of Lundkvist and Othmann (and I freaking love Othmann's game).

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

That's insulting for Johnston. He'd be exactly what we need in the pipeline. I'd lead with an offer of Lundkvist and Othmann (and I freaking love Othmann's game).

Holy sh*t. I'll be the first to say I do study prospects in their draft year but as soon as they're drafted by a western conference team I usually lose interest. No idea that Johnston's D+1 year point totals skyrocketed. You expect a sizable uptick but his has been dramatic.

 

[mm11]

First, Panarin and Kreider are just 30 years old. Kreider is a fitness freak and is in the midst of the best season of his career. Panarin doesn't have as many NHL miles on his body as most 30 year olds because he came to the league in his mid-20s. Zibby is getting older? He's 28. The hilarity of all of those claims is that your solution is...to trade a haul for a 37 year old player. If Zibanejad, Kreider, and Panarin are old, what is Pavelski? Dead? The Rangers window will open when they can compete beyond just the goalie and half a dozen skaters (and right now, the only consistent contributors are Bread, Strome, Zib, Kreider, Fox, and Trouba). They aren't going to trade a high potential piece for a rental they can't re-sign. That doesn't mean that Pavelski doesn't have high value. It just means that he has higher value to a team that is much closer to being a finished roster. You should shop him to a team like that, as they have reason to offer more than the Rangers do.

Time will always tell. Cheers mate.

 

[rangersfansince08]

First, Panarin and Kreider are just 30 years old. Kreider is a fitness freak and is in the midst of the best season of his career. Panarin doesn't have as many NHL miles on his body as most 30 year olds because he came to the league in his mid-20s. Zibby is getting older? He's 28. The hilarity of all of those claims is that your solution is...to trade a haul for a 37 year old player. If Zibanejad, Kreider, and Panarin are old, what is Pavelski? Dead? The Rangers window will open when they can compete beyond just the goalie and half a dozen skaters (and right now, the only consistent contributors are Bread, Strome, Zib, Kreider, Fox, and Trouba). They aren't going to trade a high potential piece for a rental they can't re-sign. That doesn't mean that Pavelski doesn't have high value. It just means that he has higher value to a team that is much closer to being a finished roster. You should shop him to a team like that, as they have reason to offer more than the Rangers do.

Don't forget we have VAN fans to remind us that Shesterkin is 26.

 

[smoneil]

Holy sh*t. I'll be the first to say I do study prospects in their draft year but as soon as they're drafted by a western conference team I usually lose interest. No idea that Johnston's D+1 year point totals skyrocketed. You expect a sizable uptick but his has been dramatic.

Yeah, this was what made that draft such a crap shoot. A bunch of guys just weren't able to play hockey in the year leading up to the draft. Johnston spent his draft year training and working on his diet (and growing generally). He was (IIRC) the first player off the board who hadn't played the previous year. Would the dramatic rise have happened without the Covid-forced period of emphasis on training and health? Who knows, but the kid is dynamic on the puck, plays a simple game that is likely to translate well, is a two-way center, and from all reports is a coach's dream in terms of his work ethic. There are very few players I'd trade Othmann for (he's another guy who I think will be great in this league), but for Johnston? It's "okay--Othmann and what else?"

 

[smoneil]

Don't forget we have VAN fans to remind us that Shesterkin is 26.

Well I can see the confusion. Shesty DOES have a subscription to LifeAlert, but that's for his driving, not his age, haha.

 

[LokiDog]

After Fox`s extension, Kakko RFA and Strome UFA this summer, Rangers have Miller, Lafreniere and Chytil RFA:s next year. Doubt NYR want to trade thoose either and I dont expect Rangers getting a 100M cap from Bettman or that all their RFA:s are taking 2M extensions..a

Please tell me how Rangers will manage their cap in the future?

