Player Discussion Nylander After the Contract

[capfit9]

The incompetence of Leafs management continues…. & only one person has been here to oversee all of it. SHANAHAN.

 

[Stephen]

He had a dip in early January but happy to see he’s back to his early season form now.

 

[Donnie740]

I have been consistent saying that you cannot win with both Marner and Nylander. Pick the one you like more and move the other one for a great return. I have actually gone back and forth on which one I’d keep, but always known one has to go in order to build a better balanced team.

It’s not an attack on either player. It’s just the reality of team building in a cap era. Two high paid players at the least important position is just bad asset management.

Don’t get too hung up on positional value, my friend - - this isn’t fantasy hockey or NHL’24 video game.

Let’s be honest here - - Nylander might play on the “second line” but he’s a first line player in every sense of talent and production.

Domi has played very well as the second line C and he’s only getting $3M. If the 2C and 2RW are being paid a combined $10M, does it really matter which one gets $7M and which one gets $3M?

I realize there’s a lot of people who despise Nylander because of his hair, his wardrobe and his easy going demeanour with the media shills, but the guy has more talent and more production that all but a handful of players in the NHL.

 

[Scion]

It's a joke that EP is making 100k more. The Leafs have got to start putting their foot down man, f***...

 

[capfit9]

It's a joke that EP is making 100k more. The Leafs have got to start putting their foot down man, f***...

Won’t happen as long as Shanahan is leading the charge, he’s bilked MLSE for over 50 million & he knows keeping those guys around will continue that gravy train for him

 

[ULF_55]

Robertson-Novak-Nylander

Hopefully not the Robertson that played the last game. That was brutal.

 

[Menzinger]

Petey signing basically the same contract as Willie (8x$11.6 vs. 8x$11.5), while being 2 years younger (makes the 8 year term better) and a significantly better player does show you how hard Willie got paid.

I’d still rather have Willie on this deal than not have him at all, he’s a great player, and as a pending UFA he had all the power. But yeah, he took us to the cleaners.

Not that I want to wade back into the whole contract comparison discussions (we'll have plenty of that this offseason with Marner lol),

BUT the one RFA year on Pettersons new deal does matter. If he was getting purely ufa years his aav would have likely been 12 or higher.

 

[Stephen]

It's a joke that EP is making 100k more. The Leafs have got to start putting their foot down man, f***...

Right at this very moment, William Nylander is also outscoring Elias Pettersson 82 points to 75 with 3 more goals and a PPG average of 1.39 to 1.21.

Yeah, Pettersson is playing the more key position and the better player, but the gap between the two contractually and quality wise is not significant.

What's important is other teams are signing their guys in the $11 million plus range now and that will start distorting the market. We've been living in that salary cap world for a long time, but the more other teams have to adjust the more downward pressure gets applied to the middle class and cheap tier. I think that's good for us and levels out the playing field.

 

[capfit9]

Right at this very moment, William Nylander is also outscoring Elias Pettersson 82 points to 75 with 3 more goals and a PPG average of 1.39 to 1.21.

Yeah, Pettersson is playing the more key position and the better player, but the gap between the two contractually and quality wise is not significant.

What's important is other teams are signing their guys in the $11 million plus range now and that will start distorting the market. We've been living in that salary cap world for a long time, but the more other teams have to adjust the more downward pressure gets applied to the middle class and cheap tier. I think that's good for us and levels out the playing field.

Except Petterson is 2 years younger and has already had a 100 point season and is on pace for another 100 point this year, 2 year difference on a 8 year contract is a big deal

 

[Stephen]

Except Petterson is 2 years younger and has already had a 100 point season and is on pace for another 100 point this year, 2 year difference on a 8 year contract is a big deal

That’s why EP’s a better player. But from today onwards Nylander is also on track for 100+ points and that’s what we’re paying for. Not past performance.

 

[Menzinger]

That’s why EP’s a better player. But from today onwards Nylander is also on track for 100+ points and that’s what we’re paying for. Not past performance.

The luck of the timing of contracts is always an such a major factor. The Avs got to have MacKinnon on a ridiculous rfa deal because he hadn't broken out yet. The Leafs unfortunately havent had the stars align on that just yet.

 

[Stephen]

The luck of the timing of contracts is always an such a major factor. The Avs got to have MacKinnon on a ridiculous rfa deal because he hadn't broken out yet. The Leafs unfortunately havent had the stars align on that just yet.

Avs will get crunched pretty hard when Mikko Rantanen comes up. If Landeskog comes back in any shape as a diminished player they are going to feel it just like us.

 

[Scion]

Right at this very moment, William Nylander is also outscoring Elias Pettersson 82 points to 75 with 3 more goals and a PPG average of 1.39 to 1.21.

Yeah, Pettersson is playing the more key position and the better player, but the gap between the two contractually and quality wise is not significant.

What's important is other teams are signing their guys in the $11 million plus range now and that will start distorting the market. We've been living in that salary cap world for a long time, but the more other teams have to adjust the more downward pressure gets applied to the middle class and cheap tier. I think that's good for us and levels out the playing field.

EP is two years younger, plays a more premium position, is the superior defensive player and has a better ppg average than Nylander over his career and is on pace for his second 100 point season at 25.

I disagree with your second point as well. If other teams best players continue to take a bit less to help their team while our best players fight for every penny we will continue to be at a competitive disadvantage. EP was supposed to command between 12-13M and set a new standard for star players that made the Nylander contract more palatable. This does the opposite. It's going to be ridiculous when we pay Marner 1M more than EP in the summer.

