Proposal: NYR-BUF

[Trxjw]

TheScore posted an article about a hypothetical rebuild the Sabres could undergo and included a Jack Eichel to the Rangers trade. These were the pieces.

To New York:
Jack Eichel

To Buffalo:
Kaapo Kakko
Vitali Kravstov
Ryan Strome
Nils Lundkvist
2021 First Round Pick*
2022 Second Round Pick

*Buffalo receives 2022 First Round Pick if trade occurs after draft or if pick is in the top 5

Now the author is by no means an expert, but he does do this for a living we should hold his hypothetical in higher regard than the ones we’ve been coming up with.

Doing something for a living doesn't mean you're good at what you're doing. That hypothetical trade is a perfect example of that. It's totally delusional.

 

[bernmeister]

Jack Eichel is not going to be a ROR trade 2.0 and people saying so are making themselves look foolish. ROR trade was universally mocked the moment it was made. The stupidity in this thread both ways is amazing.

somewhat agree.
But the dominant factor here is what does Jack want?
If he goes slow and allows Sabes to maybe recover, which is a big IF and apparently will require time/getting lucky, then they don't HAVE TO move him which is best.

However, if he says "I am outta here" and everyone knows it, Sabes have less bargaining power.

I would not move Eichel now.
If he must be moved, I would wait until after exp dr.

 

[EK392000]

thanks for the share,
and no disrespect,
but I don't give a rat's rump what that guy thinks
there is no hypothetical higher regard

things are on their merit.
sure this is largely subjective that is fair.
But it is obvious that such a massive overpay guts the acquiring team, whether it be NYR or any other.

My hope is GMJG continues to recognize what bernmeister is saying no moving bluest blue chip elcs.

We have other nice pieces to deal for futures and we should execute our newly found ability to draft well with those futures.

Also, I find it hard to believe that all that was the actual offer. It may have been one or a couple of this one or that one, but not all those.
In any event, no bluest blue chips.

Signif considerations from taking on Skinner at 6.5
giving you Huska for worthless Hutton
and in addition to cap relief
Strome, Buch and Zib,
that is our base

or no deal, and if you get a better offer, no hard feelings, more power to you.

You keep pushing this narrative of gutting the Rangers prospect pool for Eichel as if he’s a rental. You have him for 6 more years, and he will challenge Panarin for Rangers MVP for every single one of those. You shouldn’t be viewing it as giving up your future for now because Eichel would be the future, and a damn good one at that.

 

[EK392000]

Doing something for a living doesn't mean you're good at what you're doing. That hypothetical trade is a perfect example of that. It's totally delusional.

I’m not saying the offer is spot on or even close because I wouldn’t know, but the demands of his job is to look at the league holistically, not from a Rangers or Sabres perspective. This means that his evaluations are most likely more accurate than what you and I could conjure up. That alone makes me weigh his proposal more than what Rangers and Sabres fans have been pitching (I’m neither btw).

 

[cwede]

You are a better man than I, even if you are not Gunga Din.

the '39 film was a fave of my Dad's, I am a fan of Kipling, and my sign is Aquarius (the water-bearer)

thank you for the shout-out

 

[cwede]

You keep pushing this narrative of gutting the Rangers prospect pool for Eichel as if he’s a rental. You have him for 6 more years, and he will challenge Panarin for Rangers MVP for every single one of those. You shouldn’t be viewing it as giving up your future for now because Eichel would be the future, and a damn good one at that.

I don't disagree with that point. You're right, this isn't a rental, its a top talent in his prime.
Only disagreeing with the NBA-style 'over the top' trade proposals, which have little precedent in this league (just Lindros ~30 years back)

Eichel, if traded, will yield something like 1 or 2 young or prime proven players, 1 or 2 top prospects, 1 or 2 prime picks, but NOT 2 and 2 and 2, or more.
Thornton didn't. Seguin didn't. Nash didn't.

