Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Gary Nylund]

Hockey is prerty weird at time

Last 3 year, the only series they deserve to lost... they won it.

2 of 4 they was clearly the better team and they lost it

And the 4th one was a pretty even series

I get why people would say we deserved to bet MTL, I'm not one of them though. What I remember most from that series, is the way we didn't even compete in game 7 and if it comes down to a game 7 and you go down without even putting up a fight, you don't deserve anything. JMHO.

 

[DuklaNation]

I assume you're talking about Dubas. What contingencies could there possibly be for M&M not playing up their potential in the playoffs other than trading them?

Was he aware of the fact having 50% of your cap tied up in 4 finesse players would be a problem in playoffs? Lets tackle that first. Because it comes 1st in the order of events before any subsequent plans would be made.

The answer is a firm NO.

 

[egd27]

You think “a star-free group of tireless workhorse pests that frequent the blue paint and love to get dirty in the corners.” Would make the playoffs?

No stars at all. No 1C, no 1D… just a nice collection of 3rd and 4th liners working hard?

No kidding, it would be similar to being an expansion team like the 17-18 Golden Knights........oh wait

 

[al secord]

At this point, I would honestly take it over these Prima Donnas.

Your end goal as a fan is cheering on a mediocre team of try hards competing for participant ribbons?

 

[Fogelhund]

MacKinnon wasn't paid to be the guy that carried his team on his shoulders. If Matthews and Marner were only paid 6.5 mil each, nobody would be questioning their playoff numbers or cap allocation team design.

No MacKinnon wasn't very good his first years though. 8.63% of the cap, after his prior two seasons of 38 and 52 points. You want to talk about overpayment? Nylander had two years in a row at 61 points before receiving the same cap hit. MacKinnon's 2nd, 3rd and 4th years in the league were 38, 52 and 53 points... for a first overall, looking a bit like a bust. But they were patient with him, and it paid off.

If Matthews and Marner had 53 points after their fourth year with us, the whole fan base would have called them busts, and been pissed off.

I guess the biggest problem, is our players became stars right away, and got paid for it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Cause if you watched Avs in the playoffs summer before the trade you’d realize he was basically on their third pair with the rookie makar and Johnson on the right side

Uh, what? No he wasn't. He was their top-scoring defenseman, and he averaged the most ice time (24:11) and even strength ice time on the team (19:28) by quite a bit. He was one of the best players overall on the team that playoffs. Also, he played primarily with Zadorov, not Makar/Johnson.

 

[Fogelhund]

No kidding, it would be similar to being an expansion team like the 17-18 Golden Knights........oh wait

Who ultimately won nothing, and is that 0.1% example.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Was he aware of the fact having 50% of your cap tied up in 4 finesse players would be a problem in playoffs? Lets tackle that first. Because it comes 1st in the order of events before any subsequent plans would be made.

The answer is a firm NO.

Not sure I'd label Matthews or JT as "finesse" players.

If our stars were as effective in the playoffs as they were in the regular season, we might have won a cup by now. I asked if Dubas should have been able to know this would happen, what do you think about that?

Had the cap gone up the way everyone expected it to, these 4 players would be taking up a much smaller percentage of the cap. Covid arguably hurt us more than any other team because of the timing of when we had to sign our stars, should Dubas have anticipated covid and if so, what should he have done differently?

 

[egd27]

You think “a star-free group of tireless workhorse pests that frequent the blue paint and love to get dirty in the corners.” Would make the playoffs?

No stars at all. No 1C, no 1D… just a nice collection of 3rd and 4th liners working hard?

No kidding, it would be similar to being an expansion team like the 17-18 Golden Knights........oh wait

Who ultimately won nothing, and is that 0.1% example.

Oh so now we're only talking about winning the Cup rather than just making the playoffs which you originally posted. Got it.

 

[DuklaNation]

If they trade Nylander for a dman + 3rd C, then they should go after Wahlstrom on Islanders, just re-upped on a crappy 1 year deal. Untapped potential and might be cheap, I don't think the coaching staff likes him at all.

 

[thusk]

I get why people would say we deserved to bet MTL, I'm not one of them though. What I remember most from that series, is the way we didn't even compete in game 7 and if it comes down to a game 7 and you go down without even putting up a fight, you don't deserve anything. JMHO.

Didn't come to comperlte... they gave up a total of 14 scoring chance... 3 HDS and habs scored twice on those 3 chance... gallgher shot was 1 of 3 most difficult campbell faced... for a team with all the pressure of the world on their shoulder. They played a better defensive game than what they did gm 4 vs florida whobwas almost a perfect one...

Just ask to oreilly how high the pressure is in Toronto, thats why he prefer to sign with nashville than stay in toronto... not because something wrong in the team but because the pressure are just too high in Toronto... we talked about a guy who played under high pressure, won conne smythe and stanley cup...

 

[DuklaNation]

Not sure I'd label Matthews or JT as "finesse" players.

