Nylander’s Playoff Breakout

[Notsince67]

Can't blame him. I have been told Marner is the only player who can pass and is better then McDavid.

You really dont have to lie if you have a coherent relevant point to make. Put up proof or shut up.

 

[Notsince67]

Thats part of the problem, Marner and Matthews should not be able to be matched against the best line in the league, they should be the best line in the league. But i put that mostly on Keefe for not doing anything to help them. And you give Nylander way to little credit this playoff. He might suck next time. This time he was more present, in the now, then Marner. But as i said i blame Keefe for not using any tools in the toolbox. Maby a tool cant use tools...

Let's put it in perspective. 5x5, there is a 2 point difference between Marner and Nylander but only after Nylander scored at greater than 3 times his expected goals. Nobody does that consistently.
Nylander was great on the PP, but holy moses, the 2 arent close in skill.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Let's put it in perspective. 5x5, there is a 2 point difference between Marner and Nylander but only after Nylander scored at greater than 3 times his expected goals. Nobody does that consistently.
Nylander was great on the PP, but holy moses, the 2 arent close in skill.

Really, that's interesting. Who do you think is more skilled and how are you measuring their skill?

 

[IPS]

Let's put it in perspective. 5x5, there is a 2 point difference between Marner and Nylander but only after Nylander scored at greater than 3 times his expected goals. Nobody does that consistently.
Nylander was great on the PP, but holy moses, the 2 arent close in skill.

And if Marner could have made up that 2 point difference in games 5, 6 or 7 maybe we walk away with the series

Here I am just stuck appreciating that one of the core-4 actually exceeded expectations in a f***ing playoff series while 34 and 16 basked in their incredible expected goals but only combined for 1 actual goal.

 

[Beyonder91]

Lol people will do anything to discredit Nylander. Imagine that, Lehkonen-Denault-Gallagher is now the best line in hockey

You people are too funny.

Marchand-Bergeron-Pastrnak

 

[Nylander88]

Look again. I said 5x5 because line combination discussions were what was being talked about. Not powerplay.

I read it just fine...but you can't get a + on the powerplay...so I'm confused. Same way you can't get a - on the penalty kill.

 

[Stephen]

Let's put it in perspective. 5x5, there is a 2 point difference between Marner and Nylander but only after Nylander scored at greater than 3 times his expected goals. Nobody does that consistently.
Nylander was great on the PP, but holy moses, the 2 arent close in skill.

There's a substantial delta between Mitch Marner and William Nylander in terms of offensive production, but their skillsets are so different I wouldn't sign off on one being more "skilled than the other" since they don't even generate the same way.

Marner has the endurance of a long distance runner, but William Nylander evolved into a very strong player who has that lower center of gravity and has more of a gym rat athleticism that is completely absent in Marner.

Marner has fantastic edge work and relatively poor balance, but Nylander has better balance, explosiveness and separation speed.

Marner has better vision and is famous for making unexpected and creative plays with the puck few can but can bobble the puck on routine plays. Nylander's puckhandling is unconsciously smooth and has the ability to one hand rag the puck a la Peter Forsberg.

Marner has a below average arsenal of shots relative to his 'skill reputation.' Nylander can wire it with his bullet wrister and has an underrated clapper.

 

[Notsince67]

Really, that's interesting. Who do you think is more skilled and how are you measuring their skill?

Good talk devils advocate. Get serious.

 

[Notsince67]

And if Marner could have made up that 2 point difference in games 5, 6 or 7 maybe we walk away with the series

Here I am just stuck appreciating that one of the core-4 actually exceeded expectations in a f***ing playoff series while 34 and 16 basked in their incredible expected goals but only combined for 1 actual goal.

Appreciate away. Nobody is stopping you.

 

[Notsince67]

There's a substantial delta between Mitch Marner and William Nylander in terms of offensive production, but their skillsets are so different I wouldn't sign off on one being more "skilled than the other" since they don't even generate the same way.

