Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Fogelhund]

At this point, I would honestly take it over these Prima Donnas.

No rational fan would choose a 35 win season repeated, over a 50 win seasons, plus 4-8 post season wins. More winning is always preferable, even if the target isn’t met.

 

[Notsince67]

What could the guys do that we gave up in that trade? I'll answer myself - not much.

Sometimes a farmer shits in a field and what is left isn't fertilized food. It's just a turd in the field.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

No rational fan would choose a 35 win season repeated, over a 50 win seasons, plus 4-8 post season wins. More winning is always preferable, even if the target isn’t met.

This group is an annual embarrassment; 50 wins or not.

I guess you’re irrational if you don’t like watching choke job after choke job

 

[Nineteen67]

You think “a star-free group of tireless workhorse pests that frequent the blue paint and love to get dirty in the corners.” Would make the playoffs?

No stars at all. No 1C, no 1D… just a nice collection of 3rd and 4th liners working hard?

They don’t have a 1D now.

 

[Nineteen67]

It's called moving the goalposts and it was entirely predictable. If we had managed to beat the Panthers and then lost to Carolina the experts would have said "beat a team that barely made it into the PO only to lose to a real team like the Hurricanes." And had we beat the Hurricanes and then lost to the GK, there would have been a snappy dismissal of Carolina as well. And so on and so on

Trolls
Malcontents
and boring contrarians

The goalpost are being moved now and history is being re-written. During the games people were posting about how slow they were, especially the D, and how poorly they were playing against TB. That reality hasn’t changed.

I’m not surprised, Leafs fans do it every summer. Two months prior they had these enormous holes that prevented them from winning, dont ever fix them, but are always Cup favourites in August.

 

[Fogelhund]

This group is an annual embarrassment; 50 wins or not.

I guess you’re irrational if you don’t like watching choke job after choke job

Nobody likes having not won the Cup.

But if your preference is watching perennial losers, maybe the Arizona Coyotes are more your style? How about the Sabres, who haven't made the playoffs in 12 seasons? I mean why suffer through the 3rd best regular season team over the last seven years, when you could enjoy watching something truly dire.

Better to have no success at all, than choke amirite?

It's actually kind of sad that people can't appreciate how good this team actually is, even if their playoff failures are an embarrassment. They've made themselves so miserable, that they cannot enjoy any success, just focus on failure. The level of miserable people on here, is actually amusing.

They don’t have a 1D now.

 

[All Mod Cons]

You think “a star-free group of tireless workhorse pests that frequent the blue paint and love to get dirty in the corners.” Would make the playoffs?

No stars at all. No 1C, no 1D… just a nice collection of 3rd and 4th liners working hs quite possible you both have a different definition of "star players".

I presume (maybe wrongly), he is thinking more Kraken, Golden Knights type thing.

Probably a bit like when people say toughness, they don't mean goons. (Honestly never understood why that one had to be constantly explained every single thread).

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Nobody likes having not won the Cup.

But if your preference is watching perennial losers, maybe the Arizona Coyotes are more your style? How about the Sabres, who haven't made the playoffs in 12 seasons? I mean why suffer through the 3rd best regular season team over the last seven years, when you could enjoy watching something truly dire.

Better to have no success at all, than choke amirite?

It's actually kind of sad that people can't appreciate how good this team actually is, even if their playoff failures are an embarrassment. They've made themselves so miserable, that they cannot enjoy any success, just focus on failure. The level of miserable people on here, is actually amusing.

What is it with you and a couple other posters on here constantly accusing people that disagree with you as miserable or in some way having some mental issue surrounding this team?

Stick to talking about hockey.

 

[Fogelhund]

I presume (maybe wrongly), he is thinking more Kraken, Golden Knights type thing.

Probably a bit like when people say toughness, they don't mean goons. (Honestly never understood why that one had to be constantly explained every single thread).

