Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[socko]

All of the Leafs core are greedy. The question is who is the greediest. I have my opinion. Others have a different opinion. There is no Pastrnak, MacKinnon, or McDavid that would qualify as not greedy. Don't have one of those.

 

[BLONG7]

Even if Matthews leaves money on the table, doesn't mean Willy will

I think it could signal a culture shift...............wasn't Willy quoted as saying he will, if others do?

Team first, what a concept....

 

[ULF_55]

These guys have fancy accountants who find lots of tax loopholes, it probably doesn't make that big a difference in the end

However, the accountants work from the base, already without doing anything there can be a $1mm difference in take home pay before their accountants get to work.

It isn't like the players in low/no state income tax locations won't have accountants.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Not sure.
There are many factors that go into these things, it's not just this guy is greedy and this guy isn't.

Except when it is.

 

[New Liskeard]

That’s why we also have a leadership problem where our Capt took all he can(that’s his right) and can’t say anything now. Unless he acknowledges the fact that he is overpaid and is hindering the Leafs to get good players to win the Cup. But he will never do that.

It was reported several times Tavares turned down 13 mil per year from San Jose and took less. Point is, Reilly took a haircut on his deal bar none, yet there is no complaining or finger pointing as to what everyone else on the team is doing. For Nylander to incorporate Matthews and Marner in his deal, will do no good for anyone and likely will cause internal issues.

 

[socko]

There is exactly 1 high end player on the Leafs not greedy: Morgan Rielly. That's it. End of the list.

 

[ACC1224]

You're close, but the proper question is why does anyone think any one player is stalling things?

Both Matthews and Nylander are under contract.

Neither has to sign anything, not this week, not this summer, not this season.

They can both go UFA and sign when they want.

Of course that could be true as well.
I find people tend to look for some kind of acrimony between the player and the team when really, at this point, there is no reason to think that any exists.

 

[13pacheco31]

However, the accountants work from the base, already without doing anything there can be a $1mm difference in take home pay before their accountants get to work.

It isn't like the players in low/no state income tax locations won't have accountants.

What part of my statement did I say they don't? "These guys" would be referring to Tkachuk as well. Point being, the accountants are going to maximize their net pay as much as possible, state tax or not, they can probably close the gap when it's all said and done

 

[ACC1224]

These guys have fancy accountants who find lots of tax loopholes, it probably doesn't make that big a difference in the end

Maybe, maybe not.
We do hear all the time though that these 'No Tax' States have a huge advantage. I'm sure that thought would have been corrected by now if it wasn't true.

 

[tuckerintensity]

This is one of those deals where I don't see 9 x 8 as much of a discount. It's a fair deal for him. They're not robbing or insulting him with that type of offer.

I find 10+ absurd as that's a ridiculous ask. He's not even remotely close to that level on any team and it would be an immediate overpayment whether someone else or the Leafs do it.

That certainly wouldn't insulting, they haven't gotten close to offering him 9 a year though (again according to rumours).

It doesn’t need to be a sign and trade. The Leafs trade him to a team before the deadline and that team can sign him to a n eight-year deal anytime before next July 1.

No, it doesn't, I agree. It's only that he doesn't have to weigh 7 years vs. 8 years. He can still get 8 pretty easily.

Assuming he wants 8, we don't actually know that.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Maybe i'm being a homer but it feels like this whole ordeal is being overblown. Toronto is going to dig their heels in at a low number while they can then slowly push to the middle.

Its not that complicated from the team's perspective:

If they offer 9.5M x 8 - he needs 11M x 7 in UFA to beat it (by $1 million in total value, 77 vs 76 million).

If you think he can only get 10.5M x 7 in UFA that is 9.18M x 8 from Toronto to match the total value of the contract.

If you think he can get max 10M x 7 in UFA that is 8.75M x 8

If Willy wants to be in Toronto - its inconceivable that they wouldn't be able to find a compromise at market value to make it work, unless ego's/other factors get involved.

I assume that is why there isn't much of a rush to trade him. This isn't Debrincat/Tkachuk/Gaudreau who simply don't or didn't want to play where they were. Financially, it won't make sense for 88 to go anywhere else, so it simply comes down to if he wants to be in Toronto or not (and by all media reports it seems he does?)

 

[paragon]

Maybe i'm being a homer but it feels like this whole ordeal is being overblown. Toronto is going to dig their heels in at a low number while they can then slowly push to the middle.

