Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[notbias]

it amazes me you're still carrying the torch for a failed GM who has now taken his self promoting whimp schtick to ruin another team

what you haven't realized is Dumbass isn't coming back so it's too late to help him here so the smart thing to do is head on over to the Pens board because they aren't to happy with his off season moves . lol

Very good post, very well thought out, thank you for your input.

This argument really backed up your claim that we have major cap issues. It was well thought out and not at all childish, good job.

We have 30 million to spend next year and just spent 15 million.

We also have ELCs finally ready to play which is nice.

 

[Gary Nylund]

How different is the series if Matthews scores instead of hitting the post a minute into Game 1?

Maybe not at all. Yet the possibility is there that a little luck there changes the whole dynamic of the series

Never know for sure I guess, but probably just grasping at straws here.

 

[Thornbury]

Let’s say the cap do go up by 4mil next season.
2mil has already gone to AM.
TJ, Kling, Bert, Sammy and Domi are all UFA.
I don’t see how Willie can’t be fit into the cap at 10mil. As that’s only 1mil taken out from the five that I mentioned.

Agreed. If we can get a couple young guys - Niemela, Kokkonen, Timmins, Robertson, McCann ? - to step in, our cap management becomes a lot simpler. And the following year, Tavares comes off his $11 million cap hit. Light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

I agree. A little luck would go a long way. But can we not just beat Arizona...just once? It's so humiliating...

I agree with you my man... I'd love to make it a habit to crush the so-called minnows.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

I wish I could believe this but we went through that 4 year stretch starting with game 7 against Boston we got outscored 4-0 in the third period, then we got destroyed in the last first round game in the next three years as well. Had those been close games decided by a bounce here and there I could maybe agree but it was like we just gave it away and weren't even trying.

I can't explain it, maybe there's something in the water. I just can't bring myself to blame it on luck though, we sucked, we lost, end of story. Losing to Florida in 5 had nothing to do with luck either.

Losing to Florida had more to do with shitty officiating rather than luck in my humble opinion. Anyways, that was last season, I don't want to whine about it. Onwards and upwards.

 

[Gabriel426]

Never know for sure I guess, but probably just grasping at straws here.

I don't think it will be much different. The way the boys played against the Panthers was just like they did the past 6 years. They just didn't have the pack mentality like they did against TB in the first round.

 

[rumman]

Agree that the best thing might have been to trade Mitch before the NMC kicked in, but moving either Mitch or Willy isn't the only solution.

Can you elaborate on this?

 

[rumman]

I agree. A little luck would go a long way. But can we not just beat Arizona...just once? It's so humiliating...

Like Arnold Palmer said “the harder I work, the luckier I get.” You make your own luck……….

 

[nuck]

Let’s say the cap do go up by 4mil next season.
2mil has already gone to AM.
TJ, Kling, Bert, Sammy and Domi are all UFA.
I don’t see how Willie can’t be fit into the cap at 10mil. As that’s only 1mil taken out from the five that I mentioned.

But why would you assume the replacements for those UFAs would cost any less? Cap goes up and everyone wants a piece of the new pie. Thats two top 4 RD plus they don't really know what they have with McCabe. Any possible cheap in-system relief at D is likely 2 years away and is only speculative. What if Bert has a strong year and they need him back? What if Lily has a big year and won't settle for $3M? What if Jarnkrok declines? They have no value deals except for Knies and one more year of Woll.

I agree Willie can be fit into the cap but swapping his salary for JTs just perpetuates the Dubas model which has been vulnerable in the playoffs every year. If they re-sign him its another long term commitment to requiring a few big talents to batter their way through the playoffs and assembling bargain bin players or short timers like Domi and Bert to somehow help the oft failed core push through.

I'm not saying its impossible to win with three great forwards but history shows mega salaries cannibalize the rest of the lineup and it hasn't translated to Cup wins.

