Proposal: NYR - Dallas

mm11

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
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Kreider doesn't need to repeat this year. He just needs to remain a quality player. If you look at Shesterkin's numbers going back to the KHL, you'll see that this kind of stat line isn't abnormal for him. He is remarkably consistent. Fox is playing better this year than he did last year, and you've said nothing about why Panarin/Zibanejad would be declining as still relatively young players. Regardless, six guys and a goalie can't win a Cup.

What you aren't seeing is that the rest of the roster is loaded with players who are either too raw, too untested, or just plain bad (at one point, we had six 4th liners in the lineup, including one on the second line). Top lines get shut down in the playoffs all the time. To win the Cup, depth is crucial. Our depth isn't "championship run" ready, and the team won't be giving up key pieces of the rebuild to foolishly chase a cup prematurely. A deadline acquisition may mean the team wins an extra game or two, but anyone who has been watching the team can see that the only way they make a serious run at the Cup with this group is if Shesterkin goes full Superman and drags them there. And if he's going to do that, he can do it just as well without Pavelski as he could with him.

Also, why did you respond to the same post twice?

sorry my friend, got sidetracked on life so had to stop short on the first post. So going to bank on Zibby and Breadman putting up 90-100 points seasons for how long? The rangers play in a strong eastern conference and an even stronger division and are right up there with the big boys. Why can't Igor carry them to a cup now? Pavelski is superclutch. Stranger things have happened. The blueshirts handled the Panthers pretty neatly this year. Who has the best record right now? Just curious. Agree to disagree, but I'm too old to be afraid to win.
 

smoneil

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Jul 14, 2004
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sorry my friend, got sidetracked on life so had to stop short on the first post. So going to bank on Zibby and Breadman putting up 90-100 points seasons for how long? The rangers play in a strong eastern conference and an even stronger division and are right up there with the big boys. Why can't Igor carry them to a cup now? Pavelski is superclutch. Stranger things have happened. The blueshirts handled the Panthers pretty neatly this year. Who has the best record right now? Just curious. Agree to disagree, but I'm too old to be afraid to win.


The year of the play-in mini series? The Rangers dominated the Canes. Curb stomped them. There was talk about Carolina arguing against the seeding system because of how they were supposedly "afraid" to face the Rangers. How'd that work out? Playoff hockey and regular season hockey are two very different things. And again, if the plan is to hope that Shesterkin can carry them to a Cup, he can do that with or without Pavelski. There's a difference between "being afraid to win" and "beings stupid with your assets to pursue a massive long shot." Slow and steady. Build the right way. We've got time to get through the two tough cap years we have coming up. We have time to let Laf and Kakko and Chytil become contributors rather than passengers. We have time to work more kids into the lineup (Cuylle, Othmann, Berard) and get this green roster a couple of playoff runs to get some experience under their belt. I'd rather let those things happen and then see them start taking their shot (when Bread and Kreider will be 32 and Trouba/Zib will be 30).

And if they DO decide to add, there are players who also have reputations of being playoff superclutch who wouldn't cost nearly what you want for Pavelski. I'm not saying the Rangers shouldn't try--but they don't have a great hand this year. Stay in the hand? Certainly. Make a couple of conservative bets? Sure. Go all-in with a Jack/King suited? Hell no.

And I'm old enough that I occasionally yell at clouds in a windowless room, haha, so I hear you.
 
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Kakko Schmakko

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Feb 24, 2018
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That's insulting for Johnston. He'd be exactly what we need in the pipeline. I'd lead with an offer of Lundkvist and Othmann (and I freaking love Othmann's game).

that is much more insulting to the Rangers, we will be fine without Johnston.
 

bernmeister

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Jun 11, 2010
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Da Big Apple
Your posts are interesting to read but are full of unrealistic hypotheticals. The Rangers aren't forcing Trouba to move if he's in the top 4 and the team is contending and if they trade him when he's 32 with 8M left for a couple of years the return is going to have salary coming back, only so much that is buryable. All that savings you thought you had that can go to the youngsters is partially eaten up in addition to a roster spot taken away.

They're not giving Lindgren away either to save a million or two by placing an inexperienced player on their top pairings if the team is in the contending window.

Reaves isn't "retiring" to help the Rangers.

The biggest fantasy is the "reworking" of the Kreider deal, which has to be illegal in the CBA. I mean, I guess you can convince him to retire and give up 20 or so million, offer him a front office job for a year and then he can return and recoup that 20 mill over a longer term but better cap hit.

Your dream of having a contending team for fifteen years relies on all these major contributors willingly riding off or being traded in order to help the elc players seamlessly pick up and make the exact same contribution at a cheaper rate until their elc expires. No drop-off, no seasons of adjustment everything is all unicorns galloping across rainbows with multiple Stanley Cups at the end.

The Rangers will be the only team in the NHL that forces their young star players to take short-term, less money bridge deals before they're eligible to be offer-sheeted in order to make this happen.

It's an interesting take, I'll say that.