They literally said no stars. That most certainly doesn't describe the Golden Knights. It doesn't need to be explained, one just needs to read the parameters, in order to understand the conversation.

a star-free group of tireless workhorse pests

 

[Community]

Why would you automatically assume they’d miss the playoffs?

Mitch Marner still cannot shoot at an NHL level, but he doesn’t have the work ethic to change it. Is that better, considering it kills their chances on the PP in the the playoffs?

What's funny is that Marner would be the leading goalscorer on ~25% of teams and within a handful of goals of the goalscoring leader on another ~25% of the teams in the league.

It's pretty asinine to think he doesn't have an "nhl level shot".

They don’t have a 1D now.

As I've defended all last year and was EASILY proven during the playoffs, Morgan Rielly is clearly a #1D.

His last regular season wasn't his best, but he is always our best defender during the playoffs and in the conversation for team MVP. I'd say he was a top 5 dman in the playoffs, but there's no logical argument that he wasn't a #1Dman.

 

[Fogelhund]

What is it with you and a couple other posters on here constantly accusing people that disagree with you as miserable or in some way having some mental issue surrounding this team?

Stick to talking about hockey.

You don't think that people who constantly complain, and are always mad, aren't miserable? If you've read this forum on a regular basis, it's clear that this team has made many miserable and angry. Do you also try and police those "miserable" people, who also label those who are positive? Anyway, you've further sent the thread off topic, kind of ironic.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We didn’t barely beat Tampa, beat them in 6 games. More than a few hard fought come from behind victories. That takes character and heart. I don’t get why people have to try and diminish that series win. It was a hell of a win. They played hard, understood that Vasi is one of the worst goalies in the league when screened and used that to their advantage.

I’m not sure any of the leafs teams in the past 7 years are coming back to win games in OT against Tampa. That was a huge sign of growth.

If beating TB in 6 shows character and heart, what does losing in 5 to Florida show? Our futures are depleted and considering how much we spent at the TDL, the organization as a whole is weaker. If you think be took a big step forward, we see things differently because from where I sit, we're further away from the cup than we were a year ago.

 

[mydnyte]

Hitting is overated . Some players hit, some dont. A successfull pokecheck can get you free with no loss of speed. Even a successfull hit almost always slow the game down. If u suck at it , it will always slow u down. Skating and hitting like crazy might look impressive, but it might not be the smartest way to win a game. If u are good att avoiding hits (and then be less tierd) and find open ice , and protect the puck , then that is great skills to have.

Reversed hits on the other hand... those i like. openice hipchecks to. I like ordinary hits to. But i still think they are a overrated part of the game.

reverse hits should be banned outright and an instant penalty.
you just cannot hit someone who has never touched the puck.
expecting that player to hit you, is not a reason for you to hit them first. ...that's the equivalent of a blind-side hit

 

[Pengu]

I could see this going all the way to June next summer as Willy and Matthews wait for the other to sign first. Trev is desperate for Willy to sign first or he's gone after he sees Matthews number...

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sometimes a farmer shits in a field and what is left isn't fertilized food. It's just a turd in the field.

If you think the players we gave up for Phaneuf were turds, I guess it couldn't have been a bad trade for us.

 

[Nineteen67]

What's funny is that Marner would be the leading goalscorer on ~25% of teams and within a handful of goals of the goalscoring leader on another ~25% of the teams in the league.

It's pretty asinine to think he doesn't have an "nhl level shot".


As I've defended all last year and was EASILY proven during the playoffs, Morgan Rielly is clearly a #1D.

His last regular season wasn't his best, but he is always our best defender during the playoffs and in the conversation for team MVP. I'd say he was a top 5 dman in the playoffs, but there's no logical argument that he wasn't a #1Dman.

Yes, Rielly had a terrific playoffand stepped up. But he still needs a top pairing partner.

Marner‘s inability to shoot neuters Keefe’s PP in the playoffs. With a good PP coach they could easily remedy that, but they haven’t.

