Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Tufted Titmouse]

Willy is still the best chance to get best bang for the buck of the big four.
The difference in toi is significant enough.
He’s most capable of the four to create his own chance.
Moving him is a risky proposition.
The next 48 hours are gonna rock.
Also, I don’t get this ‘time is in their side argument’. FA starts in 24 hours or so.

Disagree strongly.

 

[Trapper]

After 7 years, if Nylander is our best chance to win in the playoffs, fold the team.

 

[ToneDog]

They can drive a line, but there’s no players to drive.

If you replaced Matthews Marner and Nylander with McDavid, Draisauto, and RNH and moved them to AZ, no one would predict them to win a Cup. The D would still be slow and terrible, the bottom 6 would be blah.
The PP would improve.

The difference is McDrai scare opponents. AustonMarner scare nobody in the playoffs. Yeah but McDrai did not score in the last 4 games vs Vegas, blah, blah blah. I'd take McDrai over AustonMarner every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Anybody that would not is full of shit. Pure and simple.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

I wouldn't take what he said literally but he makes a valid point.

Nylander is a much better player now then he was a few years ago and over the last three years, he's put up PPG in the playoffs. He's managed to do that with less ice time than M&M, and without M or M as a linemate. Hell these last playoffs, Keefe in his infinite wisdom (bwahahahahahahaaaa) even took him off PP1 yet he kept on producing. My eye test also tells me that there were a number of games where we badly needed a goal, M&M looked like they were MIA and Nylander was the only one who hadn't given up and he was still buzzing out there creating chances.

In the playoffs over these last 3 seasons, Nylander has not been outplayed by M&M in the playoffs, in fact you could argue he's been the best out of the three of them so when you factor in cap hit, he's been by far the best playoff asset out of the three. If you have to move on from a core piece and you want to win in the playoffs, Nylander's not the guy you move.

Right on. Thanks for taking the time to type out what should be obvious to people actually watching the games. It’s tiring having to argue against posts that just throw up some. numbers with no context

 

[DarkKnight]

Past 2 playoffs:

Nylander: 18gp, 7g, 17pts

Marner: 18gp, 5g, 22pts

Matthews 18gp, 9g, 20pts

Tavares: 18gp, 7g, 14pts


??????

Against lesser competition and advantageous zone starts too. Put that ingredient in your stew.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

I wouldn't take what he said literally but he makes a valid point.

Nylander is a much better player now then he was a few years ago and over the last three years, he's put up PPG in the playoffs. He's managed to do that with less ice time than M&M, and without M or M as a linemate. Hell these last playoffs, Keefe in his infinite wisdom (bwahahahahahahaaaa) even took him off PP1 yet he kept on producing. My eye test also tells me that there were a number of games where we badly needed a goal, M&M looked like they were MIA and Nylander was the only one who hadn't given up and he was still buzzing out there creating chances.

In the playoffs over these last 3 seasons, Nylander has not been outplayed by M&M in the playoffs, in fact you could argue he's been the best out of the three of them so when you factor in cap hit, he's been by far the best playoff asset out of the three. If you have to move on from a core piece and you want to win in the playoffs, Nylander's not the guy you move.

He's been the best if you factor in cap hit?

Why on earth would you factor in cap hit, considering the discussion is based on whether he's worth 10m or not?

I actually prefer Willy at 8.88-9 over Mitch at 11 or more, but if Willy is getting 9.5-10+, I am moving him.

 

[ULF_55]

How many of those goals and points were in the 2nd round?

By memory:

Nylander 2 goals
Tavares, Matthews and marner 1 goal



Of course we're just messing around marner got over his stage fright in the second round, Nylander doesn't get stage fright and Tavares and Matthews are still trying to figure it out.

But of course, "Matthews was playing injured." AGAIN.

 

[ToneDog]

Carolina has plenty of cap space and trade assets to acquire Willie. Work out a deal.

I'd include Philly but Torts probably vetoes it.

 

[ULF_55]

He's been the best if you factor in cap hit?

Why on earth would you factor in cap hit, considering the discussion is based on whether he's worth 10m or not?

I actually prefer Willy at 8.88-9 over Mitch at 11 or more, but if Willy is getting 9.5-10+, I am moving him.

What if marner is getting $13mm his next ask?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

Right on. Thanks for taking the time to type out what should be obvious to people actually watching the games. It’s tiring having to argue against posts that just throw up some. numbers with no context

Believe it or not, goals and assists lead to success.

It really does seem like you are unhappy with every single decision the Leafs have or could make.

what's a fair number for you for Willy?

What if marner is getting $13mm his next ask?

Move him too. I have no loyalty to individual players.

 

[Arzak]

Marner should be good enough to drive his own line. Leafs paid him like that. Matthews and Marner should be running their own line. If Marner needs a center to play with we got problems.

I don't get it, I thought he makes every player around him better...

At least that's the narrative Marner loyal are pushing, despite ZERO evidence to support this silly claim.

 

[justashadowof]

Well we don’t influence anything, I hope.

Maybe the slightest amount of influence comes from fan sentiment but otherwise MLSE believes correctly that they can manage fan sentiment through their strangle hold on conventional media. I believe this "scare story" by Friedman is about managing the shock of Nylander getting moved or the size of the contract he eventually signs to stay. These things are just easier to digest if the "shock" is previewed first.

