Line Combos: Nylander as a Center Discussion

[thusk]

Nylander doesnt make defensive mistakes. He makes defensive choices or rather choices not to defend.

Yes youre right biggest concern defensivly for nylander is lack of commitment and decision making ( like let stamkos all alone 10 feet of the net to cover a d stick in his blue line) cheating mentality...

Maybe using nylander as center, he will not be able to cheat like he did as winger offensivly and see him more commitment in the defensive end because yes hes able to make defensive play.

 

[Notsince67]

Lets hope he makes better choices while getting used to the C role. I just hope they give this a real try and not some halfass atempt like before.

He has all the skills one can hope for. He needs to buy into the defensive end of the game to take it to the next level.

Yes youre right biggest concern defensivly for nylander is lack of commitment and decision making ( like let stamkos all alone 10 feet of the net to cover a d stick in his blue line) cheating mentality...

Maybe using nylander as center, he will not be able to cheat like he did as winger offensivly and see him more commitment in the defensive end because yes hes able to make defensive play.

I think he can play anyway he choses. His defensive lapses are rarely boneheaded moves. Maybe with a big contract on the line, he will finally commit to played both ways.

 

[thusk]

He has all the skills one can hope for. He needs to buy into the defensive end of the game to take it to the next level.


I think he can play anyway he choses. His defensive lapses are rarely boneheaded moves. Maybe with a big contract on the line, he will finally commit to played both ways.

I talked a lot about of bad nylander had been defensivly against tampa but like 75% of those goal was nylander trying to cheat for offensive side.. as a c you cant cheat as much than a winger so mayve will help to reduce cheating from him and get the best of him.

Of leafs dont try, we cant know... if its working would be great in worst case, they can trybdomi at C and nylander on wing, came back like they was last year or find an other option. But i like seeing leafs trying diffenrent option .

 

[notdoneyet]

I have posted this same idea many times in the past.

The concept being you divide up your 3 X $11 mil players with each on their own lines and that involves moving Willy to C and having Marner as his winger and building a strong top 9 and not a top 6 and bottom 6 as Leafs have been doing. Now fill in your wingers around your top 3 C's.

Bertuzzi --- Matthews -- Kane
Knies ----- Nylander -- Marner
Domi ----- Tavares -- Jarnkrok

The main reason behind this concept is that is spreads the wealth of the talent across more lines and softens the blow of having 4 forwards use up 1/2 your Salary Cap by forcing the opposition to defend 3 lines instead of 2.

"Don't put all your eggs in one basket" because then you face getting swept in the playoffs when you only have to focus on 4 players to shutdown the offense of the Leafs.

Love this idea but put Willy with marner so Mitch can soften any defensive misfortunes that Willy can learn from
Bert AM kane
Domi Willy marner
Knies Tavares janrok

 

[notDatsyuk]

Don’t see it lasting very long at all unless Nylander has a sudden change in personality. He barely knows where his own end is, has wildly inconsistent effort, and is buttery soft.

There is a reason he was shifted to wing full time in the first place.

He was shifted to the wing because Dubas thought overpaying Tavares was the way to the Cup.

 

[Notsince67]

https://x.com/jonassiegel/status/1704874135833223495?s=20

 

[francis246]

He was shifted to the wing because Dubas thought overpaying Tavares was the way to the Cup.

I actually agree with this, I do think the original plan was probably to have Matthews, Nylander, Kadri up the middle. We had a ton of young talent on the wings.

 

[TMLAM34]

I actually agree with this, I do think the original plan was probably to have Matthews, Nylander, Kadri up the middle. We had a ton of young talent on the wings.

What should have been…

 

[Twowingcantfly]

That’s just your own silly definition. There is no requirement for a 3C or a 2a/2b to be that at all. None. We’ve got that in Kampf.

Point taken. It was a response given about a particular player. While Kampf plays shut down, and kills penalties, very good I must say. Stanley cup winning teams time and again have rosters where every player can play shut down hockey and PK when needed.
On this team we have too many players that can't do either. Until then, I cannot see the cup coming here anytime soon.

 

[Sypher04]

Point taken. It was a response given about a particular player. While Kampf plays shut down, and kills penalties, very good I must say. Stanley cup winning teams time and again have rosters where every player can play shut down hockey and PK when needed.
On this team we have too many players that can't do either. Until then, I cannot see the cup coming here anytime soon.

I garauntee you that claim wouldn’t hold up to investigation

 

[Fogelhund]

Point taken. It was a response given about a particular player. While Kampf plays shut down, and kills penalties, very good I must say. Stanley cup winning teams time and again have rosters where every player can play shut down hockey and PK when needed.
On this team we have too many players that can't do either. Until then, I cannot see the cup coming here anytime soon.

I don't understand this viewpoint... team had the 6th best GA in the playoffs... but only scored two goals a game in the second round. It wasn't a defensive, or lack of shutdown that killed us... it was a lack of scoring, and specifically a lack of scoring by the top guys. One 5v5 goal by the top four, in the second round. We have guys who can PK... and we had the same PK% as the cup winners in the playoffs, and were much better than them in the regular season. We have been a top defensive team for some time... when are people going to digest and understand that?

It was a lack of goal scoring.. and that's it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I think a lot of the "Nylander is bad on defence" is a false narrative. Both Willy and Mitch had better defensive numbers playing with Matty, and worse ones playing with JT.

Look at giveaways and takeaways per 60 for the top forwards.

Marner 3.31 3.66
Nylander 1.46 2.76
Matthews 2.19 2.71
Bunting 1.76 2.26
Tavares 2.29 1.95

Mitch with the most giveaways, some of which can be attributed to having the puck a lot. But second worst is JT, who doesn't carry it much.