It's fun for fans, pundits to spin the wheel, but the return won't be crazy.
It will be a very rich package, probably mixing some immediate help, with some high-upside prospects and picks.

Buffalo will do well.
But it most likely won't be on the scale of proposals, like above, involving 5 1sts (recent or future) plus a 2nd.

 

[unicornpig]

What was funny about my post? The fact that he’s been good this year? Or the fact that I called you out for evaluating a player you don’t watch or know anything about?

i find it funny that you would get worked up that someone called him a bust. you dont get picked 2OA so that you can be great a long the boards. you get picked 2ndOA to put the puck in the net........ it'll be fun reliving this thread in a few years and laughing at ranger fans overvaluing their players like they always do.

 

[Kupo]

i find it funny that you would get worked up that someone called him a bust. you dont get picked 2OA so that you can be great a long the boards. you get picked 2ndOA to put the puck in the net........ it'll be fun reliving this thread in a few years and laughing at ranger fans overvaluing their players like they always do.

Who’s worked up? Clearly not me

I never mentioned anything regarding Kakko’s value with you, so I’m not sure why you’d bring it up.

What I did comment on was you saying he’s looking more and more like a bust which is downright dumb.

Your post history shows you clearly have issues with anything related to the Rangers. You’re delusional enough to believe the league purposely helped the Rangers these last few drafts, L O L.

 

[Trxjw]

I’m not saying the offer is spot on or even close because I wouldn’t know, but the demands of his job is to look at the league holistically, not from a Rangers or Sabres perspective. This means that his evaluations are most likely more accurate than what you and I could conjure up. That alone makes me weigh his proposal more than what Rangers and Sabres fans have been pitching (I’m neither btw).

I mean I can't even count the times that people on this board had accurately valued players while the pundits had it completely wrong. I mean, just from a Rangers POV our most respected beat writer regularly whiffs on trade value. McDonagh had to return Point or Sergachev. Stepan had to return Keller. Etc, etc, etc. Yet posters on our board had the pieces nailed down almost exactly leading up to the deal.

Don't put your faith in sports writers. They're snake oil salesmen the vast majority of the time.

 

[unicornpig]

Who’s worked up? Clearly not me

I never mentioned anything regarding Kakko’s value with you, so I’m not sure why you’d bring it up.

What I did comment on was you saying he’s looking more and more like a bust which is downright dumb.

Your post history shows you clearly have issues with anything related to the Rangers. You’re delusional enough to believe the league purposely helped the Rangers these last few drafts, L O L.

You're clearly upset, lay off the boards you clearly need it lol

 

[EK392000]

I mean I can't even count the times that people on this board had accurately valued players while the pundits had it completely wrong. I mean, just from a Rangers POV our most respected beat writer regularly whiffs on trade value. McDonagh had to return Point or Sergachev. Stepan had to return Keller. Etc, etc, etc. Yet posters on our board had the pieces nailed down almost exactly leading up to the deal.

Don't put your faith in sports writers. They're snake oil salesmen the vast majority of the time.

The issue is writers aren’t transparent with their bias. If the writer who offered that package for Eichel revealed his bias as a Sabres fan, I would value it less. I guess I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he’s doing his job in good faith and not tipping the scales in the favour of his team. I also imagine that his article had to be screened before it could be published, hopefully detecting any Sabres bias, if any. I suppose that’s just wishful thinking on my part.

 

[Kupo]

You're clearly upset, lay off the boards you clearly need it lol

Great rebuttal, as usual.

Avoid the discussion that’s not going your way because it’ll expose you for being a hater who comments on players he doesn’t know anything about.

 

[Trxjw]

The issue is writers aren’t transparent with their bias. If the writer who offered that package for Eichel revealed his bias as a Sabres fan, I would value it less. I guess I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt and assuming that he’s doing his job in good faith and not tipping the scales in the favour of his team. I also imagine that his article had to be screened before it could be published, hopefully detecting any Sabres bias, if any. I suppose that’s just wishful thinking on my part.

Fair enough. I just have less faith in them than you do, I guess, haha.