If our stars were as effective in the playoffs as they were in the regular season, we might have won a cup by now. I asked if Dubas should have been able to know this would happen, what do you think about that?

Had the cap gone up the way everyone expected it to, these 4 players would be taking up a much smaller percentage of the cap. Covid arguably hurt us more than any other team because of the timing of when we had to sign our stars, should Dubas have anticipated covid and if so, what should he have done differently?

They're finesse players, that's the truth. Denying it just leads to the results they've gotten. Predictable 3+ years ago and Dubas had zero contingency. Why? He didn't see it as a problem because he was inexperienced GM, and more importantly just inexperienced in hockey in general.

 

[arso40]

Uh, what? No he wasn't. He was their top-scoring defenseman, and he averaged the most ice time (24:11) and even strength ice time on the team (19:28) by quite a bit. He was one of the best players overall on the team that playoffs. Also, he played primarily with Zadorov, not Makar/Johnson.

I’m stretching it but you could tell he was getting replaced by the kid so I wasn’t surprised when they traded him

 

[Fogelhund]

No kidding, it would be similar to being an expansion team like the 17-18 Golden Knights........oh wait



Oh so now we're only talking about winning the Cup rather than just making the playoffs which you originally posted. Got it.

The point which you missed, is that is an unusual exception to the rule. To boot, that team had MaF, Fleury, Karlsson and Marchessault.. so they hardly were devoid of star type players.

I get why people would say we deserved to bet MTL, I'm not one of them though. What I remember most from that series, is the way we didn't even compete in game 7 and if it comes down to a game 7 and you go down without even putting up a fight, you don't deserve anything. JMHO.

What I remember most was our top two C's were injured.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Didn't come to comperlte... they gave up a total of 14 scoring chance... 3 HDS and habs scored twice on those 3 chance... gallgher shot was 1 of 3 most difficult campbell faced... for a team with all the pressure of the world on their shoulder. They played a better defensive game than what they did gm 4 vs florida whobwas almost a perfect one...

Just ask to oreilly how high the pressure is in Toronto, thats why he prefer to sign with nashville than stay in toronto... not because something wrong in the team but because the pressure are just too high in Toronto... we talked about a guy who played under high pressure, won conne smythe and stanley cup...

They played like crap in game 7, I doubt anyone who watched that game would disagree. They loafed around the ice like a bunch of unmotivated, drowsy turtles.

Who cares about game 4 against Florida, the series was over? What about game 3 when it was far from over, win that game and it's 2-1 and it's a competitive series, how did we play in that one? I'll go first - we we so bad, it was embarrassing. Maybe you have some fancy stats showing otherwise but you're not fooling me.

They're finesse players, that's the truth. Denying it just leads to the results they've gotten. Predictable 3+ years ago and Dubas had zero contingency. Why? He didn't see it as a problem because he was inexperienced GM, and more importantly just inexperienced in hockey in general.

Denying whatever doesn't lead to anything, what are you talking about? We're just talking on the sidelines, I'm pretty sure whatever we think has no effect on the team, do you really believe otherwise?

What was predictable 3 years ago? What contingency should Dubas have had?

What I remember most was our top two C's were injured.

What I remember most besides game 7, was that we were massive favorites to win.

 

[DuklaNation]

They played like crap in game 7, I doubt anyone who watched that game would disagree. They loafed around the ice like a bunch of unmotivated, drowsy turtles.

Who cares about game 4 against Florida, the series was over? What about game 3 when it was far from over, win that game and it's 2-1 and it's a competitive series, how did we play in that one? I'll go first - we we so bad, it was embarrassing. Maybe you have some fancy stats showing otherwise but you're not fooling me.


Denying whatever doesn't lead to anything, what are you talking about? We're just talking on the sidelines, I'm pretty sure whatever we think has no effect on the team, do you really believe otherwise?

What was predictable 3 years ago? What contingency should Dubas have had?


What I remember most besides game 7, was that we were massive favorites to win.

What was predictable was that tying 50% of your cap to a group likely to fail in playoff hockey was a mistake, At minimum, Nylander should have been traded for a more physical offensive winger to compensate.

Anyone who didn't see that, I question what they're actually watching.

 

[Gary Nylund]

What was predictable was that tying 50% of your cap to a group likely to fail in playoff hockey was a mistake, At minimum, Nylander should have been traded for a more physical offensive winger to compensate.

Anyone who didn't see that, I question what they're actually watching.

LOL. If you think we'd have had more playoff success had we traded Nylander 3 years ago, I question what you're actually watching.

 

[DuklaNation]

LOL. If you think we'd have had more playoff success had we traded Nylander 3 years ago, I question what you're actually watching.

The results speak for themselves. You can't win with scorers who don't get in the dirty areas of the ice.

 

[AvroArrow]

LOL. If you think we'd have had more playoff success had we traded Nylander 3 years ago, I question what you're actually watching.

Depends entirely on what the return is. Not like we're trading him away for free or some trash player. What if he was traded 3 years ago for one of the Tkachuks ? Or a strong D-man, or an elite goalie ? Price won the Montreal series pretty much on his own.

