Line Combos: Nylander as a Center Discussion

[Maplebeasts]

JT was 10th in the league at face-off % at 58%? I mean he has his warts, but face-offs isn't one of them, he's elite.

There is a lot more to playing centre than face-offs.

 

[Squiffy]

There is a lot more to playing centre than face-offs.

Yes there is. The response was specifically to the assertion in the post quoted (edit: sorry not quoted, but proceeding post) that JT was “below average” on draws. That’s just demonstrably wrong. He’s elite on draws.

Aside from that, he plays centre in the O zone well still. Still gets to dirty areas, still finds space. It’s the speed required to be the first forward back with the opposition breaking out that’s a problem for him now. I don’t know if Willy’s speed trumps JT’s career as a centre instincts yet, but certainly interested to see what a Willy at C JT to wing experiment looks like. Eyes will tell.

 

[notDatsyuk]

JT is good at scoring. Other than that, I cannot say he does anything else good. More often than not he covers the wrong guy. He does not carry the puck on the rush, or at all. His days of puck protection was gone before he got here. In a tie game he cannot be used in O/T or we loose. Face-off percentage is low, especially vs other top C's in the game. Best scenario now is to play him as top line winger, where we always have the puck. William will be fine playing 2C. It is long overdue.

Well 3C is more for a shut down type who could probably PK. He is not suitable there, so that leaves 2W. I just feel Willy playing 2C on a line with two decent skaters will be unstoppable, and probably out score the top line. JT can still score, play him on the wing and he will still rack up decent numbers.

The bolded is just wrong - his faceoff % was 8th among centres (min 41 games). He has always been very good at faceoffs, if nothing else.

I think the idea of 3rd line = shutdown is a bit outdated.

Last year JT got half his goals on the PP, and he'll still get that time regardless.

I think he would be even more of a detriment at 1W than at 2C.

 

[ZEBROA]

I at first thought this was a joke. But this might make the season a little more interesting.

 

[SHANNYPLAN]

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Bertuzzi - Nylander - Jarnkrok
Robertson - Tavares - Domi
Lafferty - Kampf - Reaves

 

[ZEBROA]

One thing that will be against Nylander is that every little defensive misstake will be magnifyed and made to much more then it is. Its just the psycolgic law too stuff like this. So he need to be better then his best wich is always hard to maintain for a long stretch.

 

[Kazparov]

He has the offensive talent but he lacks the mindset to play center in his own end.

He is lazy on the back check, likes to cheat on the breakout, and avoids any sort of contact.

Has the tools but not the mindset.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Don’t see it lasting very long at all unless Nylander has a sudden change in personality. He barely knows where his own end is, has wildly inconsistent effort, and is buttery soft.

There is a reason he was shifted to wing full time in the first place.

 

[thewave]

Don’t see it lasting very long at all unless Nylander has a sudden change in personality. He barely knows where his own end is, has wildly inconsistent effort, and is buttery soft.

There is a reason he was shifted to wing full time in the first place.

He can get back pretty quick and handle C. He did so for team SWE. People saying he cant handle that role are mistaken IMHO.

BTW. He would have been used at C or tried at it on a team that was not having Matthews and JT filling the position. How do you tell him he is a 3C with that skill. You cant he would leave first opportunity or even demand trade as I would.

Be realistic.

 

[mclaren55]

Why 3rd line should be shutdown line?

If youre using exemple bertuzzi with matthews and jarnkrok+ Marner with jt and knies... youre already get 2 shutdown line who can play against everybody... youre adding kampf and whatever on 4th youre getting a 3rd one... so why youre absolutly need a 4th shutdown line.

Playing in a 3rd is not a demotion, its just using player youre having the best way you can... like giving most offensive start you cab to nylander. If you able to create 4 line who can generate thing, you can create mismatch like whats florida did with reinhart line or vegas with karlsson line. So if matthews or marner was not able to produce at high rate 1 game or 2, game will not be over because maybe nylander will provide those goal during those game... thats exactly 1 of reason why leafs lost past season, when top 6 was not able to produce at high rate, every time they lost.

Because they keep core doesn't they need to keep the same strategy, they can try something else. Add of Bertuzi, knies and domi can make you change your strategy. Using nylander on a 3rd line and creating mismatch can be a pretty good strategy come playoff time but its not game 81 you need to test it, its right now and beggining of season.

Typically the third line in hockey is used to shut down the top 2 offensive lines on opposing teams, which is why I suggested that. I'm not saying having three scoring lines wouldn't be fun to see, I just don't think you want to do that to create "match-ups". I rather have a solid third line that can shut down the oppositions top 2 lines, and get my first line out against a weaker line. I don't think you can argue that having Bertuzzi on Matthews wing makes them a shutdown line, or moving Jarnkrok to the Marner line makes them a shutdown line either. Knies has potential, but really hasn't proven anything at the NHL level yet.

