Nylander contract discussion - New Poll

[therealkoho]

What 4 1sts?

Oh shucks ufa, NVM

 

[therealkoho]

If you are a player making 10% of what the so called big 4 are making, are you gonna go through a wall when they see these 4 guys wilt in spring? Doubt it. Say what you will about ROR, but IMO he knew his best move was not to sign here.

Just glad someone else saw what was going on there. I heard what he said at the exit interview, sometimes they tell truth through the veil.

 

[TheDoldrums]

We're talking money in money out in a Nylander situation. If you replace Brodie with Roy you still have holes in the D unless McCabe-Liljegren is your 2nd pair.

Dickinson+Foegele are 3rd liners. Good 3rd liners.

I think you missed the point of my post: if you aren't spending 11.25M on Nylander you can spread that money on upgrades throughout the lineup.

I haven't missed the point.

Foegele was considered cap dump territory in Edmonton a couple seasons ago. The problem with "good 3rd liners" is it only takes a relatively minor drop in effectiveness to be 4th liners. Our 3rd line has been quite productive on a per minute basis. How big of an upgrade are Foegele and Dickinson over guys like Domi and Jarnkrok? How many 3rd liners does one team need? I'm pretty sure those guys would be on the 4th line as we're currently constructed, making too much money for very little ice time.

Whatever upgrades you imagine these guys provide are massively, unmistakably dwarfed by the huge downgrade in removing a 100 point player from the lineup.

 

[Confucius]

If Willie signs for $11.25m, the 4 forwards will take $46.393m of a projected $87.7m cap. That is 53% of the cap. Of course some will tell you it will be easy to fill in the rest of the roster. Just don't waste cap space on Sammy, Klingberg, Reaves, Bertuzzi, Domi.

Spoiler alert, when the cap rises UFAs become more expensive. The only guys giving you a discount are local boys near the end of their careers who want to play close to their families. Looking forward to Petro signing here when he becomes a UFA in 27/28.

Ahh yes the retirement years from has beens, let’s do them a favour. Wonder why we haven’t tried that before… oh wait

What 4 1sts?

I there were 4 1sts involved, love yeah but bye William. Lol

 

[JKG33]

Ya. Drafting and developing great talent is soooo pathetic.

And what exactly has all this great talent accomplished beyond cashing their inflated paychecks?

 

[Jojalu]

And what exactly has all this great talent accomplished beyond cashing their inflated paychecks?

In terms of what? Winning Cups? Zero.

Making the playoffs 7 straight years. Check.

Of course every fan wants this team to have more success, but in my lifetime at least I have never seen them even get to a final.

If they are going to sign Nylander then we will have to wait until Marner and Tavares' contracts end before there will be a change.

In the meantime I will have to comtinue to hope this is the year they somehow figure it out

 

[thewave]

Ya. Drafting and developing great talent is soooo pathetic.

They started off drafting and then Dubas traded all the support players and could/would be picks for immediate help. It was a massive failure and the results are there. It's now fact that we accomplished nothing under Dubas/Shanny.

In terms of what? Winning Cups? Zero.

Making the playoffs 7 straight years. Check.

Of course every fan wants this team to have more success, but in my lifetime at least I have never seen them even get to a final.

If they are going to sign Nylander then we will have to wait until Marner and Tavares' contracts end before there will be a change.

In the meantime I will have to comtinue to hope this is the year they somehow figure it out

Oh come on, taking 7 years to win a single round is about as much of a plateau as a plant stand.

 

[Jojalu]

They started off drafting and then Dubas traded all the support players and could/would be picks for immediate help. It was a massive failure and the results are there. It's now fact that we accomplished nothing under Dubas/Shanny.



Oh come on, taking 7 years to win a single round is about as much of a plateau as a plant stand.

It is a plateau for sure.

Needs to be better.

My point is that it has been far worse.

 

[Martin Skoula]

In hindsight it would have been highly beneficial to let Nylander sit that year, he was completely irrelevant to the team once he returned and one could say they were playing better that year without him. One can only wonder how future negotiations would have panned out if they let 88 rot for a year………

Then next year you have 3 RFAs that can negotiate as a block against you. If you don’t pay them you’re down 3 top 6 forwards and can’t spend their money in UFA while they shop around for offer sheets.

 

[ULF_55]

Leading edge management.

Every player wants more ice time.

3 forward lines and 1 off the bench.

3 defensive pair and 1 off the bench.

