Confirmed with Link: Nylander signs extension of 8 years - 11.5M AAV

[Gary Nylund]

They've looked great the last few nights.

This is a good regular season team, we all know that. They've also been a really bad playoff team as evidenced by 7 consecutive sub .500 playoffs.

So I'm pretty sure that when the poster you're responding to said "Until this group shows some serious backbone/resolve when it counts", he meant playoffs, not games against a bottom feeder in January so your response "They've looked great the last few nights" is missing the point.

Cliff notes - beating up on a crappy team doesn't show backbone/resolve. JMHO.

 

[Confucius]

Not sure. Either way they made it to round #3. If only we were so lucky. Maybe this year?

Ah 6 years ago… I thought we were talking about moves they made recently by moving on from their stars

 

[Gary Nylund]

Every game counts, it’s a long season, a long winter

Some games count more than others. I remember when people were cheering like mad because we had a record breaking November and I was like shrug, let's see how we do in the playoffs and of course in the playoffs we sucked again. I would trade a record breaking November for a game 7 victory and day of the week and twice on Sunday's and while the games against SJ "count", they don't count for squat when we're trying to decide if this is team that is ready to finally go deep in the playoffs.

 

[GoonieFace]

This is a good regular season team, we all know that. They've also been a really bad playoff team as evidenced by 7 consecutive sub .500 playoffs.

So I'm pretty sure that when the poster you're responding to said "Until this group shows some serious backbone/resolve when it counts", he meant playoffs, not games against a bottom feeder in January so your response "They've looked great the last few nights" is missing the point.

Cliff notes - beating up on a crappy team doesn't show backbone/resolve. JMHO.

The good news is the East is looking rather blah. The bad news, it’s the Leafs

 

[Confucius]

Some games count more than others. I remember when people were cheering like mad because we had a record breaking November and I was like shrug, let's see how we do in the playoffs and of course in the playoffs we sucked again. I would trade a record breaking November for a game 7 victory and day of the week and twice on Sunday's and while the games against SJ "count", they don't count for squat when we're trying to decide if this is team that is ready to finally go deep in the playoffs.

Yeah for sure I’d give up a feel good November for a cup. Pretty difficult to win a Cup without being a very good regular season team so, I don’t know if there really is that much of a difference. I totally understand the Cup or we are a bad team perspective. It’s just that I look at it a little differently

 

[Gary Nylund]

The good news is the East is looking rather blah. The bad news, it’s the Leafs

Yeah exactly. I mean we've been so mediocre this season, it's completely logical to say sell off pending UFA's and reload, especially now that Nylander's extended so next year the core will still be intact. On the other hand, there isn't one single scary team in the East so you could make an argument for trading futures for a rental Dman and going for it.

If it's me, I'm saying no trading our top prospects and 1st rounders for rentals and I hope that if the price for Tanev is a 1st round pick we just say no. The East is so weak that if the guys we have now can for once, not turn into cupcakes when the playoffs start, there's not a team in the East that we need to fear.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yeah for sure I’d give up a feel good November for a cup. Pretty difficult to win a Cup without being a very good regular season team so, I don’t know if there really is that much of a difference. I totally understand the Cup or we are a bad team perspective. It’s just that I look at it a little differently

It's not even that, it's just that after so many years of regular season success followed by playoff failure, the regular season wins are so unsatisfying. This season we also kind of suck in the regular season though (at least so far) so who knows, maybe they'll be ready for the playoff grind this time around. Kind of hard to bank on that, but I guess you never know.

I wouldn't say this is a bad team. But if someone said this is a good regular season team and a bad playoff team, I don't see that I have anything solid to use to dispute that claim.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Wow, really? I didn't remember that but yeah, I do remember some people were all over him around that time saying all kinds of nonsense about how now that the Sweden trip wasn't done he didn't care any more (paraphrasing). They look silly now, and Nylander looks like a superstar!

Anyhow, I'm not happy with the AAV combined with the NMC but at least I can just be happy when he has a great game now, instead of thinking in the back of my mind oh f***, there goes another million.

The thing that pisses me off the most about that contract is that if Marner was a UFA, you could maybe justify paying him 11 million. But he was an RFA FFS, Dubas had leverage and he refused to use it. Instead he went public saying that he wanted to get Marner signed fast because he "learned" from the Nylander negotiations which basically handed all the leverage to Marner's agent and boy did he ever use it.

I think Dubas wanted to be a good guy
/well liked by the players and that was arguably his biggest weakness. Buisness is Buisness and these guys weren't giving an inch

 

[Captain Crunch]

Has nothing to do with "balls". What players are paid isn't about how many playoff rounds the team won, for any team.

Especially when you’re talking about this sad ownership and Shanahan, combined with these greedy players. It’s called, “The Perfect Storm!”