You're inherently making the second line less dynamic, in hopes that the third line becomes more dynamic. None of the forwards we added in the offseason are defensive stalwarts. Just not sure how this works. Maybe they are easing him into centre on the third line with the intention of moving him up to the second, as others have stated. I hope it works, obviously, I love this team.

 

[Hellcat]

Fist step in moving Tavares to the wing.

There is that and the optics of having two wingers making 10 mil plus, it's harder to play center than it is to play wing, you cant justify paying Marner 13mil and Willie 10 mil at wing but you could if you did some mental gymnastics justify paying one center 10 mil and another 13 mil. JT's next contract will be somewhere in the 5 to 7 mil range, so essentially Willie and JT swap places on the cap chart and on the ice.

Pretty sure Willie played some center before he joined the Leafs so the position is not completely alien to Willie. I wonder if Willie stays at center if 1) JT still takes most of the faceoffs 2) if Willie stays as healthy as he has been, much more wear and tear on a center.

With that said Willie is not a center, his history of taking nights off wont fly as the 2nd line center.

He can get back pretty quick and handle C. He did so for team SWE. People saying he cant handle that role are mistaken IMHO.

BTW. He would have been used at C or tried at it on a team that was not having Matthews and JT filling the position. How do you tell him he is a 3C with that skill. You cant he would leave first opportunity or even demand trade as I would.

Be realistic.

The guy has amazing skill, the question is not his physical abilities but his mental abilities (desire) over 82 games

 

[Hellcat]

The bolded is just wrong - his faceoff % was 8th among centres (min 41 games). He has always been very good at faceoffs, if nothing else.

I think the idea of 3rd line = shutdown is a bit outdated.

Last year JT got half his goals on the PP, and he'll still get that time regardless.

I think he would be even more of a detriment at 1W than at 2C.

There is a time and place for a shut down line, mainly playoffs when you have home ice.

 

[Martin Skoula]

There is that and the optics of having two wingers making 10 mil plus, it's harder to play center than it is to play wing, you cant justify paying Marner 13mil and Willie 10 mil at wing but you could if you did some mental gymnastics justify paying one center 10 mil and another 13 mil. JT's next contract will be somewhere in the 5 to 7 mil range, so essentially Willie and JT swap places on the cap chart and on the ice.

Pretty sure Willie played some center before he joined the Leafs so the position is not completely alien to Willie. I wonder if Willie stays at center if 1) JT still takes most of the faceoffs 2) if Willie stays as healthy as he has been, much more wear and tear on a center.

With that said Willie is not a center, his history of taking nights off wont fly as the 2nd line center.



The guy has amazing skill, the question is not his physical abilities but his mental abilities (desire) over 82 games

We’re comparing him to Tavares lol, even if Nylander refuses to backcheck every other game, what’s the difference between that and Tavares taking 6 minutes to skate from the offensive zone back to the defensive zone every game? At least the Nylander has on-games sometimes where he’s a 200 foot force. Tavares is never a 200 force even when he’s on, he just gets better in front of the net and on the wall when he’s feeling it.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The 3rd and 4th lines have been a problem for some time. The Leafs were too top heavy under Dubas. So I like this idea. Let's just see if Keefe gives it more than a few games.

 

[ULF_55]

Knies - Matthews - Bertuzzi (Matthews good defensively)
Domi - Nylander - marner (marner Selke calibre)
Minton - Tavares - Lafferty
marner/Nylander/Matthews - Kampf - Reaves

Rielly - Brodie
McCabe - Liljegren
Giordano - Klingberg

Jarnkrok - cap casualty

Samsonov
Woll

 

[ZEBROA]

The odds are stacked against him , but it would be realy nice to se him succede. How many players has gone from wing to C before this long into his NHL career?

 

[ULF_55]

The odds are stacked against him , but it would be realy nice to se him succede. How many players has gone from wing to C before this long into his NHL career?

Won't be easy, but the good thing is he can move from wing to center to wing to ... as they do have Matthews and Tavares for the next couple of years.

I'd look at this as a transition effort rather than a one and done move.

Nylander has played center, so it isn't like it is moving a winger who has never played center to center.

And of course even a 30 year defenseman can move from defense to center on a Cup winning team.

 

[Hellcat]

We’re comparing him to Tavares lol, even if Nylander refuses to backcheck every other game, what’s the difference between that and Tavares taking 6 minutes to skate from the offensive zone back to the defensive zone every game? At least the Nylander has on-games sometimes where he’s a 200 foot force. Tavares is never a 200 force even when he’s on, he just gets better in front of the net and on the wall when he’s feeling it.

I suppose when you put it in that context your probably not wrong, not sure if the more physical aspect of playing center would foster an environment where Willie disappears more?

 

[ULF_55]

I suppose when you put it in that context your probably not wrong, not sure if the more physical aspect of playing center would foster an environment where Willie disappears more?