 

[Legion34]

Except Petterson is 2 years younger and has already had a 100 point season and is on pace for another 100 point this year, 2 year difference on a 8 year contract is a big deal

Nylander has outscored EP over the past 3 years.

 

[capfit9]

Nylander has outscored EP over the past 3 years.

Age 24-22:
Petterson GP186 G81 A110 P191 PPG1.03
Age 24-22:
Nylander GP173 G55 A73 P128 PPG0.74

Not even close.

 

[Legion34]

Age 24-22:
Petterson GP186 G81 A110 P191 PPG1.03
Age 24-22:
Nylander GP173 G55 A73 P128 PPG0.74

Not even close.

And look at the scoring differences in those years? EPs 100 pts was when McDavid scored 150.

Year by year over the same last 3 years in the same scoring rate. Willy has outscored him.
He is 2 years older.

I don’t know of much data on 8 year deals at 25 being worth more than at 27?

What I do know is that they have scored at very similar rates in the past bunch of years.
You may prefer ep as a player. I would probably trade them. But contract values are largely based on points and counting stats.

 

[capfit9]

And look at the scoring differences in those years? EPs 100 pts was when McDavid scored 150.

Year by year over the same last 3 years in the same scoring rate. Willy has outscored him.
He is 2 years older.

I don’t know of much data on 8 year deals at 25 being worth more than at 27?

What I do know is that they have scored at very similar rates in the past bunch of years.
You may prefer ep as a player. I would probably trade them. But contract values are largely based on points and counting stats.

McDavid carries the offense for his team, EP carries the offense for his team, Willy does not and the 200 ft game is no contest.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Nylander just needs to continue be hard on the puck, defensively responsible and raise his game for the playoffs. With this group it is all about the playoffs.

 

[Legion34]

McDavid carries the offense for his team, EP carries the offense for his team, Willy does not and the 200 ft game is no contest.

????
This isn’t about who is the better player. It’s about historical contract comparables which are based on counting stats. Awards and years of service primarily.

They have similar counting stats. Willy has more points this year and has more service.

Players defensive game rarely translates to dollars. Otherwise no one would be comparing Marners salary to tkachuk and Rantanen

 

[arso40]

McDavid carries the offense for his team, EP carries the offense for his team, Willy does not and the 200 ft game is no contest.

I would argue ep does not carry the offense for his team Hughes ànd Miller do Petterson got put on the wing this year on the super line and when in the middle though a great 2 way center wasnt producing at an elite level would even argue his line was the second line

 

[Stephen]

And look at the scoring differences in those years? EPs 100 pts was when McDavid scored 150.

Year by year over the same last 3 years in the same scoring rate. Willy has outscored him.
He is 2 years older.

I don’t know of much data on 8 year deals at 25 being worth more than at 27?

What I do know is that they have scored at very similar rates in the past bunch of years.
You may prefer ep as a player. I would probably trade them. But contract values are largely based on points and counting stats.

Also, Elias Pettersson teams have been irrelevant since 2018-19 when he broke into the league. As their franchise center, they never made the playoffs in a normal non-Covid format, have always been talented but completely dysfunctional and there's never been a direct relationship between Pettersson's production and team success until this year...

Yeah, I'd take Pettersson over Nylander from an academic POV, the argumentation for position, age, past performance are rational. But also don't act like Pettersson is on par with Nathan Mackinnon and the Canucks got the steal of a lifetime while Toronto got fleeced.

Like Nylander, they paid full retail for a luxury item.

 

[capfit9]

????
This isn’t about who is the better player. It’s about historical contract comparables which are based on counting stats. Awards and years of service primarily.

They have similar counting stats. Willy has more points this year and has more service.

Players defensive game rarely translates to dollars. Otherwise no one would be comparing Marners salary to tkachuk and Rantanen

If that’s the case then they still overpaid considering Pastrnak’s contract

 

[arso40]

Also, Elias Pettersson teams have been irrelevant since 2018-19 when he broke into the league. As their franchise center, they never made the playoffs in a normal non-Covid format, have always been talented but completely dysfunctional and there's never been a direct relationship between Pettersson's production and team success until this year...

Yeah, I'd take Pettersson over Nylander from an academic POV, the argumentation for position, age, past performance are rational. But also don't act like Pettersson is on par with Nathan Mackinnon and the Canucks got the steal of a lifetime while Toronto got fleeced.

Like Nylander, they paid full retail for a luxury item.

Van has a legit top 6 a legit top pair and a legit goalie we shall see how the playoffs go for them we have a more balanced team with the offense and defense and suspect goaltending I'll revisit this when the playoffs are over I'm bias but I'm taking Willie though I know ep is the better 2 way player and younger

 

[Legion34]

If that’s the case then they still overpaid considering Pastrnak’s contract

1.) the argument was about Canadian taxes being somehow irrelevant based on taxes. Boston pays less tax

2.) even with the tax advantages probably yes. Pastas contract is more than likely better. By how much I would have to look at the numbers when I’m home

Boston pays 44% taxes Toronto pays 53.

The cap friendly calendar says pasta would be 1 million less in net income per year.

He also took 13.5% of the cap
Willy took 13.1%

Pasta has been a much better player. 60 goals. Rocket so I would say he is still worth more than Willy for sure.

 

[capfit9]

1.) the argument was about Canadian taxes being somehow irrelevant based on taxes. Boston pays less tax

2.) even with the tax advantages probably yes. Pastas contract is more than likely better. By how much I would have to look at the numbers when I’m home

Also consider that Nylander is getting $69M SB as opposed to $47M SB for EP & $26.5M SB for Pasta.