Knies-Mathews-marner (20+ minutes + special teams)
Bertuzzi-Tavares-Nylander (20+ minutes + special teams)
Robertson-Domi-Jarnkrok (15+ minutes + special teams)
Minten

Rielly - Walker
McCabe - Liljegren
Aho/UFA - Benoit
Kokkonen / Niemela rotate

 

[JKG33]

In terms of what? Winning Cups? Zero.

Making the playoffs 7 straight years. Check.

Of course every fan wants this team to have more success, but in my lifetime at least I have never seen them even get to a final.

If they are going to sign Nylander then we will have to wait until Marner and Tavares' contracts end before there will be a change.

In the meantime I will have to comtinue to hope this is the year they somehow figure it out

Half the teams in the league make the playoffs. For a team that does as well as they do in the regular season and then does nothing every single playoff, that's not an accomplishment.

Some progress would've been nice, but they've shown basically 0 growth and now 7 yrs in its at the point where it should be cup or bust, not giddy over a single rd victory.

Not one of Tavares, Matthews, or Marner have lived up to their contracts based on playoff performance. Despite being the best of the 4, Nylander hasn't shown to be an $11m playoff player either. Yet we wanna double down on overpaying these disappointments? Hard pass.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Among forwards, over the last 4+ seasons he's 14th in goals and 20th in points.

Over the last 3+ seasons, he's 17th in goals and points.

Over the last 2+ seasons he's 14th in goals and 15th in points.

Over the last 1+ seasons he's 9th in goals and 13th is points.

 

[Jojalu]

Half the teams in the league make the playoffs. For a team that does as well as they do in the regular season and then does nothing every single playoff, that's not an accomplishment.

Some progress would've been nice, but they've shown basically 0 growth and now 7 yrs in its at the point where it should be cup or bust, not giddy over a single rd victory.

Not one of Tavares, Matthews, or Marner have lived up to their contracts based on playoff performance. Despite being the best of the 4, Nylander hasn't shown to be an $11m playoff player either. Yet we wanna double down on overpaying these disappointments? Hard pass.

I don't disagree.

Yet I have no say in what the team does so I can only make the decision to continue being a fan, or throw my hands up and walk away.

I survived 22 years of the Jays missing the playoffs at the same time the Bills were missing for 20 straight. Add in the Leafs missing for 10 years, and almost 20 without winning a round and I am still a glass half full fan.

Although I understand why some are so frustrated

 

[DarkKnight]

Even if you argue he’s worth the money, it isn’t money we can afford with our situation, so it’s almost irrelevant. At 9.5 sure, 11.5 is madness. I feel we have to look to trade him, get some assets and fill the space elsewhere. You can secure two very good D men for that money, plus what he brings in a trade to help acquire them, we will be fine. It isn’t ideal but it’s reality.

I want max money, at max term, with max bonus up front, plus maxing out on endorsements here. Get this team off this never-ending ride. You “love it here”, well give something back.

 

[Menzinger]

Where do you factor in the pieces you get in return for Nylander? What about the defenseman in UFA? The Leafs could very well bring in Roy (4.5M)+Toffoli (5M)+Dickinson (2.5M)+Foegele(2M) for the price of Nylander(11.25)+Timmins(1.1)+Gregor(.8)+McMann(.8) and whatever pieces Nylander returns in a trade ideally on ELC's.

You could also end up with Bertuzzi (5.5), klingberg (4.15), and Reaves (1.35) for about the price of Nylander.

Free agency isn't necessarily the easiest way to get quality depth. The desirable guys can decline your offer, and you're left scrambling to fill out the lineup with scraps that's left over.

LA probably won't but would you do Nylander @ 50% retained for Byfield and Clarke and then sign Tre's buddy Lindholm for $9.5x7?

Lindholm just turned down (allegedly) 9x8 from the Flames. He's probably looking for 10-11 in free agency on a 7 year deal.

 

[thewave]

Even if you argue he’s worth the money, it isn’t money we can afford with our situation, so it’s almost irrelevant. At 9.5 sure, 11.5 is madness. I feel we have to look to trade him, get some assets and fill the space elsewhere. You can secure two very good D men for that money, plus what he brings in a trade to help acquire them, we will be fine. It isn’t ideal but it’s reality.

I want max money, at max term, with max bonus up front, plus maxing out on endorsements here. Get this team off this never-ending ride. You “love it here”, well give something back.

What they really should do is offer WN (10m) and MM (TBD) long term but with only 2-3 years NTC and then limited.

The NTCs are the dagger.