People with connections around the Rangers board have been pretty adamant that there's a no-go list when it comes to Eichel: Kakko, Lafreniere, Fox, and Shesterkin. K'Andre Miller is making a case for himself to get on that list as well. So given that info from posters I trust completely, I can't see the Rangers offering up Kakko at all, let alone adding two blue chip prospects, a 2nd line center, and a 1st and 2nd round pick on top of him.

 

[unicornpig]

Great rebuttal, as usual.

Avoid the discussion that’s not going your way because it’ll expose you for being a hater who comments on players he doesn’t know anything about.

Rebuttal to what, you don't watch him amazing along the boards. That's your argument. Like I said stay off the board cause you obviously live on it lol

 

[Kupo]

Rebuttal to what, you don't watch him amazing along the boards. That's your argument. Like I said stay off the board cause you obviously live on it lol

Now you’re telling me what to do?

Your attention to detail is almost as pathetic as your single sentence responses. Kakko is very good along the boards. He’s also turning into a possession monster who creates opportunities. That’s what I said. I also brought up the level of improvement he’s shown from last year to this year. Considering he just turned 20, every aspect of his game will continue to grow.

But you keep doing you. Keep being a blatantly obvious Rangers hater who thinks the league purposely helped out them out by rigging two drafts. Keep thinking Adam Fox is a 3rd pairing dmen. You’re just a wonderful gem of information. A real hockey-guru.

 

[unicornpig]

Now you’re telling me what to do?

Your attention to detail is almost as pathetic as your single sentence responses. Kakko is very good along the boards. He’s also turning into a possession monster who creates opportunities. That’s what I said. I also brought up the level of improvement he’s shown from last year to this year. Considering he just turned 20, every aspect of his game will continue to grow.

But you keep doing you. Keep being a blatantly obvious Rangers hater who thinks the league purposely helped out them out by rigging two drafts. Keep thinking Adam Fox is a 3rd pairing dmen. You’re just a wonderful gem of information. A real hockey-guru.

you're so sad it hurts. Your parents should be so proud

 

[Kupo]

you're so sad it hurts. Your parents should be so proud

And you keep avoiding talking about Kakko’s game - good or bad. A clear indication that you don’t know jack shit about him. But because he plays for the Rangers, he sucks and will be a bust.

My parents have both passed away. Your juvenile jabs just show you’re getting upset that you’re being exposed as a biased kid who doesn’t know much about hockey.

 

[Kublakhan]

now can we lock this thread ^^^^

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

To New York:
Jack Eichel (6 years left @ 10 Million)

To Buffalo:
Filip Chytil (1 year left @ 894,166)
Kaapo Kakko (2 years left @ 925,000)
Ryan Strome (2 years left @ 4.5 Million)

New York’s Rationale:
Addresses the most glaring hole in their lineup at C with one the league’s premier talent with 6 years left on his contract. The Rangers look almost ready to contend and adding Eichel is a gigantic step forward.

Buffalo’s Rationale:
Puts Eichel out of his misery while recouping some valuable and young assets that will be apart of their core long term. If they can flip Hall with a plus for a decent young defensemen or a D prospect, their core will be pretty solid.

Does this at least get the conversation started between Buffalo and New York? Who adds or subtracts?

*I purposely did not include picks in the package going back to Buffalo because they don’t draft too well.

EDIT: Please provide feedback rather than just saying easy no from whichever side. I actually want to understand where I went wrong.

EDIT 2: Initially included Kravstov as wellbut removed because others said it was an overpayment.

this basically stamps that buffalo is a bottom feeder for the next 10 years

the talent drop off from eichel to kakko/strome/chytil is steep and I would rather have a line of one A+ player and two Cs vs a line of three B grade players.


look at what crosby did with guys like dupuis and sheary. look at what mcdavid did for kassian when his career was almost dead. even kopitar has spent years doing it with little help on the wings and even brought Dustin browns career back when it looked like he was toast

 

[bernmeister]

You keep pushing this narrative of gutting the Rangers prospect pool for Eichel as if he’s a rental. You have him for 6 more years, and he will challenge Panarin for Rangers MVP for every single one of those. You shouldn’t be viewing it as giving up your future for now because Eichel would be the future, and a damn good one at that.