 

[thusk]

If beating TB in 6 shows character and heart, what does losing in 5 to Florida show? Our futures are depleted and considering how much we spent at the TDL, the organization as a whole is weaker. If you think be took a big step forward, we see things differently because from where I sit, we're further away from the cup than we were a year ago.

Hockey is prerty weird at time

Last 3 year, the only series they deserve to lost... they won it.

2 of 4 they was clearly the better team and they lost it

And the 4th one was a pretty even series

 

[ZEBROA]

reverse hits should be banned outright and an instant penalty.
you just cannot hit someone who has never touched the puck.
expecting that player to hit you, is not a reason for you to hit them first. ...that's the equivalent of a blind-side hit

Ever seen P Forsberg play? A revesed hit aint blind-sided , it might be a surprise, but not blind siding. A perfect revesed hit is you hitting the player first that is about to hit you. Or that are batteling you for the puck that you got. It is not skating around hitting players who aint engaged in getting the puck.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It's called moving the goalposts and it was entirely predictable. If we had managed to beat the Panthers and then lost to Carolina the experts would have said "beat a team that barely made it into the PO only to lose to a real team like the Hurricanes." And had we beat the Hurricanes and then lost to the GK, there would have been a snappy dismissal of Carolina as well. And so on and so on

Trolls
Malcontents
and boring contrarians

Nobody cared at the time as we were all so thrilled to actually win a series, but the truth is Vasilevskiy had a gong show of a series. I don't know if he was playing through an injury or what the hell happened, but he looked like he was fighting the puck all series. He had a .875 save percentage against a playoff career average of .921%. He was atrocious.

But it didn't matter. It was about god damned time the leafs had a break like that in the first round.

But round 2 changed everything. If it was a hard fight loss where everyone gave it their all, the 2023 playoffs would have been seen by everybody here as a net positive for the leafs. Monkey is off their back and they showed us that this core can actually do it.

But instead we watched the core 4 not even show up. It almost looked like they intentionally threw the round. Almost as though they said "Well, we won a round and shut the critics up. But damn... we're usually on vacation by now. The hell with this."

We're back to the very very real problem that the unprecedented team design of half the cap on 4 forwards isn't sustainable in the playoffs. It creates great regular season pond hockey teams that get boxed out in the playoffs without the depth to make up for it.

It seems pretty strange to call people "trolls" and "malcontents" for being critical of something NO other gm has ever even thought about doing. Our team design is a crazy outliner. Those defending it are the crazy ones. Those criticizing it have every other gm in the history of the cap era on our side.

 

[mydnyte]

Ever seen P Forsberg play? A revesed hit aint blind-sided , it might be a surprise, but not blind siding. A perfect revesed hit is you hitting the player first that is about to hit you. Or that are batteling you for the puck that you got. It is not skating around hitting players who aint engaged in getting the puck.

i said 'the equivalent of' a player who does not have the puck, and has not handled the puck, has no expectation of being hit.
body checking is allowed in an attempt to gain possession of the puck "A body check can be defined as body contact primarily caused by the movement of the checker. The checker uses their body for the purpose of stopping the attacking progress of the puck carrier and/or to separate the carrier from the puck."
if you do not have the puck, you are not a 'carrier' and not a legal target to be hit.

 

[leafsfan5]

Nobody cared at the time as we were all so thrilled to actually win a series, but the truth is Vasilevskiy had a gong show of a series. I don't know if he was playing through an injury or what the hell happened, but he looked like he was fighting the puck all series. He had a .875 save percentage against a playoff career average of .921%. He was atrocious.

But it didn't matter. It was about god damned time the leafs had a break like that in the first round.

But round 2 changed everything. If it was a hard fight loss where everyone gave it their all, the 2023 playoffs would have been seen by everybody here as a net positive for the leafs. Monkey is off their back and they showed us that this core can actually do it.

