Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[Arzak]

We can easily blame this on Marner. If he wasn't overpaid and signed for $8.5M, it would be easier to get him and Nylander a raise now.


But alas Leafs can't expect Mitch Money to take a paycut --> so it's a low ball soup for Nylander again

 

[MavisGoldberg]

It's kind of funny guys who can have 44 points "Signed at a discount" at 8+ per, but Marner at 94 points for 10.9 is millions overpaid.

Marner had one of the greatest ELC seasons in history.
I just saw a reporter ask Stutzle why he signed at such a discount. LOL.

 

[ToneDog]

It's kind of funny guys who can have 44 points "Signed at a discount" at 8+ per, but Marner at 94 points for 10.9 is millions overpaid.

Marner had one of the greatest ELC seasons in history.
I just saw a reporter ask Stutzle why he signed at such a discount. LOL.

Care to share the names of those players? When I see players like Tage, Jason Robertson, Stuztle, M Tkachuk, Pettersson, Hughes, Point, Ranta, Pasta, Makar making much less than Marner and outperform their contracts, Mitch and his 99 points and selke nominations for $11m is overpaid IMO.

 

[MavisGoldberg]

Care to share the names of those players? When I see players like Tage, Jason Robertson, Stuztle, M Tkachuk, Pettersson, Hughes, Point, Ranta, Pasta, Makar making much less than Marner and outperform their contracts, Mitch and his 99 points and selke nominations for $11m is overpaid IMO.

Brady Tkachuk got 8.2 per after a career high 44 point season and no playoff games. Stutzle got 8.3 per for not hitting 60 yet.
You seem to be holding Marner's great start to his career against him. He had 94 points in his ELC, so it was always more difficult to "Outperform" a contract compared to when you get huge $ for 40 ish points...
FYI, Hughes also had 44 points career high when he signed...

Also, we STILL hear claims Marchand took millions less to help Boston "Win". You can only get so much when you sign based on what you are.

Issue with Leafs trio is they were so good from day 1. Matthews wasn't even getting very good TOI by Babcock and hit 40 goals as a rookie.

Leafs were the 1st team in 2016-17 to have 3 60+ point rookies since 81 Oilers started their dynasty

Another issue-Leafs trio signed right before Covid. The days of stars signing for under 10 million are over now with the cap going up.

 

[ToneDog]

Brady Tkachuk got 8.2 per after a career high 44 point season and no playoff games. Stutzle got 8.3 per for not hitting 60 yet.
You seem to be holding Marner's great start to his career against him. He had 94 points in his ELC, so it was always more difficult to "Outperform" a contract compared to when you get huge $ for 40 ish points...
FYI, Hughes also had 44 points career high when he signed...

Also, we STILL hear claims Marchand took millions less to help Boston "Win". You can only get so much when you sign based on what you are.

Issue with Leafs trio is they were so good from day 1. Matthews wasn't even getting very good TOI by Babcock and hit 40 as a rookie.

Are you are talking rookie years ? Jack Hughes never had a 44 point season and broke out in his 3rd year. He was a former #1OA and NJ was betting he would break out and were right. Sabres bet on Tage, Sens bet on Stutzle and BT. Leafs mistake was not to bet on Marner and Matthews early and giving JT $11m. Without JT's cap hit, I don't think there would be as much noise about Marner's cap hit.

 

[MavisGoldberg]

Are you are talking rookie years ? Jack Hughes never had a 44 point season and broke out in his 3rd year. He was a former #1OA and NJ was betting he would break out and were right. Sabres bet on Tage, Sens bet on Stutzle and BT. Leafs mistake was not to bet on Marner and Matthews early and giving JT $11m. Without JT's cap hit, I don't think there would be as much noise about Marner's cap hit.

I am talking stats *when* they signed You are not.

Again, a guy who had 94 points BEFORE he signed won't "Outperform his contract" like a 40 ish point player. Just the way it is.

