Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[tuckerintensity]

Comparing 7 v 8 years absolutely makes sense.

It only makes sense of the Leafs are prepared to walk him into free agency... and they aren't. So no, it doesn't make sense, it's just more smoke and mirrors on trying to get him to sign for less.

Not too mention if the Leafs were offering 9.5, they wouldn't be a million miles apart.

 

[ITM]

I'm on record before the playoffs as having Nylander as the standard and if the others can't see the logic in it, then...we maximize the unwilling.

Here's the gist of the problem: Matthews and Marner haven't acted in good faith. Say what you will about Nylander holding out, about Tavares' signing and the subsequent threat (I suspect) of Marner holding out (given Matthews was always going to be signed at a premium vis a vis McDavid), but the performance side of it is absolutely in Nylander's favor.

His performance in comparison in the regular season and the playoffs is equivocal. The eye-test says he doesn't go into the corners...But he does go to the front of net and he gets there by driving there. He gains the zone better than anyone on our club in the regular season and the playoffs.

There's nothing statistically, as Nylander improves upon his seasons performances, that obligates Nylander take a substantial discount when Matthews and Marner BELIEVE they are entitled to a sacrifice-free existence...Say what one might about Nylander's contract, but it was closer to being appropriate for any number of reasons than the other two, certain goals in mind.

He's graduating appropriately. I would pay him in the $9M range and give him term. He plays a style and has the attributes to maintain his production/performance into his early to mid-thirties.

That he's actually come out and said (a source would be helpful) he will take less if others do is another subtle act of leadership I haven't seen offered by the other two.

Now if he says he's also including the number 21 or 13 in his next contract, I might question what I've just provided. Breathless narcissism aside...

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Tkachuk's contract is pretty good, which makes sense considering he got to hand-pick his favourite tax-free destination contender and needed to sign a quick contract to facilitate his trade request, but you're leaving out the part where he played at a 23 goal, 63 point pace the prior season - which is more similar to what Nylander was doing as a rookie. Players aren't paid based just on one inflated year. And FYI, all of our stars have been massively better playoff performers than Tkachuk had when he signed, since you mentioned it.

Then why was Marner paid as a 90 point player at the time? He scored in the 60's the two seasons prior.

There's NO consistency. None. It's all just spin, lies, and propaganda to try and rationalize this clusterf*** of a mess.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Seriously doubt that.

What was it that you found especially impressive about Tkachuk in the playoffs prior to signing? Was it the 45 point pace or the bad defense?

Do you work for Dubas?

What exactly do you think Dubas - the GM of another team - has to do with Nylander's current extension negotiation?

 

[socko]

Talking about Tkachuk getting paid after only 1 measly 42/104 season, when Matthews got paid with a career high 73 point season.

Only the Dubas brigade can not burn up from the hypocrisy. They have a special protective layer.

 

[ToneDog]

Then why was Marner paid as a 90 point player at the time? He scored in the 60's the two seasons prior.

There's NO consistency. None. It's all just spin, lies, and propaganda to try and rationalize this clusterf*** of a mess.

Our 87 point soft, floating winger is asking 10.5m while Florida is paying 2x100+ point, best power forward in the league 9.5m. It is no wonder we can't win with this group. They are f***ing embarrassing when it comes to getting their share with the little playoff success they have. Get them the f*** out of here already.

 

[EGL22]

Is Forsberg an equal player? He's had one huge season two years ago, outside of that he's been like a 55-65 point player.

Lots of factors in evaluating players but if points is your main thing I believe they are very equal in PPG.

In here Nylander will be called superior and on the Nashville board Forsberg will be called the superior player.

The only real advantage I give Nylander is health as Forsberg has missed many more games.

But if both were healthy for 80 games and 8.5 I would be good having either one.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yay. We MIGHT be able to sign Nylander for similar money as Florida paid a 100 point player.

Tkachuk wasn't a "100 point player". Tkachuk was a guy who hit 100 points (and over P/GP) once in his 6 year career; following up a poor 60-point season.