The thing is sometimes people need to be put in a position where they have to live up to their potential (life in general).

I really think this is a great opportunity, and perhaps a turning point in Nylander's career.

This gives him the opportunity to break through the glass ceiling into the Matthew-marner realm as Tavares continues the trend in the opposite direction.

As they say, the ball is in Nylander's court...

 

[TMLAM34]

Honestly I have to give it to Treliving. There’s probably multiple factors that play into moving Nylander to center.

One being his next contract. Treliving probably doesn’t feel comfortable paying Nylander 9.5 million per as a winger when the organization is in desperate need of a second line center. So why not at least give Nylander an extended look at that position when he used to play it in every league outside of the NHL and has been successful at it…

Second, if Nylander is successful not only does it warrant his next contract but it also solves a huge issue with Tavares’ declining play outside of faceoffs and the desperate need for a second line center.

Good for Treliving for stepping in and wanting to see Nylander get an extended look at center. No better time in trying this than pre-season and at the start of the regular season.

 

[Zack47]

I have wanted this to happen for a long time. People get stuck in their views of players, and somehow, never change that view. Nylander is a natural centre. He plays like one -- when he has the puck. He is very aware of the need to upgrade his defensive responsibility, and you can't test this when he is playing wing. I think this is a smart upgrade for the Leafs, as long as it is 2nd line centre, not third. He does need wingers who can score. Kadri's production went down going from 2nd to 3rd lien centre, of course. We need Nylander to reach his potential, but bury him with "third rate" wingers.

 

[meefer]

Nylander’s talent will allow him to succeed at C. His mindset is the only question. I like the experiment. The concerns expressed here are overblown. If Matthews and Marner cannot upgrade their performances in the playoffs, if the team defence is substandard, if our goaltending takes a step back, all will prove more damaging than plying Willy at C.

 

[Notsince67]

One thing that will be against Nylander is that every little defensive misstake will be magnifyed and made to much more then it is. Its just the psycolgic law too stuff like this. So he need to be better then his best wich is always hard to maintain for a long stretch.

Nylander doesnt make defensive mistakes. He makes defensive choices or rather choices not to defend.

 

[ZEBROA]

Nylander doesnt make defensive mistakes. He makes defensive choices or rather choices not to defend.

Lets hope he makes better choices while getting used to the C role. I just hope they give this a real try and not some halfass atempt like before.

 

[thusk]

Typically the third line in hockey is used to shut down the top 2 offensive lines on opposing teams, which is why I suggested that. I'm not saying having three scoring lines wouldn't be fun to see, I just don't think you want to do that to create "match-ups". I rather have a solid third line that can shut down the oppositions top 2 lines, and get my first line out against a weaker line. I don't think you can argue that having Bertuzzi on Matthews wing makes them a shutdown line, or moving Jarnkrok to the Marner line makes them a shutdown line either. Knies has potential, but really hasn't proven anything at the NHL level yet.

You're inherently making the second line less dynamic, in hopes that the third line becomes more dynamic. None of the forwards we added in the offseason are defensive stalwarts. Just not sure how this works. Maybe they are easing him into centre on the third line with the intention of moving him up to the second, as others have stated. I hope it works, obviously, I love this team.

It was the case in 90s, right now you need 3 balanced line...


Matthews is great defensivly, jarnkrok is great too, youre adding Bertuzzi whos a hard worker pretty hard to play against, youve getting a 2 way line able to play against everypne.. Marner is great, Knies despite the fact hes young, hes very good defensivly, tavares is not an elite one in the defensive end but still good. Together youve got a line who can play against opposite top 6 without risk thatsb
whats i said.

When florida put cousins with tkachuk unstead of reinhart they was less dynamic, yes but whos care... when Tkachuk was unable to produce, whos taking the step? It was reinhart line..Thats the danger by putting all your egg in the same basket, whats leaf did by the past... When youre top player cant produce at high rate, its over..

You take vegas, florida, tampa... when top was inable to produce, they still find a way to win.

1-Get a nylander playong against a 3rd defensive pair and/or 3rd or 4th line, you can create a mismatch vs playing nylander with matthews vs top defensive line and best defensive and one of 2 best defensive line...

2- if youre splitting matthews and nylander... Matthews line will wtill pretty good and still great in puck possession...and youre having nylander woth domi on a 3rd line, they can raise puck possession of that line. If you raising your puck possession on your bottom 6, you will play less in defensive zonr, so allowing less offensive scoring chance, less goal so overal as a team you will be better. Maybe yes nylander will drop in his individual stats a little bit in regular season but what do you really want, build your team to win regular season game or build your team to have succes in playoff? For playoff succes, youre chance will be much higher get 3 good line who can contribute than put all your eggs in the same basket.. thats whats chicago did with kane, toews and sharp in 3 different line, pittsburgh with crosby malkin and kessel on 3 different line.