 

[Warden of the North]

I think Brian Hayes said it best on Overdrive a few days ago when he concluded that MLSE thinks the regular season wins and selling jerseys is more important than winning in the playoffs. Why else would they be so "meh" about every failure in the playoffs and not change a thing? If they run back everyone and still fail again ...he will have been correct in his assumption.

Of course the problem with this logic is that winning in the playoffs is pure profit. They don't pay salary to players or coaches at that point.

If all they want to do is make money and sell jersey, the longer they play in any given year the more they make. They play 82 games in the regular season no matter how good or bad they are.

 

[ACC1224]

No, but based on how Marner’s first negotiation played out, starting with his agent negotiating through the media and proactively looking for any kind of offer sheet, do you really feel confident anything different will happen here?

When you see a hurricane in the forecast, do you expect it to go right down the middle of your house and you board up and bunker up, or do you hide in the basement and just hope it misses you?

I know what I’d be doing, and I wish I shared your optimism.

I think Marner is a good kid, but his agent and his dad are shady AF.

How long will you hold the sins of the father against the son?

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

@BrannigansLaw
@ULF_55

What's the number you are comfortable with for Willy?

Easy to snipe at other people's takes - put some skin in the game.

 

[ToneDog]

He's been the best if you factor in cap hit?

Why on earth would you factor in cap hit, considering the discussion is based on whether he's worth 10m or not?

I actually prefer Willy at 8.88-9 over Mitch at 11 or more, but if Willy is getting 9.5-10+, I am moving him.

This. The fact that we can't go down the same rat hole with these guys if further evidence that they should have cut bait from them. If it is all about the money 2.0, get them the f*** out of here already. They are f***ing greedy, ungrateful losers and they should not be the face of the team.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Believe it or not, goals and assists lead to success.

It really does seem like you are unhappy with every single decision the Leafs have or could make.

what's a fair number for you for Willy?



Move him too. I have no loyalty to individual players.

Lately? Yes, I’m not a fan of what we have been doing. What’s so great about what we’ve done that I should be so happy about? We have a dysfunctional front office and a team with basically no direction right now.

Timo Meier contract is fair.

 

[LeafSteel]

How long will you hold the sins of the father against the son?

Until the new wife kicks both their asses and tells them what to do: shut up and sign an 8 year fair value deal in Toronto…….

 

[DarkKnight]

At least that's the narrative Marner loyal are pushing, despite ZERO evidence to support this silly claim.

Man that’s silly, zero evidence lol. Farcical. Ya, we get playoffs, but come the eff on guy.

 

[justashadowof]

I wouldn't take what he said literally but he makes a valid point.

Nylander is a much better player now then he was a few years ago and over the last three years, he's put up PPG in the playoffs. He's managed to do that with less ice time than M&M, and without M or M as a linemate. Hell these last playoffs, Keefe in his infinite wisdom (bwahahahahahahaaaa) even took him off PP1 yet he kept on producing. My eye test also tells me that there were a number of games where we badly needed a goal, M&M looked like they were MIA and Nylander was the only one who hadn't given up and he was still buzzing out there creating chances.

In the playoffs over these last 3 seasons, Nylander has not been outplayed by M&M in the playoffs, in fact you could argue he's been the best out of the three of them so when you factor in cap hit, he's been by far the best playoff asset out of the three. If you have to move on from a core piece and you want to win in the playoffs, Nylander's not the guy you move.

Auston Matthews has easily been the best of those players in recent playoffs. He elevates his physical game and takes more hard contact than he does in the regular season. It's just that his shooting was off most of the entire 2022-23 season and that carried into the playoffs. I believe he can be much better but he's still the best of that lot by a large margin in my opinion.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

I am really not sure what Marner has to do with the Nylander negotiations. If Nylander is asking for 11 million a year....trade him. We literally can't talk contract with Marner right now. If next year Marner has a ridiculous ask....trade him. We aren't at that point with him yet though.

 

[The Management]

He's an enigmatic guy. Probably one of our best players in terms of carrying the puck over the blue line, but occasionally stops moving his feet and checks out defensively.

An asset and a net positive on a team friendly deal, but if he's looking for a big payday, that's a tough fit on a team that may be strapped for cap and looking for a bit of a different look.

Really hard for me to see a trade where we move him and get better, but maybe I've just become too risk averse and uncreative in my middle age. Just hope we don't move him for a middle-of-the-pack defenseman and some other random pieces.

 

[ULF_55]

I think 8*8.8 is a fair contract.

The issue is he plays on a team that has overpaid 2 of his teammates, and will continue to overpay his teammates.

No way is Matthews the best player in the league, in the playoffs he plays with marner and is just slightly ahead of Nylander in production.

Regular season doesn't mean anything to many many people here, if you've said it you've said it.

Be consistent, don't be that person ...

The Leafs should move on from Nylander and vice versa, as there are two favorites for the returning coach and it is obvious one of them is not Nylander.

marner and Matthews run the team, to the point the coach can't even discipline them without apologizing in the media.

The best bet is really to trade Nylander for a couple middle 6 players who are fine being 2nd. class in the hierarchy.

 

[Rude Dog]

You don't know what greed is, getting market value isn't greed.

Expecting above market value is though.

 

[ToneDog]

@BrannigansLaw
@ULF_55

What's the number you are comfortable with for Willy?

Easy to snipe at other people's takes - put some skin in the game.

For me it is the Meier deal or move him.