Fewest giveaways is Willy, who is the other big puck carrier. Second fewest is Bunting, who has the least possession.

Mitch and Willy with the most takeaways, and JT with the fewest - even worse than Bunting.

Tavares is the biggest defensive liability - not Nylander.

 

[TakeTheBody]

Love Willy not sure i want to see him as center after CBJ series. I think Marner could and should play center and live up to that #93 he wore as a junior. And if he plays it well, can't wait for negotiations.

 

[BraveCanadian]

He was shifted to the wing because Dubas thought overpaying Tavares was the way to the Cup.

Based on Nylanders play his entire career, I’m gonna press X to doubt on that one.

He was shifted because he’s a floater, and I don’t understand how anyone could argue that.

It will take a big shift in his work ethic to be successful at center, but he may just step it up this year to cash in when he walks at the end of the season..

 

[Twowingcantfly]

I don't understand this viewpoint... team had the 6th best GA in the playoffs... but only scored two goals a game in the second round. It wasn't a defensive, or lack of shutdown that killed us... it was a lack of scoring, and specifically a lack of scoring by the top guys. One 5v5 goal by the top four, in the second round. We have guys who can PK... and we had the same PK% as the cup winners in the playoffs, and were much better than them in the regular season. We have been a top defensive team for some time... when are people going to digest and understand that?

It was a lack of goal scoring.. and that's it.

The point is: Every player is skilled enough to do so if need be. Our team have been shut down every round save one (TB in 23)in recent memory. Montreal, Columbus, TB, Boston, Florida, have all taken turns shutting us down come playoff hockey. The skill set of all those teams were so good, they could play any role. I remember Babcock's comment when we signed Spezza. "Can he kill penalties" It wasn't a shot at Spezza. It was his way of lamenting, ( we have so may players that cannot shut down or PK, and we go sign another). You don't want to hear how I feel about our lousy PP come playoff time..

 

[Twowingcantfly]

I garauntee you that claim wouldn’t hold up to investigation

It has a good chance I think

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

 

[Martin Skoula]

I suppose when you put it in that context your probably not wrong, not sure if the more physical aspect of playing center would foster an environment where Willie disappears more?

The physical element of carrying the puck to high traffic areas, Nylander is easily #1 on the team imo. The more visible stuff like board battles he’s good at but less important for a center when he can now be second man in to fish the puck out of a scrum. The main gap is shifting from pressuring the point to working down low in our zone but that also seems like the easiest part of the job to mix and match depending on who his wingers are.

He’s our second safest guy with the puck behind Matthews, I have no concerns with him in the D-Zone once we have possession, NZ or OZ as a C, the only question mark is our D-zone when we don’t have possession.

 

[banks]

No problem with trying it out in pre-season for a bit. What problem could it cause?

I think this might actually be a first step toward Tavares eventually moving over to the wing. Easier to make JT a winger if you still have Matthews-Nylander at C.

 

[ZEBROA]

With this experiment going on i realy dont think he will get 40G. Maby 30+ but be better in D zone. On other hand this might not hold for more then the preseason. I got a feeling Keefe is in this halfharted.

 

[A1LeafNation]

He plays #1C for Sweden.

Wonder why Marner has never been looked at for C. They try him on D, but as a Selke finalist not C?

 

[crump]

at 1:08 you can see he been working on that D skills like forever. You can further see his sneaking skills at 2:15. And at 3:19 the media training.

I bet he still has that laugh at 3:24 when joking in the dressing room.

 

[Niagara Bill]

The physical element of carrying the puck to high traffic areas, Nylander is easily #1 on the team imo. The more visible stuff like board battles he’s good at but less important for a center when he can now be second man in to fish the puck out of a scrum. The main gap is shifting from pressuring the point to working down low in our zone but that also seems like the easiest part of the job to mix and match depending on who his wingers are.

He’s our second safest guy with the puck behind Matthews, I have no concerns with him in the D-Zone once we have possession, NZ or OZ as a C, the only question mark is our D-zone when we don’t have possession.

My biggest concern is WN forces dmen to retreat fast, he often gets behind them, he often gets breakout passes behind them, they fear him, now his butt will be 10 feet in front of his net or behind it.
Are we going to see more of those basketball back passes like we do with Mitchy and AM.

 

[BertCorbeau]

If Nylander is going to move to centre it needs to be tried now with some runway through the early months of the season.

Personally I think he has the ability to, and I don’t think his defense is made out as bad as it is here.

That being said you can position him for success by putting speedy two way wingers with him that have some tenacity in their game. I’m just not sure the Leafs have that for him right now.

Maybe Lafferty.. Bertuzzi and Knies. Maybe Jarnkrok but he’s not too gritty.

Domi isn’t strong Enough defensively.

 

[thusk]

My biggest concern is WN forces dmen to retreat fast, he often gets behind them, he often gets breakout passes behind them, they fear him, now his butt will be 10 feet in front of his net or behind it.
Are we going to see more of those basketball back passes like we do with Mitchy and AM.

Yes nylander cheating for the offensive... cheating in regular season, thats will work a lot... cheating in playoff, you will hurt your team more than help and in playoff, nylander had 1 only goal in his last 21 playoff game. How much WN really affecting d come playoff?

To go far on playoff, its starting by playing def first and attack second... its how vegas won, how tampa or colorado won, how chicago pittsbutgh won 3...

Yes maybe unstead of finishing with 85-90 points he will finish at 70-75 in regular season but if its can helping exemple as a team to reduce 3,2 GAA by game to 2,6-2,7 in playoff without affecting the team offensivly, it will be a team win all the way for the leafs.

I just dont understand all people wanting to change thing for playoff but doesn't want to change anything of the way leafs playing in regular season...