I know I am wasting my time with most of the folks on this thread but I can't get behind paying star salaries to a group that hasn't done anything. They don't even know if its the coach or the lineup FFS but they are running it back?

 

[34]

Back the Brinks truck up.


NEXT LEVEL…..

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

He's not asked to kill penalties for a reason. And his multiple stints at center fail because a centerman is suppose to play the full ice...back check and a higher responsibility on defensive assignments. Nylander fails at this. He's a winger. A great winger. But we have great wingers. We need defense and balance in our roster.

We have A great Winger in Marner. Trade Nylander and our winger depth is shot to be honest. I'm all for balancing out the cap as I agree, we're too top heavy right now which doesn't bode well for the playoffs. But Bertuzzi/Domi as your 2nd line wingers doesn't look great right now.

Not alot we can do obviously with trading Nylander being the easiest option. Just not sure it's the best.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Give the man his money. Cap is going up and we got players coming off the books and young guys on entry level deals. 10 x 6/7.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Like Arnold Palmer said “the harder I work, the luckier I get.” You make your own luck……….

The ultimate golf daredevil. He always went for wins because failing and losing by 20 shots didn't bother him.

 

[34]

He's not asked to kill penalties for a reason. And his multiple stints at center fail because a centerman is suppose to play the full ice...back check and a higher responsibility on defensive assignments. Nylander fails at this. He's a winger. A great winger. But we have great wingers. We need defense and balance in our roster.

Are you at it again? You sound like Marners cheerleader or his agent. He is a tier below Willy now.

The team does need D, trade Marner.

 

[Drytoast]

Are you at it again? You sound like Marners cheerleader or his agent. He is a tier below Willy now.

The team does need D, trade Marner.

Right now the only thing going through my head is "how are we going to pay Woll?" Because right now Woll is the best player on the ice ainec.

 

[34]

Right now the only thing going through my head is "how are we going to pay Woll?" Because right now Woll is the best player on the ice ainec.

Yes Woll looks amazing. I could not agree more. It is about time Toronto caught a breath of fresh air.

 

[Gabriel426]

But why would you assume the replacements for those UFAs would cost any less? Cap goes up and everyone wants a piece of the new pie. Thats two top 4 RD plus they don't really know what they have with McCabe. Any possible cheap in-system relief at D is likely 2 years away and is only speculative. What if Bert has a strong year and they need him back? What if Lily has a big year and won't settle for $3M? What if Jarnkrok declines? They have no value deals except for Knies and one more year of Woll.

I agree Willie can be fit into the cap but swapping his salary for JTs just perpetuates the Dubas model which has been vulnerable in the playoffs every year. If they re-sign him its another long term commitment to requiring a few big talents to batter their way through the playoffs and assembling bargain bin players or short timers like Domi and Bert to somehow help the oft failed core push through.

I'm not saying its impossible to win with three great forwards but history shows mega salaries cannibalize the rest of the lineup and it hasn't translated to Cup wins.

I know I am wasting my time with most of the folks on this thread but I can't get behind paying star salaries to a group that hasn't done anything. They don't even know if it’s the coach or the lineup FFS but they are running it back?

Well, the question is can the Leafs afford to lose Willie for nothing over 500k(lets say Leafs can only afford 9.5mil and Willie asking 10mil)?

Both TJ and Kling probably won’t be back and that’s 9.3mil. Ofcourse the Leafs need to replace them but I do think signing solid Dman between 3-4mil are very possible.

The other thing is that JT’s and his 11mil will be gone the following year, which means the Leafs will be tight for one year. Maybe next year will be the time for Holmberg, Minten, Robertson and Hironven as well as Kral to take the next step.
If they can’t do it, use the JT money to spend on secondary scoring.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

everyday nylander:

 

[authentic]

16 is also a ghost come playoff time. You only see what you want to see. At least 88 shows up in the post season.