 

[Racer88]

We can easily blame this on Marner. If he wasn't overpaid and signed for $8.5M, it would be easier to get him and Nylander a raise now.


But alas Leafs can't expect Mitch Money to take a paycut --> so it's a low ball soup for Nylander again

The Tavares contract 100% is the beginning, middle and end for the poor cap distribution we face right now

 

[thewave]

The Tavares contract 100% is the beginning, middle and end for the poor cap distribution we face right now

Beginning because it was a foolish price to pay and was trying to accelerate the rebuild.

Middle because the kids looked at the amount he makes and demanded more money than was likely warranted. Especially Mitch.

End because he is pretty much an anchor.

 

[Racer88]

Beginning because it was a foolish price to pay and was trying to accelerate the rebuild.

Middle because the kids looked at the amount he makes and demanded more money than was likely warranted. Especially Mitch.

End because he is pretty much an anchor.

All of the above man

 

[Evilhomer]

Beginning because it was a foolish price to pay and was trying to accelerate the rebuild.

Middle because the kids looked at the amount he makes and demanded more money than was likely warranted. Especially Mitch.

End because he is pretty much an anchor.

Had Tavares' money been available to sign Pieterangelo, who knows what might have been. I have no idea if Pieterangelo would have even entertained coming to Toronto (I don't see why not), but that is the kind of change that would have made a meaningful difference.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Still holding up much better than Matthews and for Swedish Leaf historical comparison Mats Sundin

Matthews never stood a chance. But who cares anyways, I dunno any sports that were dominated by bald athletes

 

[Menzinger]

What's a 1 year rental of Nylander worth?

2 years of Boeser?

Leafs are not in a position to trade him for futures.

In that scenario I could see the Leafs front office valuing Nylanders potential contributions in the upcoming post season over that lesser players spread over A couple.

My feelings about Nylander aside, from Tres and Shannys POV I see the motivation for trading him at this point to be fairly minimal vs the own rental option.

Which is why they're likely going to emphasize the extension route. Locking the player up gives them the ability to return to the trade option down the road in a season or two if things don't work out

 

[ULF_55]

Own rental.
Make him an offer and let him check out other teams.
If the offer is good enough he'll re-sign.
If the offer isn't good enough they'll use the money elsewhere.

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

Own rental.
Make him an offer and let him check out other teams.
If the offer is good enough he'll re-sign.
If the offer isn't good enough they'll use the money elsewhere.

They weren't good enough last year with the same core plus ROR so why is everyone so desperate to run it back? Its not like they replaced the coach to give this group a reset. And its not like Willie is a grinding power forward or a relentless two way beast that's unique in their lineup. Use the money elsewhere now and give the team a different look.

 

[Evilhomer]

In that scenario I could see the Leafs front office valuing Nylanders potential contributions in the upcoming post season over that lesser players spread over A couple.

My feelings about Nylander aside, from Tres and Shannys POV I see the motivation for trading him at this point to be fairly minimal vs the own rental option.

Which is why they're likely going to emphasize the extension route. Locking the player up gives them the ability to return to the trade option down the road in a season or two if things don't work out

100% agree with all of this.

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

In that scenario I could see the Leafs front office valuing Nylanders potential contributions in the upcoming post season over that lesser players spread over A couple.

My feelings about Nylander aside, from Tres and Shannys POV I see the motivation for trading him at this point to be fairly minimal vs the own rental option.

Which is why they're likely going to emphasize the extension route. Locking the player up gives them the ability to return to the trade option down the road in a season or two if things don't work out

Vegas got Marchessault at 26 coming off a 30 goal season. He had 21 points that first playoff. You don't need a $10m star on your second line. Just aim a little higher than Bunting or Jarnkrok.

 

[MavisGoldberg]

They weren't good enough last year with the same core plus ROR so why is everyone so desperate to run it back? Its not like they replaced the coach to give this group a reset. And its not like Willie is a grinding power forward or a relentless two way beast that's unique in their lineup. Use the money elsewhere now and give the team a different look.