But instead we watched the core 4 not even show up. It almost looked like they intentionally threw the round. Almost as though they said "Well, we won a round and shut the critics up. But damn... we're usually on vacation by now. The hell with this."

We're back to the very very real problem that the unprecedented team design of half the cap on 4 forwards isn't sustainable in the playoffs. It creates great regular season pond hockey teams that get boxed out in the playoffs without the depth to make up for it.

It seems pretty strange to call people "trolls" and "malcontents" for being critical of something NO other gm has ever even thought about doing. Our team design is a crazy outliner. Those defending it are the crazy ones. Those criticizing it have every other gm in the history of the cap era on our side.

I don’t think 4 forwards making up 50% is as much of an issue as WHO the players are that make up the 50%. If we had something like Mackinnon instead of Matthews and Rantanen instead of Marner the team is likely in a different position

The guys who we have are the main issue imo. They don’t seem to have the gear those other players have, and lack the fiery element you need a core player on your team to have

 

[Dekes For Days]

How can you tell how hard someone is working? Honestly curious.

They can't, obviously. But since there is no specific comparative measure of how hard somebody works, it's something that is easy for an individual to claim in order to defend a position that they have no actual evidence to support. It's funny, because by most proxy measures of effort and hard work, the Leafs tend to do really well, especially in the playoffs. Some people like to believe that everything in life comes down to hard work, and that hard work is appropriately rewarded and reflected in outcomes, but hockey (and life for that matter) isn't that simple.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don’t think 4 forwards making up 50% is as much of an issue as WHO the players are that make up the 50%. If we had something like Mackinnon instead of Matthews and Rantanen instead of Marner the team is likely in a different position

The guys who we have are the main issue imo. They don’t seem to have the gear those other players have, and lack the fiery element you need a core player on your team to have

That's the thing though. MacKinnon made the playoffs in only two of his first five years in the league. It wasn't until his sixth season, that he won a round. He won the cup in his ninth season.

This group has made the playoffs, every year, and won their first round in their seventh season.

Their trajectories aren't that different. Players don't have that gear... until they do... (if they ever do.)

I don't know if this group will... my biggest concern is still Matthews ability to stay healthy. Without his wrist being healthy, and having his shooting back at an elite level, the rest doesn't matter much. Having another gear, or not... won't matter, if your star elite shooter, is broken. As frustrating as it's been, this team is built on his shooting ability... which is the way it is with stars really...

Betting huge on his ability to stay healthy, is the big risk here.

 

[ZEBROA]

i said 'the equivalent of' a player who does not have the puck, and has not handled the puck, has no expectation of being hit.
body checking is allowed in an attempt to gain possession of the puck "A body check can be defined as body contact primarily caused by the movement of the checker. The checker uses their body for the purpose of stopping the attacking progress of the puck carrier and/or to separate the carrier from the puck."
if you do not have the puck, you are not a 'carrier' and not a legal target to be hit.

Not my first language sorry.
I see reversed hits more like u receive a hit with a hit. The strongest win.

And when are a hit a hit, or just a powermove.

If the top core had P forsbergs mentality we would definitly be a better team.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

That's the thing though. MacKinnon made the playoffs in only two of his first five years in the league. It wasn't until his sixth season, that he won a round. He won the cup in his ninth season.

This group has made the playoffs, every year, and won their first round in their seventh season.

Their trajectories aren't that different. Players don't have that gear... until they do... (if they ever do.)

I don't know if this group will... my biggest concern is still Matthews ability to stay healthy. Without his wrist being healthy, and having his shooting back at an elite level, the rest doesn't matter much. Having another gear, or not... won't matter, if your star elite shooter, is broken. As frustrating as it's been, this team is built on his shooting ability... which is the way it is with stars really...

Betting huge on his ability to stay healthy, is the big risk here.

MacKinnon wasn't paid to be the guy that carried his team on his shoulders. If Matthews and Marner were only paid 6.5 mil each, nobody would be questioning their playoff numbers or cap allocation team design.