Its not that complicated from the team's perspective:

If they offer 9.5M x 8 - he needs 11M x 7 in UFA to beat it (by $1 million in total value, 77 vs 76 million).

If you think he can only get 10.5M x 7 in UFA that is 9.18M x 8 from Toronto to match the total value of the contract.

If you think he can get max 10M x 7 in UFA that is 8.75M x 8

If Willy wants to be in Toronto - its inconceivable that they wouldn't be able to find a compromise at market value to make it work, unless ego's/other factors get involved.

I assume that is why there isn't much of a rush to trade him. This isn't Debrincat/Tkachuk/Gaudreau who simply don't or didn't want to play where they were. Financially, it won't make sense for 88 to go anywhere else, so it simply comes down to if he wants to be in Toronto or not (and by all media reports it seems he does?)

Why are you comparing 7 and 8 year deals? Makes absolutely no sense. For example taking that 9.5 vs 11 means he's going to make 20M less in his career. Not an insignificant number. I think he's worth 10M right now. It makes zero sense for him to sign a contract extension right now when he might get Jeff Cartered. Just wait until next July.

 

[GoLeafsGo96]

Why are you comparing 7 and 8 year deals? Makes absolutely no sense. For example taking that 9.5 vs 11 means he's going to make 20M less in his career. Not an insignificant number. I think he's worth 10M right now. It makes zero sense for him to sign a contract extension right now when he might get Jeff Cartered. Just wait until next July.

Because its his last big contract if he signs a 7 or 8 year deal. If he wants to maximize total income over career he should do what Matthews is going to do and take 3-4 years, that would of course change things.

Comparing 7 v 8 years absolutely makes sense. Take Tavares for example, hes about to finish his 7 year deal in Toronto when he was offered 8 by New York. As a UFA after 7 years Tavares isn't sniffing 11 million, so yes, he can make more, but it won't be that much more and Willy can sign a contract after 8 years too -- the overwhelming majority of players in this spot sign their 7 or 8 year deal to cash in/as their biggest contract, so it does make sense to compare it - since we do for literally every other player in the same spot.

 

[EGL22]

Maybe, maybe not.
We do hear all the time though that these 'No Tax' States have a huge advantage. I'm sure that thought would have been corrected by now if it wasn't true.

I watched some podcast where the guys were talking about possible trade spots.

Nashville came up as a good spot he would like as they had lots of ex Leafs plus his Swedish buddy Forsberg and they have the cap room.

One guy said no way they give him 10m when an equal player and fan fav Forsberg only makes 8.5.

Another then said in Nashville 10 becomes a little over 8.7 to equal take home pay and then there also was a much lower cost of living so taking the equal 8.5 was doable.

I know we can up front a ton of pay plus a couple of other things but this does show how those teams can also use pay things as an advantage.

 

[Racer88]

Even if Matthews leaves money on the table, doesn't mean Willy will

I’m pretty sure this thread will become a moot point because there is a very slim chance any of them leave money on the table.
Even if they do the question becomes how much and will it be a meaningful amount?
Matthews taking 13.2 instead of 14 really won’t help the team in any real way

 

[Racer88]

However, the accountants work from the base, already without doing anything there can be a $1mm difference in take home pay before their accountants get to work.

It isn't like the players in low/no state income tax locations won't have accountants.

If they are in a no income tax state by very definition they don’t need an accountant

 

[BayStBullies]

However, the accountants work from the base, already without doing anything there can be a $1mm difference in take home pay before their accountants get to work.

It isn't like the players in low/no state income tax locations won't have accountants.

Thanks. People need to stop spewing the idiocy that magic accountants only exist in high tax locations.

If they are in a no income tax state by very definition they don’t need an accountant

You should next look at the definition of federal versus state taxes.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Because its his last big contract if he signs a 7 or 8 year deal. If he wants to maximize total income over career he should do what Matthews is going to do and take 3-4 years, that would of course change things.

Comparing 7 v 8 years absolutely makes sense. Take Tavares for example, hes about to finish his 7 year deal in Toronto when he was offered 8 by New York. As a UFA after 7 years Tavares isn't sniffing 11 million, so yes, he can make more, but it won't be that much more and Willy can sign a contract after 8 years too -- the overwhelming majority of players in this spot sign their 7 or 8 year deal to cash in/as their biggest contract, so it does make sense to compare it - since we do for literally every other player in the same spot.