 

[thusk]

They played like crap in game 7, I doubt anyone who watched that game would disagree. They loafed around the ice like a bunch of unmotivated, drowsy turtles.

Who cares about game 4 against Florida, the series was over? What about game 3 when it was far from over, win that game and it's 2-1 and it's a competitive series, how did we play in that one? I'll go first - we we so bad, it was embarrassing. Maybe you have some fancy stats showing otherwise but you're not fooling me.


Denying whatever doesn't lead to anything, what are you talking about? We're just talking on the sidelines, I'm pretty sure whatever we think has no effect on the team, do you really believe otherwise?

What was predictable 3 years ago? What contingency should Dubas have had?

If you watching offensively, yes but it was a perfect defensive game... kind of game tampa won again and again on game 7

For a team who had all the pressure of the town, of the country, all the pressure of past failure under their shoulder... sorry if you take in consideration everything... it was a good game... the biggest problem was not gm 7 but gm 5 and 6

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No MacKinnon wasn't very good his first years though. 8.63% of the cap, after his prior two seasons of 38 and 52 points. You want to talk about overpayment? Nylander had two years in a row at 61 points before receiving the same cap hit. MacKinnon's 2nd, 3rd and 4th years in the league were 38, 52 and 53 points... for a first overall, looking a bit like a bust. But they were patient with him, and it paid off.

If Matthews and Marner had 53 points after their fourth year with us, the whole fan base would have called them busts, and been pissed off.

I guess the biggest problem, is our players became stars right away, and got paid for it.

It doesn't matter why MacKinnon was paid so little. That's entirely beside the point of the discussion.

We were talking about playoff performances in relation to what their cap hit is.

His first 2 playoffs he had 16 points in 13 games. All at an elc contract then 6.3 mil cap hit (and if we're going to compare with Nylander for some reason, that's with NO front loading, NO money in signing bonuses, and two extra ufa years.)

The point is that none of us would mind NEARLY as much if Matthews and Marner made 6 mil while trying to "find their gear" as you put it. You pay 11 mil to players that have already found their gear. You pay 6 mil to those searching for it.

 

[Fogelhund]

It doesn't matter why MacKinnon was paid so little. That's entirely beside the point of the discussion.

We were talking about playoff performances in relation to what their cap hit is.

His first 2 playoffs he had 16 points in 13 games. All at an elc contract then 6.3 mil cap hit (and if we're going to compare with Nylander for some reason, that's with NO front loading, NO money in signing bonuses, and two extra ufa years.)

The point is that none of us would mind NEARLY as much if Matthews and Marner made 6 mil while trying to "find their gear" as you put it. You pay 11 mil to players that have already found their gear. You pay 6 mil to those searching for it.

All this talk is absolute nonsense...

I'm sure you know it's nonsense too, and are just arguing for the sake of it. It's absolutely critical why MacKinnon was paid so little... he wasn't good. I mean it's hard to take someone seriously with such a transparent attempt to misguide... unless you actually believe this, and then just LOL. Zero credibility if you actually believe this.

Mack put up an average of 45 points his two years before signing for $6.3 milion. Marner 82 points the prior two years. If you think that they should be paid the same... I mean that's clown territory logic.

 

[Community]

Yes, Rielly had a terrific playoffand stepped up. But he still needs a top pairing partner.

Marner‘s inability to shoot neuters Keefe’s PP in the playoffs. With a good PP coach they could easily remedy that, but they haven’t.

So we could use a #2D? More understandable, but I still think we should be set if the pairings work alright.

Rielly - McCabe/Brodie
Brodie/McCabe - Klingberg
Gio - Liljegren
Timmins

If we add a #2D I'd argue we have one of the best d-corps in the league. Right now it's a good group with the only question being if our #2 is good enough. Having McCabe, Brodie, or Klingberg on the 3rd pairing would be pretty crazy.

Marner scored 30 and 35 goals (25th in the league) over the past 2 years. You're severely underestimating his shot just because he's a much better playmaker.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

All this talk is absolute nonsense...

I'm sure you know it's nonsense too, and are just arguing for the sake of it. It's absolutely critical why MacKinnon was paid so little... he wasn't good. I mean it's hard to take someone seriously with such a transparent attempt to misguide... unless you actually believe this, and then just LOL. Zero credibility if you actually believe this.

MacKinnon is just such a weird player to bring up. The criticism was half the cap on 4 forwards for players who underperform in the playoffs and you replied by bringing up a guy making peanuts who overperformed his contract throughout his entire playoff career. WHY he was paid so little is completely meaningless to the conversation.

 

[Fogelhund]

MacKinnon is just such a weird player to bring up. The criticism was half the cap on 4 forwards for players who underperform in the playoffs and you replied by bringing up a guy making peanuts who overperformed his contract throughout his entire playoff career. WHY he was paid so little is completely meaningless to the conversation.

I'm sorry that the conversation is too difficult for you to follow or understand.