Then why was Marner paid as a 90 point player at the time?

He wasn't. He was paid based on what he had shown throughout his entire ELC, which was one of the best pre-signing periods for a young player in cap era history.

 

[kb]

Talking about Tkachuk getting paid after only 1 measly 42/104 season, when Matthews got paid with a career high 73 point season.

Only the Dubas brigade can not burn up from the hypocrisy. They have a special protective layer.

Comparing a 2nd vs a 3rd contract is disingenuous, along with thinking players get paid based on one season.

 

[ToneDog]

Tkachuk wasn't a "100 point player". Tkachuk was a guy who hit 100 points (and over P/GP) once in his 6 year career; following up a poor 60-point season.

He wasn't. He was paid based on what he had shown throughout his entire ELC, which was one of the best pre-signing periods in cap era history.

LOL. How many times has our 100 point $11m winger, selke finalist hit 100 points? Can't wait for your spin.

 

[Gary Nylund]

LOL. How many times has our 100 point $11m winger, selke finalist hit 100 points? Can't wait for your spin.

We have a 100 point winger? Hey that's cool, I had no idea. $11m still sounds like a lot so not sure what to say about that but still, 100 point winger, wow!

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Tkachuk wasn't a "100 point player". Tkachuk was a guy who hit 100 points (and over P/GP) once in his 6 year career; following up a poor 60-point season.

He wasn't. He was paid based on what he had shown throughout his entire ELC, which was one of the best pre-signing periods in cap era history.

10.9x6, eh? Was Marner paid as a 65 point player or a 90 point player? If Marner scored around 65 points again his final elc year, would he have gotten anywhere CLOSE to 10.9x6? No? So it was the ONE 90 point season that inflated his contract so much?

Dekes for days: "Players aren't paid based on one inflated year." Lol, can't make this stuff up.

Watching this spin is SOOO entertaining. I often get popcorn ready to eat when engaging in conversation with you.

 

[Dekes For Days]

LOL. How many times has our 100 point $11m winger, selke finalist hit 100 points?

Marner has paced for 100 points or more in three straight seasons, and will likely have at least one more before he signs. He also has two additional years in the 90s, and at least one of them is more similar to a 100+ point offensive impact. That's on top of the Selke-caliber defense, and top tier PK impacts.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Tavares makes 7 million his final year with the leafs. After two years, he'd like get 4 or 5 million on the open market. So, following your example over 8 years, Tavares would make more money going 11x7 + 1x4 than if he went 9.6x8.

It's a gamble. Patrick Marleau signed for pretty much the same aav at the age 37 as he had on his previous contract.

We've seen it work in this way a few times. Hyman was going to take the exact same $ value over 7 or 8 years with Edmonton if they worked out a sign and trade for example.

28 year old signing for max term is clearly looking for their big pay day. Everything after that is gravy, but relies on staying healthy, still being significantly productive, etc - which is why in a lot of these cases agents have identified a $ value they are striving to get on either 7 or 8 years and don't seemingly care one way or another.

Otherwise we would see more players do what Matthews wants to do, and Willy/others would want 3-4 years at big money in his prime before hitting the 8 year deal after the fact.

Until told otherwise - assuming he wants 7 or 8 years, its inconceivable that they don't bridge the gap between them assuming there is at least some wiggle room between player and team here.

 

[socko]

Dubas doesn't need 1 year, he's already pulled the trigger based on zero years, complete leaf of faith. One year is a luxury when you have Dubas.

 

[ToneDog]

Marner has paced for 100 points or more in three straight seasons, and will likely have at least one more before he signs. He also has two additional years in the 90s, and at least one of them is more similar to a 100+ point offensive impact. That's on top of the Selke-caliber defense, and top tier PK impacts.

Ah the old paced for 100 points but never hit 100 points but MT stumbled to his first 100 point season.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

It only makes sense of the Leafs are prepared to walk him into free agency... and they aren't. So no, it doesn't make sense, it's just more smoke and mirrors on trying to get him to sign for less.