Because they can be worse this year and go much farther. That's how hockey is.
Also, I didn't think ROR looked that good and I am glad he's not back.

The Tavares contract 100% is the beginning, middle and end for the poor cap distribution we face right now

It really was the actual production of the players. Not that contract. JT was UFA
Also, do Leafs really have a poor cap distribution? They have pretty good depth and almost no teams have any cap.

 

[ULF_55]

They weren't good enough last year with the same core plus ROR so why is everyone so desperate to run it back? Its not like they replaced the coach to give this group a reset. And its not like Willie is a grinding power forward or a relentless two way beast that's unique in their lineup. Use the money elsewhere now and give the team a different look.

Get one of the three double digits that combined to produced 1 goal in the 2nd. round to waive.

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

Because they can be worse this year and go much farther. That's how hockey is.
Also, I didn't think ROR looked that good and I am glad he's not back.


It really was the actual production of the players. Not that contract. JT was UFA

Or they can just fail again. They weren't really close in any year so randomly hoping this season shall be different seems like a bit of a stretch. Unless you think that they were just a few bounces away which is fair enough.

As far as Tavares goes, even with him out of the picture, why does a club with two all-star offensive forwards need another elite offensive player to win it all? It may eventually work because they are a good club but it may just be following a top heavy BPA structure that leaves them married solely to the success of the "tip of the spear".

Everything they do revolves around servicing the salaries of a few star forwards yet the rest of the league seems to really spread their money around after that and win Cups doing it. Agree about ROR, but that may be the coach or just not enough time to adapt to the new club.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Vegas got Marchessault at 26 coming off a 30 goal season. He had 21 points that first playoff. You don't need a $10m star on your second line. Just aim a little higher than Bunting or Jarnkrok.

Somebody should have explained that to Dubas before he signed an $11M star for his second line (several years ago, when it was a much higher portion of the cap).

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

The Tavares contract 100% is the beginning, middle and end for the poor cap distribution we face right now

Not sure thats right. JT was a mistake but Willie should have been traded after he missed his first game. The Tavares addition contributed to Marners early 100pt pace which would have massively driven up the signing costs. Matthews floor started with Eichel who was clearly a lesser talent so there were a lot of factors involved. The failure to sign all three before the season started was a disaster.

 

[Taylor Halls Teeth]

Somebody should have explained that to Dubas before he signed an $11M star for his second line (several years ago, when it was a much higher portion of the cap).

Can't argue with that

 

[kb]

Somebody should have explained that to Dubas before he signed an $11M star for his second line (several years ago, when it was a much higher portion of the cap).

You don't turn away someone who is one of the most consistent scorers over the past several years for $11 million when SJ was offering $13 million.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You don't turn away someone who is one of the most consistent scorers over the past several years for $11 million when SJ was offering $13 million.

I'm not sure there's proof that SJ offered $13M, but it's immaterial.

If someone had offered Leo Komarov $13M that same year, does it mean someone should have paid him $11M? (No, I'm not comparing them.)

It's also a rumour that basically all the GM's knew JT was coming here, and if so, a $13M offer is nothing but a gesture to their fans.

You don't pay one of the very highest cap hits for a player who you know will be a 2C after the first year, and likely a 3C the last couple. And you very very much don't give him 7 years with a full NMC.

 

[kb]

I'm not sure there's proof that SJ offered $13M, but it's immaterial.

If someone had offered Leo Komarov $13M that same year, does it mean someone should have paid him $11M? (No, I'm not comparing them.)

It's also a rumour that basically all the GM's knew JT was coming here, and if so, a $13M offer is nothing but a gesture to their fans.

You don't pay one of the very highest cap hits for a player who you know will be a 2C after the first year, and likely a 3C the last couple. And you very very much don't give him 7 years with a full NMC.

Sure you do. He's not coming for $8 million. You pay to fill a void.