Wait until zybalto gets a hold of this post

 

[WTFMAN99]

For the purposes of this, I am going for an 87.7M cap...they projected between 87.5-88M I believe

This is assuming Woll keeps his play up.

Montembault has been a battler in Montreal and I have liked what I have seen there and there isn't really another option in UFA that is significantly better.

 

[Thornbury]

Right now the only thing going through my head is "how are we going to pay Woll?" Because right now Woll is the best player on the ice ainec.

Happily, Woll is signed through next season at less than $800K. That's one move you have to give Dubas kudos for. It looks like we have a true #1 goalie for two years at the league minimum

 

[Notsince67]

We have A great Winger in Marner. Trade Nylander and our winger depth is shot to be honest. I'm all for balancing out the cap as I agree, we're too top heavy right now which doesn't bode well for the playoffs. But Bertuzzi/Domi as your 2nd line wingers doesn't look great right now.

Not alot we can do obviously with trading Nylander being the easiest option. Just not sure it's the best.

The team may be really lucky for a change. Sammy is coming off the books and if Woll shows himself to be a starter of his caliber or better, we free up about 2.7mm after we bring up a Marlie backup. No need to resign Sammy for the same or more.

 

[Drytoast]

Happily, Woll is signed through next season at less than $800K. That's one move you have to give Dubas kudos for. It looks like we have a true #1 goalie for two years at the league minimum

And then somewhere in the mid term of signing Nylander Matthews and Marner to huge contracts we now have to find money for a bonified starter?

Ya. That's the problem here. Which is more valuable? Nylander's pretty assist on the 2nd goal in a 4-1 win or a starting goalie who doesn't let in bad goals?

 

[Notsince67]

And then somewhere in the mid term of signing Nylander Matthews and Marner to huge contracts we now have to find money for a bonified starter?

Ya. That's the problem here. Which is more valuable? Nylander's pretty assist on the 2nd goal in a 4-1 win or a starting goalie who doesn't let in bad goals?

Priorities shift all the time. People here crap their pants because there never is cap space to make changes.
The truth is that there should never be cap space if the GM is running things properly.
Should the time comes to sign the second coming of Kerry Price, pieces will be re-evaluated. Right now, I am not putting any credence to a rainy day fund for the future.

 

[Drytoast]

Priorities shift all the time. People here crap their pants because there never is cap space to make changes.
The truth is that there should never be cap space if the GM is running things properly.
Should the time comes to sign the second coming of Kerry Price, pieces will be re-evaluated. Right now, I am not putting any credence to a rainy day fund for the future.

Correct. And we've been living that cumbersome ideology of investing in 4 forwards and Rielly...(I guess, he took a discount) and it's gotten us 1 playoff round win in 8 years.

You need to assume you are going to have to pay for a center, a winger, a defenseman and a solid starter. As well as having a decent 4 lines. Not 1 or 2 lines. 4. Cup winners can all roll 4 lines. 4 lines of not A+ players but 4 lines of A-B players. 4 lines of players who all buy into a team system. Not a small clique of contract "haves" playing with a bunch of contract "have nots" creating a divided locker room. Something that was confirmed with O'Rielly and Schenn.

Nylander is a luxury. We won't win with him Marner and Matthews eating most of the cap leaving no room for a solid 4 lines, a defense that isn't shallow or a goalie who refuses to let in bad goals. We need a much more balanced cap structure.

If we refuse to do that...refuse to learn what lopsided contracts do to team chemistry. Then enjoy the inevitable failure in the playoffs. That's where this goes. And if you don't believe me, please review the last 8 years.

Bottom line here; BOTH Willy and Marner need to come in at a realistic price point or both can f*** off. Don't need em. Don't need what they bring. We need a team. Not a handful of divas. If Willy doesn't wanna sign a realistic contract that we can build a team around, trade him. Don't need him. Florida and Vegas last year should have taught us all a lesson as to what wins and what doesn't win.