Tavares makes 7 million his final year with the leafs. After two years, he'd like get 4 or 5 million on the open market. So, following your example over 8 years, Tavares would make more money going 11x7 + 1x4 than if he went 9.6x8.

It's a gamble. Patrick Marleau signed for pretty much the same aav at the age 37 as he had on his previous contract.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That is essentially because Leafs system is broken because Leaf players should be getting paid according to market comparables and not out-of-wack Leaf internal overpayment due to past mistakes.
If Nylander was making $7.5 mil and Marner $8.5 mil and there wasn't a ridiculous +$4 mil difference and then Willy would simply be focused on players like Matt Tkachuk and Timo Meier etc to make his case.
Nylander wants his $10 just like 3 of his other teammates have been getting for years and will soon be getting even more.

The Leaf players are being paid according to market comparables.
A 4 mil difference between Marner and Nylander on their current contracts isn't ridiculous. Marner was that much better of a player at time of signing, and even throughout their contracts, Marner has provided that much more value, as a significantly better offensive player and defensive player that also brings top tier PK impacts.
Nylander's initial ask isn't 10 because of his teammates. His initial ask is 10 because that's what somebody of his market value would ask for.
Which means his eventual contract probably lands somewhere in the 9s, so I'm not sure why you're acting like his contract won't be in the range of players like Tkachuk and Meier.

 

[Legion34]

When Matthew Tkachuk signs an 8 year deal at 9.5 after scoring 42 goals (more than Marner or Nylander have ever scored) and 104 points (more than Nylander, Marner, Tavares, and 2 points less than Matthews 1 big season) it just really makes you hate these guys. And of course Tkachuk follows that up with an impressive playoffs, something this group has been incapable of. Keep the phone lines open Tre.

Taxes

 

[WTFMAN99]

I dunno. Rasmussen is appealing. Could be another late bloomer like Tage Thompson. He is big, kinda mean, can skate and does have some skill. Stevie Y would have to package. I may get torched here but what about Willie /Lily for Rasmussen /Seider? Or even better Marner out instead of Willie.

He can be a throw in if they want to give us either of Seider or Raymond otherwise, no thanks.

 

[Dekes For Days]

When Matthew Tkachuk signs an 8 year deal at 9.5 after scoring 42 goals (more than Marner or Nylander have ever scored) and 104 points (more than Nylander, Marner, Tavares, and 2 points less than Matthews 1 big season) it just really makes you hate these guys. And of course Tkachuk follows that up with an impressive playoffs, something this group has been incapable of. Keep the phone lines open Tre.

Tkachuk's contract is pretty good, which makes sense considering he got to hand-pick his favourite tax-free destination contender and needed to sign a quick contract to facilitate his trade request, but you're leaving out the part where he played at a 23 goal, 63 point pace the prior season - which is more similar to what Nylander was doing as a rookie. Players aren't paid based just on one inflated year. And FYI, all of our stars have been massively better playoff performers than Tkachuk had when he signed, since you mentioned it.

 

[rielledup]

I watched some podcast where the guys were talking about possible trade spots.

Nashville came up as a good spot he would like as they had lots of ex Leafs plus his Swedish buddy Forsberg and they have the cap room.

One guy said no way they give him 10m when an equal player and fan fav Forsberg only makes 8.5.

Another then said in Nashville 10 becomes a little over 8.7 to equal take home pay and then there also was a much lower cost of living so taking the equal 8.5 was doable.

I know we can up front a ton of pay plus a couple of other things but this does show how those teams can also use pay things as an advantage.

Is Forsberg an equal player? He's had one huge season two years ago, outside of that he's been like a 55-65 point player.

 

[socko]

And FYI, all of our stars have been massively better playoff performers than Tkachuk had when he signed, since you mentioned it.

Seriously doubt that.

Do you work for Dubas? Your disinformation rate is impressive.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The Leaf players are being paid according to market comparables.
A 4 mil difference between Marner and Nylander on their current contracts isn't ridiculous. Marner was that much better of a player at time of signing, and even throughout their contracts, Marner has provided that much more value, as a significantly better offensive player and defensive player that also brings top tier PK impacts.
Nylander's initial ask isn't 10 because of his teammates. His initial ask is 10 because that's what somebody of his market value would ask for.
Which means his eventual contract probably lands somewhere in the 9s, so I'm not sure why you're acting like his contract won't be in the range of players like Tkachuk and Meier.

Yay. We MIGHT be able to sign Nylander for similar money as Florida paid a 100 point player.

What a steal.