And if they have to do trades, then now would be the time. Now they have players on cheap contracts and could add 1-2 really good contributors at deadline to contend, but to get you have to give. Doubt teams give 1st liners and Top2 D:s for your "We offer a 2nd rounder + unknown prospect"

Come on buddy. No one needs to tell you how the Rangers are going to manage the cap two off seasons from now to justify why the Rangers wouldn’t move Kakko for a rental. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

And moving Kakko for a rental wouldn’t help their cap situation either; his performance thus far dictates he’s unlikely to get much of a raise at all. To that point, unless Lafreniere really breaks out next year, his raise won’t be large either. The Rangers will let Strome walk. They’ll move Nemeth, Georgiev and likely Chytil.

But regardless, of an upcoming cap crunch:

1.) it doesn’t mean that trading the 2019 #2OA for a 40 year old rental is a good idea
2.) actually, if anything, it necessitates that if the Rangers are going to trade any of their top young assets, it almost HAS to be for a similarly aged and priced center who will be cost controlled and under contract for a longer time
3.) when it comes to pure rentals, the Rangers won’t be adding in any deal for retention because they don’t need it - they’ll have 33M (prorated) cap space at the TDL. They’re more likely to weaponize that to retain for other teams than they are to give any premium in a trade for retained salary
4.) the cost to rent even the best rental on the market (and sure, the way he’s playing, we can say Pavelski could be it), isn’t ever a #2OA pick
who hasn’t even finished his ELC yet

 

[mm11]

First, Panarin and Kreider are just 30 years old. Kreider is a fitness freak and is in the midst of the best season of his career. Panarin doesn't have as many NHL miles on his body as most 30 year olds because he came to the league in his mid-20s. Zibby is getting older? He's 28. The hilarity of all of those claims is that your solution is...to trade a haul for a 37 year old player. If Zibanejad, Kreider, and Panarin are old, what is Pavelski? Dead? The Rangers window will open when they can compete beyond just the goalie and half a dozen skaters (and right now, the only consistent contributors are Bread, Strome, Zib, Kreider, Fox, and Trouba). They aren't going to trade a high potential piece for a rental they can't re-sign. That doesn't mean that Pavelski doesn't have high value. It just means that he has higher value to a team that is much closer to being a finished roster. You should shop him to a team like that, as they have reason to offer more than the Rangers do.

Well-thought-out rebuke professor. Curious, do you think it's easy or attainable or even realistic to expect a guy like Kreider to equal his career year going forward, or have a Vezina quality campaign every year, not to mention a Norris dman season, 1oo point winger and 90 point center to boot? If so, the league has the next mid 80's Oilers or early 80's Islanders team. A middling 3rd year young vet like Kakko for a Playoff proven warrior is made for a championship run. Again, just my 2 cents, but I do wonder if some folks are afraid to win.

 

[smoneil]

Well-thought-out rebuke professor. Curious, do you think it's easy or attainable or even realistic to expect a guy like Kreider to equal his career year going forward, or have a Vezina quality campaign every year, not to mention a Norris dman season, 1oo point winger and 90 point center to boot? If so, the league has the next mid 80's Oilers or early 80's Islanders team. A middling 3rd year young vet like Kakko for a Playoff proven warrior is made for a championship run. Again, just my 2 cents, but I do wonder if some folks are afraid to win.

Kreider doesn't need to repeat this year. He just needs to remain a quality player. If you look at Shesterkin's numbers going back to the KHL, you'll see that this kind of stat line isn't abnormal for him. He is remarkably consistent. Fox is playing better this year than he did last year, and you've said nothing about why Panarin/Zibanejad would be declining as still relatively young players. Regardless, six guys and a goalie can't win a Cup.

What you aren't seeing is that the rest of the roster is loaded with players who are either too raw, too untested, or just plain bad (at one point, we had six 4th liners in the lineup, including one on the second line). Top lines get shut down in the playoffs all the time. To win the Cup, depth is crucial. Our depth isn't "championship run" ready, and the team won't be giving up key pieces of the rebuild to foolishly chase a cup prematurely. A deadline acquisition may mean the team wins an extra game or two, but anyone who has been watching the team can see that the only way they make a serious run at the Cup with this group is if Shesterkin goes full Superman and drags them there. And if he's going to do that, he can do it just as well without Pavelski as he could with him.

Also, why did you respond to the same post twice?