 

[ACC1224]

Yeah for sure I’d give up a feel good November for a cup. Pretty difficult to win a Cup without being a very good regular season team so, I don’t know if there really is that much of a difference. I totally understand the Cup or we are a bad team perspective. It’s just that I look at it a little differently

To continually moan about a previous playoff during a current season seems a little dumb. Nothing can change until the next playoff starts, why not enjoy the season until that opportunity presents itself?

 

[Gary Nylund]

To continually moan about a previous playoff during a current season seems a little dumb. Nothing can change until the next playoff starts, why not enjoy the season until that opportunity presents itself?

What seems a little dumb, is thinking that people can't enjoy the season because they discuss the past.

You've made literally hundreds of posts moaning about how awful Dubas was even though that's ancient history. I hope you're still able to enjoy the season despite all the moaning about the past that you've been doing.

I think Dubas wanted to be a good guy
/well liked by the players and that was arguably his biggest weakness. Buisness is Buisness and these guys weren't giving an inch

I wonder if Dubas was still in charge, would he have been able to get Nylander renewed at a better price? I mean after all, he was the one who promised never to trade Nylander as long as he was the GM and he kept that promise, maybe that good will would have paid off?

 

[Confucius]

I wonder if Dubas was still in charge, would he have been able to get Nylander renewed at a better price? I mean after all, he was the one who promised never to trade Nylander as long as he was the GM and he kept that promise, maybe that good will would have paid off?

Considering William got 8 years nmc treliving also guaranteed he wasn’t going to trade him. I think William’s agent wouldn’t give an inch, business is business. Pretty sure William would do what his agent says.

 

[Da Mash]

It’s the only sport that changes the rules in playoffs and the change or constantly turning a blind eye to infractions benefit goons. Skill players suffer

No wonder it’s harder to score etc because interference is rampant and cross checking and cheap shots increase.

fans always say….we need more heart ….more grit but in reality the grit part only happens because the refs let more infractions slide.

That’s why big defenceman who can’t skate play better in playoffs because they can interfere…crosscheck …clutch and grab and then all we hear is how much grit and heart they have.

Then they are back being plugs in regular season

No other sport does this .

 

[Confucius]

It’s the only sport that changes the rules in playoffs and the change or constantly turning a blind eye to infractions benefit goons. Skill players suffer

No wonder it’s harder to score etc because interference is rampant and cross checking and cheap shots increase.

fans always say….we need more heart ….more grit but in reality the grit part only happens because the refs let more infractions slide.

That’s why big defenceman who can’t skate play better in playoffs because they can interfere…crosscheck …clutch and grab and then all we hear is how much grit and heart they have.

Then they are back being plugs in regular season

No other sport does this .

It is a different game, almost the same as me stating I’m the best at checkers and your reply is “yeah but you suck at chess.” Well we are currently playing checkers. Let’s worry about chess in chess season. lol!

 

[Ziggdiezan]

What seems a little dumb, is thinking that people can't enjoy the season because they discuss the past.

You've made literally hundreds of posts moaning about how awful Dubas was even though that's ancient history. I hope you're still able to enjoy the season despite all the moaning about the past that you've been doing.


I wonder if Dubas was still in charge, would he have been able to get Nylander renewed at a better price? I mean after all, he was the one who promised never to trade Nylander as long as he was the GM and he kept that promise, maybe that good will would have paid off?

I think the second we went into this season without Nylander traded or resigned we threw all the leverage out of the window and were damned either way. I also think these guys are asking for top dollar regardless of who the GM is.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Considering William got 8 years nmc treliving also guaranteed he wasn’t going to trade him. I think William’s agent wouldn’t give an inch, business is business. Pretty sure William would do what his agent says.

I think the second we went into this season without Nylander traded or resigned we threw all the leverage out of the window and were damned either way. I also think these guys are asking for top dollar regardless of who the GM is.

My guess is that you guys are probably right and that it wouldn't have made a difference, it was just a random idle though. Can never be 100% sure though.

 

[Sypher04]

Not one gm in the league did what Dubas did and spend half the cap on 4 similar type forwards...not one.

No, but that wasn’t really the argument as I see it.

They swept the team we lost to in 7.

Huh? The only year we could have even potentially played the same teams in the playoffs was the north division year and Montreal, the team we lost to in 7 went to the cup. What am I missing/forgetting?

Winnipeg was swept by Montreal, not the other way around.

 

[All Mod Cons]

For what it’s worth, any model that rates Nylander at a bottom 10% defensive player in the league is ridiculous. He’s not Selke candidate but he’s far from bad.

Gotta question the value of any of these defensive metrics when that’s the result you’re getting.

There is no value to these score cards and graphics. They're completely irrelevant. They are made for people who haven't played a day of sport in their life to be able join in debates and post them as if to provide some kind of point.

Take as a very current topical example, Benoit. When he signed with us, the usual gang spam the threads with these type of score cards. As if they are of any relevance to the player themselves. They are not. Benoit comes on, plays the exact same way he has done throughout his career and now everything is looking hunky dory.