Dispute the bold.
Trouba. We can't force him to anything but he can do us no favors and then post career, what goes around comes around. He can require us to eat him full 2 seasons more, but after that we get to deal. He is a quality RD in his prime, we will get signif offers and those which help us w/cap will up value of such offers. If an expiring loser is included, we can flip that loser to a bottom dweller for a pick/prospect, or buy him out. The other scenario is he sees the cap yields to no one, and with it the handwriting on the wall, and agree to an early deal which we will bend over backwards to be to the location(s) of his preference. Obv, when he signed his deal, there was no Fox, no Nils L, no Schneider. It was not clear Zib would be extended at this # with nmc protection. It is obv they can't afford him full term of his deal MUST deal him early to plug Scheneid to 2RD and Nils into 3RD. Faster he realizes there is no hope of him staying here beyond 2 years max, faster he realizes he can get something more from NY post career, and that could be worth early relocation.

Lindgren - they want to keep him, and he is at a reasonable #, but the finite amount of team cap available + lack of cap going up has constrained to pt where they have no other choice if they want to keep LaF/Kakko, etc, other than to deal Lindy, esp since Robertson, who finished runner up to Schenider in some D ranking and can be available soon, to have his elc plug in to 3LD. And that is not counting Jones or Nils L who are already here, both of who play either side.

Reaves - read somewhere -- unofficial spitballing speculation, don't remember where -- that if push comes to shove, they deal or buy him out. The cap crunch will be that bad. What I propped is an alternative, where he stays w/NY, gets paid, and then can return in 2 years or maybe less depending on Trouba. There are rules about to what extent that is kosher, but they do allow for players who retire to come back.

Kreider - you completely got wrong. Not offering him a desk job, that was Reaves only. Idea is if he trusts us -- and we would have to trust him as well b'c for all of a nanosecond he'd be a FA -- if he tears up his deal at 6+ for X years we would give him a deal at 5, 5.25, or 5.5, something like that for MORE [X +] years. We would also unofficially owe him a favor post career. Kreider could say 'hey, not my prob" or he could give them 1-ish 1+ cap relief at a critical time that won't' break him. Might be willing to do that to optimize team position.

My "dream" is not "15 years". It is a realistic 6-7 instead of a stupid short term 1-2, MAYBE 3 if we shoot ourselves in the foot by blowing a wad of elc talent and taking on cap problems just to add a star or 2.

Now, again, your position is totally disingenuous as you admit yourself to be an Islander fan. You have a right to your opinion, but let's not pretend it is in NYR interests, which arguably mine is.
 

Pure Slaughter Value

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Jun 6, 2002
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Kreider - you completely got wrong. Not offering him a desk job, that was Reaves only. Idea is if he trusts us -- and we would have to trust him as well b'c for all of a nanosecond he'd be a FA -- if he tears up his deal at 6+ for X years we would give him a deal at 5, 5.25, or 5.5, something like that for MORE [X +] years. We would also unofficially owe him a favor post career. Kreider could say 'hey, not my prob" or he could give them 1-ish 1+ cap relief at a critical time that won't' break him. Might be willing to do that to optimize team position.

My "dream" is not "15 years". It is a realistic 6-7 instead of a stupid short term 1-2, MAYBE 3 if we shoot ourselves in the foot by blowing a wad of elc talent and taking on cap problems just to add a star or 2.

Now, again, your position is totally disingenuous as you admit yourself to be an Islander fan. You have a right to your opinion, but let's not pretend it is in NYR interests, which arguably mine is.

Dispute the bold. You are going to have give an example or point to the CBA where you can tear up a contract and rework it. If this was true, you'd see it happen every year on every team.

Thinking that the front office of the Rangers is going to tell their leading goalscorer that his salary is too high and they need to rework the contract in order for lesser players to get paid more is absolutely mind-boggling and illegal.

My position is not totally disingenuous even as an Isles fan. I have about as much input as you do in the Rangers decisions. As a fan of hockey, it's obvious they have some tremendous pieces, are still below the tier of the EC elite teams and have tough decisions to make in the coming years.

The difference is I reside on planet Earth and you are in your own galaxy, far far away from reality. Your ideas of fixing the Rangers cap problems revolve around forcing players out with NMC clauses or getting a "significant offer" when trying to trade a player every team in the league knows you want to move at high cap and with term, players willing to retire early by accepting front-office jobs, working with players and their girlfriends/wives in order to find them a suitable place to live so the Rangers can work around cap issues or outright breaching the CBA by reworking a contract to pay a long-term Ranger less even though he's far exceeding the value of the contract he has.

The team is going to have to make one or two hard decisions but nothing so drastic, rule-bending or creative.

I do look forward to seeing how you plan on getting out of further cap crunches when Strome is signed long-term at 5+ with a NTC.
 

WhatWhat

Registered User
Aug 7, 2014
5,685
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I would trade Lundkvist plus 2 lesser prospects that we don't really need for Johnston. So maybe Lundkvist, plus 2 of (Henrikson, Tarnstrom, Edstrom, Pajuniemi, Hajek, Lindbom, Reunanen, Khodorenko, Richards, etc.)


So to get the kid who is lighting up the OHL and looking like an absolute steal you are willing to part with a lesser prospect and pieces that arent of value to you? Id also like to trade my townhouse + a spare couch and fridge for a detached home.
 

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