As I have explained umpteen times that is not relevant b'c it is not in a vacuum. Eich brings his 10m with him, and we cannot sacrifice bluest blue chip elcs with downward pressure on salary for Eich or anyone else.

We are not gutting the team for one guy.
I see the nice term.
But the reality of hard cap forces my narrative to prevail.

 

[EK392000]

As I have explained umpteen times that is not relevant b'c it is not in a vacuum. Eich brings his 10m with him, and we cannot sacrifice bluest blue chip elcs with downward pressure on salary for Eich or anyone else.

We are not gutting the team for one guy.
I see the nice term.
But the reality of hard cap forces my narrative to prevail.

Downward pressure on salary because of elcs makes sense if you’re taking McDavid or Matthews because they produced great numbers while still on their elcs, so their value is a lot greater than their salary. The same can’t be said for Kakko. So you can keep him because he’s on an elc, but don’t expect much more production than a player making 925. Maybe he produces more next year, but until then, your argument that he’s worth keeping by virtue of his elc doesn’t stand.

 

[bernmeister]

Downward pressure on salary because of elcs makes sense if you’re taking McDavid or Matthews because they produced great numbers while still on their elcs, so their value is a lot greater than their salary. The same can’t be said for Kakko. So you can keep him because he’s on an elc, but don’t expect much more production than a player making 925. Maybe he produces more next year, but until then, your argument that he’s worth keeping by virtue of his elc doesn’t stand.

Sorry but no.
However, don't take my word for it.
A credible professor of economics/business/finance will recognize this is what is called an opportunity cost.
In short, and how that applies here, all these elcs buy time before their salary begins to rise.
You make decisions about how to apply the [cap] room you are getting from cheaper [salaried] guys --- which is a benefit ONLY while it lasts. Once you trade an elc, and you are replacing it with a higher salary player, that is a constraint vs overall cap capacity and flexibility.
And we are going to need Nils L + Krav elc to underwrite soon down the road when for example Fox goes from elc-> rfa.
And also, there are dirt cheap guys like Lemieux who will need a bit more when their contract is up.
elc->rfa, rfa->ufa, a bit here, a bit there, and it adds up.

And whoever replaces Zib/Buch/Strome who are fine now but we cannot afford long term, is not gonna be zero.

So given all of the above is a reality for NYR, Eichel is a splurge.
He may be a splurge worth taking or not, that is a fair ? to debate.
But he IS a splurge and we have to be careful.

In roughly 3 yrs Trouba will near end of his NMC and may be willing to let it go early, and NY will replace him with Scneider and his elc.

Prior to then we want to roll out our blue chips and see what they can do.

I have advocated seeing if there was any workaround to prevent Sabes from losing Eich.
If he insists on forcing the issue then you either have to do something dramatic [add multiple impact players] to change his mind --- and apparently few want to deal Dahlin to enable that --- or when push does come to shove, JE will go.

Good luck

 

[One Winged Angel]

well, interested gm of teams, for which eichel wouldn't lift his nmc, should act before the nmc kicks in to get him. and if you are a gm of a preferred eichel destination shouldn't you act before those other gm's?

No, because they all know they can get him for a lesser price if he controls where he goes.

 

[ThreeLeftSkates]

Mark my words:
before the Stanley Cup is awarded, an announcement will be made and the board will know what type of work I do.
Carnival barker is not even close.

Now as you have nothing constructive to say, why don't you give the obvious hate and ignorance a rest?

Why make us wait? Tell us now, so we can bow to your obviously superior intellect. Hatred and ignorance? Boredom and an easy target is more like it.

 

[Kublakhan]

Welp don't think Jacks going anywhere till summer at least now..