Not too mention if the Leafs were offering 9.5, they wouldn't be a million miles apart.

We have to assume there is some budging on the AAV on both sides here. I'm sure the leafs want 8.8 - and i'm sure Willy is at 10.25-10.5 or something like that.

Assume the Leafs get to 9.25 x 8 or 74M over 8 years

He will need 10.57 x 7 to match that in UFA.

And they may be willing to walk him to free agency BECAUSE of this math, assuming they believe he wants to be there. The issue with Gaudreau/others wasn't money, they didn't want to be there. Get over the hump, and financially, it won't make sense for Willy to go elsewhere.

 

[EGL22]

10.9x6, eh? Was Marner paid as a 65 point player or a 90 point player? If Marner scored around 65 points again his final elc year, would he have gotten anywhere CLOSE to 10.9x6? No? So it was the ONE 90 point season that inflated his contract so much?

Dekes for days: "Players aren't paid based on one inflated year." Lol, can't make this stuff up.

Watching this spin is SOOO entertaining. I often get popcorn ready to eat when engaging in conversation with you.

So many times I have seen players signed off 1 year and wondered what were they thinking?

Even worse is the thing I hated about Nylander where we had to pay above market value for what he said he was GOING to do.

At least I see some positive signs where unless it is a cap floor thing GM's seem to be cleaning up their acts rather than getting worse.
Now that I have said that watch them all be idiots next year with that extra money.

 

[Dekes For Days]

10.9x6, eh? Was Marner paid as a 65 point player or a 90 point player?

That 10.9m doesn't represent just some baseline "X point player". That's not how it works.
It represents a player that hit a production level throughout his entire age 19-21 pre-signing period that had him trending as one of the best players in cap era history.

If Marner scored around 65 points again his final elc year, would he have gotten anywhere CLOSE to 10.9x6? No? So it was the ONE 90 point season that inflated his contract so much?

If he scored 65 points in his final year, he obviously would not have made as much, as you're removing one of the best pre-signing seasons in cap era history from the equation, but he still would have gotten a significant contract. Marner's contract was increased by his final year just like Tkachuk's contract was increased by his final year.
I'm not sure why you're trying to pretend like the only two options are look exclusively at the final year and only the final year, or ignore the final year completely.
The final year is PART of the story. It's just not the full story.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Ah the old paced for 100 points but never hit 100 points but MT stumbled to his first 100 point season.

Regardless of what you may think, hitting some shiny arbitrary number or not doesn't make a whole lot of difference. Ignoring what Marner brings, and instead trying to blame him for Covid or resting for the playoffs to benefit the team instead of getting that 1 more point - probably not the best strategy going into negotiations.

 

[Albz]

Tavares makes 7 million his final year with the leafs. After two years, he'd like get 4 or 5 million on the open market. So, following your example over 8 years, Tavares would make more money going 11x7 + 1x4 than if he went 9.6x8.

It's a gamble. Patrick Marleau signed for pretty much the same aav at the age 37 as he had on his previous contract.

Tavares isn't making 4 to 5m after his contact lol. He's already slowing down.... that's like saying toews will grt 4 or 5m next contract lol.

 

[geo25]

Our 87 point soft, floating winger is asking 10.5m while Florida is paying 2x100+ point, best power forward in the league 9.5m. It is no wonder we can't win with this group. They are f***ing embarrassing when it comes to getting their share with the little playoff success they have. Get them the f*** out of here already.

All of them....the Amigos era must end for the team to refocus & develop an identity. The returns on those 3 woild help tremendously...

 

[ACC1224]

LOL. How many times has our 100 point $11m winger, selke finalist hit 100 points? Can't wait for your spin.

Do you not think he has 100 point seasons in him?
I think most would see him as a 100 point player.

 

[geo25]

Ah the old paced for 100 points but never hit 100 points but MT stumbled to his first 100 point season.

Yea, its related to the Expected goals/season developed by galaxy brain Dubas...

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Might be a hot take but I thought it was time to move Marner after the Blue Jackets series; or the Habs series at the latest.