 

[Stephen]

Even if you argue he’s worth the money, it isn’t money we can afford with our situation, so it’s almost irrelevant. At 9.5 sure, 11.5 is madness. I feel we have to look to trade him, get some assets and fill the space elsewhere. You can secure two very good D men for that money, plus what he brings in a trade to help acquire them, we will be fine. It isn’t ideal but it’s reality.

I want max money, at max term, with max bonus up front, plus maxing out on endorsements here. Get this team off this never-ending ride. You “love it here”, well give something back.

We can also secure 2 very good defensemen with the money coming off the books from the Brodie and Klingberg deals, essentially filling one roster spot. Compared to when we started this season, we would be re-investing $9.15 million on the blueline. Liljegren and Benoit are due very modest raises at best.

 

[Americanadian]

You could also end up with Bertuzzi (5.5), klingberg (4.15), and Reaves (1.35) for about the price of Nylander.

Free agency isn't necessarily the easiest way to get quality depth. The desirable guys can decline your offer, and you're left scrambling to fill out the lineup with scraps that's left over.

I completely agree. Trades are also an option. Good players on good contracts like Bjorkstrand, Burns, Marino, Pacioretty, Niederreiter were moved for far below their value in the past few years. Treliving's FA record does give me pause but there are plenty of avenues to spend cap space wisely for a competent manager.

 

[Americanadian]

I haven't missed the point.

Foegele was considered cap dump territory in Edmonton a couple seasons ago. The problem with "good 3rd liners" is it only takes a relatively minor drop in effectiveness to be 4th liners. Our 3rd line has been quite productive on a per minute basis. How big of an upgrade are Foegele and Dickinson over guys like Domi and Jarnkrok? How many 3rd liners does one team need? I'm pretty sure those guys would be on the 4th line as we're currently constructed, making too much money for very little ice time.

Whatever upgrades you imagine these guys provide are massively, unmistakably dwarfed by the huge downgrade in removing a 100 point player from the lineup.

Foegele is a perfectly fine player in Edmonton after his first season. He paced 16g/34p last season while providing very good defensive results. This season he's pacing 16g/44p. He's a good 3rd liner.

As far as Domi goes, I personally wouldn't bring him back. He's brutal defensively and will be overpaid based on his point totals. I'd prefer Dickinson over him any day. I was referring to how I'd fill Nylander's 11.25M. I'd run a Foegele-Dickinson-Jarnkrok 3rd line in a heartbeat and I'd spend Domi's 3M+Brodie's 5M on one of the big name LD in FA to slot in behind Rielly (Hanifin, Skjei, Forsling).

I get that you value 100 points a lot but Nylander has yet to score 100 points and even if he does this season I don't think it's realistic to expect that from him going forward. If the Leafs can bring in Toffoli at <50% of the cost on fairly short term (2-4 years) and re-invest on defense with one of the players mentioned in this post or previous posts AND bring in assets in a Nylander trade they are most likely better off than overpaying a ~90 point winger until he's 36.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Your username checks out.

The guy with 34 goals last year on pace for 35 this year all while being a positive defensive player? I must have missed the part where he's washed.

He’s a passenger this year and aside from a few goals he’s been really really poor for jersey and at his age and counting stats a prime candidate for an awful ufa deal.

 

[Divine]

Crazy how fast the Leafs front office is lining up to pay Nylander 11M+ x 8 because they're scared of him hitting UFA.

Meanwhile, there's no pressure on UFA Sam Reinhart in Florida who's also leading their team in scoring, is a centre, and having a career year. Just had a hat trick today also - 50 points and 28 goals in 39 games.

 

[ToneDog]

Crazy how fast the Leafs front office is lining up to pay Nylander 11M+ x 8 because they're scared of him hitting UFA.

Meanwhile, there's no pressure on UFA Sam Reinhart in Florida who's also leading their team in scoring, is a centre, and having a career year. Just had a hat trick today also - 50 points and 28 goals in 39 games.

He'll get millions less than Willie and the usual suspects will blame taxes.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

We have draft and developed 3 elite players who bloom in the fall and wilt in spring. LOL.

So basically we have Australian flowers...lovely.

 

[ToneDog]

So basically we have Australian flowers...lovely.

Too bad they do not play for the Jays. We got 4 NHL Dave Winfields and no Reggie Jacksons.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

But he says he wants to stay and nobody can pay him more. If he wants to win, why squeeze every cent?

You can blame MLSE or MM and AM along with JT for this mess. Willy isn't going to be the chump again this time. I don't blame him. We had a chance to reset this shit with AM this summer and he did what he did...again...so no chance Willy is going to be reasonable after seeing that.

Besides...any money that Willy would leave on the table would just be scooped up by Mitchy anyways.