The player hasn't changed (especially a guy like Benoit) and yet a large portion of our fanbase is 'pleasantly suprised' that he is actually the player he's always been.

If you use your eyes and watch the games, you'll know nothing has changed in the player. But because of the creation of these irrelevant score cards, apparently he's improved exponentially.

JFresh and the rest of the fancy stats loving media types have created a mini industry within the sport that is both irrelevant and meaningless.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

It’s the only sport that changes the rules in playoffs and the change or constantly turning a blind eye to infractions benefit goons. Skill players suffer

No wonder it’s harder to score etc because interference is rampant and cross checking and cheap shots increase.

fans always say….we need more heart ….more grit but in reality the grit part only happens because the refs let more infractions slide.

That’s why big defenceman who can’t skate play better in playoffs because they can interfere…crosscheck …clutch and grab and then all we hear is how much grit and heart they have.

Then they are back being plugs in regular season

No other sport does this .

Toughness has been a part of the game since day 1 on the ponds. Don't cry about it during the softest era ever, the game has been ruined enough.

The rules don't change, the players do. They call enough penalties these days and completely ruin the game flow.

 

[authentic]

I really think his dip last season was related to his buddy Sandin being traded. Not saying he'll score 120 but I'm not expecting an extended slump like that again.

I’m not saying he’ll score 120 either but I’m also not saying he won’t. I think he’s good for 110+ and a solid playoff run.

 

[saffronleaf]

It’s the only sport that changes the rules in playoffs and the change or constantly turning a blind eye to infractions benefit goons. Skill players suffer

No wonder it’s harder to score etc because interference is rampant and cross checking and cheap shots increase.

fans always say….we need more heart ….more grit but in reality the grit part only happens because the refs let more infractions slide.

That’s why big defenceman who can’t skate play better in playoffs because they can interfere…crosscheck …clutch and grab and then all we hear is how much grit and heart they have.

Then they are back being plugs in regular season

No other sport does this .

On top of that if the leafs ever get physical then we get penalized and even suspended. See kadri x2, Clifford, bunting.

 

[ToneDog]

No, but that wasn’t really the argument as I see it.



Huh? The only year we could have even potentially played the same teams in the playoffs was the north division year and Montreal, the team we lost to in 7 went to the cup. What am I missing/forgetting?

Winnipeg was swept by Montreal, not the other way around.

Correct in round 2. Brain cramp. Lol.

 

[Jojalu]

There is no value to these score cards and graphics. They're completely irrelevant. They are made for people who haven't played a day of sport in their life to be able join in debates and post them as if to provide some kind of point.

Take as a very current topical example, Benoit. When he signed with us, the usual gang spam the threads with these type of score cards. As if they are of any relevance to the player themselves. They are not. Benoit comes on, plays the exact same way he has done throughout his career and now everything is looking hunky dory.

The player hasn't changed (especially a guy like Benoit) and yet a large portion of our fanbase is 'pleasantly suprised' that he is actually the player he's always been.

If you use your eyes and watch the games, you'll know nothing has changed in the player. But because of the creation of these irrelevant score cards, apparently he's improved exponentially.

JFresh and the rest of the fancy stats loving media types have created a mini industry within the sport that is both irrelevant and meaningless.

I wouldn't go that far. What does bother me at times about pure analytics is the refusal to accept intagibles inside the game.

Because their is no way to measure toughness, leadership, clutch factor, they simply dismiss it as not true.

Anyone who has ever played, coached a day in elite sports can tell you it is easy to spot someone who has the Dawg in them.

Analytics are useful for a lot of things. Everyone is measured on an equal scale so when you don't have a chance to see 700 players on a nightly basis, you can get a sample of what their abilities are.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Well it’s only fair after all it’s the regular season that pays the players, playoffs pay them nothing

They don't get a paycheck during the playoffs, but I'm sure their performance affects their (next) contract.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Wow, really? I didn't remember that but yeah, I do remember some people were all over him around that time saying all kinds of nonsense about how now that the Sweden trip wasn't done he didn't care any more (paraphrasing). They look silly now, and Nylander looks like a superstar!

Anyhow, I'm not happy with the AAV combined with the NMC but at least I can just be happy when he has a great game now, instead of thinking in the back of my mind oh f***, there goes another million.

The thing that pisses me off the most about that contract is that if Marner was a UFA, you could maybe justify paying him 11 million. But he was an RFA FFS, Dubas had leverage and he refused to use it. Instead he went public saying that he wanted to get Marner signed fast because he "learned" from the Nylander negotiations which basically handed all the leverage to Marner's agent and boy did he ever use it.

That's scary. He 'learned' from the Nylander negotiations that if he waited he'd have to pay more (7 instead of maybe 6?), so for Marner he signed quickly to keep the number down? What did he think he would have to pay if he waited? How much more than 11?