Marner has the endurance of a long distance runner, but William Nylander evolved into a very strong player who has that lower center of gravity and has more of a gym rat athleticism that is completely absent in Marner.

Marner has fantastic edge work and relatively poor balance, but Nylander has better balance, explosiveness and separation speed.

Marner has better vision and is famous for making unexpected and creative plays with the puck few can but can bobble the puck on routine plays. Nylander's puckhandling is unconsciously smooth and has the ability to one hand rag the puck a la Peter Forsberg.

Marner has a below average arsenal of shots relative to his 'skill reputation.' Nylander can wire it with his bullet wrister and has an underrated clapper.

Now do Tom Brady in Football.

 

[Stephen]

Now do Tom Brady in Football.

Win me six Stanley Cups first.

 

[Notsince67]

I read it just fine...but you can't get a + on the powerplay...so I'm confused. Same way you can't get a - on the penalty kill.

Ok.....? Is that point finished or should I just shout out the capital of Portgal as a response and pretend it it relevant as well.

 

[Aashir]

Let's put it in perspective. 5x5, there is a 2 point difference between Marner and Nylander but only after Nylander scored at greater than 3 times his expected goals. Nobody does that consistently.
Nylander was great on the PP, but holy moses, the 2 arent close in skill.

He had 1 PPP and it was his goal in game 3. This dumb narrative you have makes no sense, they both had 1 power play point. And no one could care less about expected goals rn. Last year was supposed to be the outlier, but surprisingly it happened again. Marner needs to produce, and you don’t seem to get that, don’t deflect to “defence” because he played against a rusty Gallagher, a offensive black hole in danault and third guy who was sometimes Tatar and sometimes lehkonen, both were trash. Marner didn’t play defence at an elite level, he didn’t even vs proper 1st line talent. Just stop

 

[Cpt Maple Leaf]

I would ask, "Why didn't the rest of the lineup have stones?" Willy has shown heart.

 

[ZEBROA]

Let's put it in perspective. 5x5, there is a 2 point difference between Marner and Nylander but only after Nylander scored at greater than 3 times his expected goals. Nobody does that consistently.
Nylander was great on the PP, but holy moses, the 2 arent close in skill.

Did i say anything about skill? I expect Marner to be second best on the team with that salery. I expect him to outperform Nylander most playoff games every year. Nylander played better then expected Marner did not.

I dont care if Nylander is the worst player on the team regular season, if he continues to play like this in the playoffs. I dont think i he will but if this happen again next year, then i will value Nylander more then Marner going forward. Not there yet.

 

[Notsince67]

He had 1 PPP and it was his goal in game 3. This dumb narrative you have makes no sense, they both had 1 power play point. And no one could care less about expected goals rn. Last year was supposed to be the outlier, but surprisingly it happened again. Marner needs to produce, and you don’t seem to get that, don’t deflect to “defence” because he played against a rusty Gallagher, a offensive black hole in danault and third guy who was sometimes Tatar and sometimes lehkonen, both were trash. Marner didn’t play defence at an elite level, he didn’t even vs proper 1st line talent. Just stop

You understand expected goals is probabilistic right?

 

[Nylander88]

Ok.....? Is that point finished or should I just shout out the capital of Portgal as a response and pretend it it relevant as well.

You're talking about Nylander and Marner's +/- statistics at 5x5 in the playoffs and in their playoff careers. I said Nylander's was better this year, as well as in their careers...so I don't know how that helps your Marner arguments.
Then you told me to read the it's at 5x5 and not the powerplay. Well thanks Einstein, +/- is a stat that doesn't couldn't powerplay production haha so why is saying not including the powerplay relevant in any way? Is attempting to be a smart*** your way of deflecting from the fact you didn't know how plus/minus stats were kept? It's okay man, people make mistakes. But we never stopped talking about +/-...you seem to think the stat has something to do with the powerplay. So everything is relevant. Not sure how you got onto Portugal but I feel like I'm not the first person having these issues with you from doing a quick scan haha

 

[hullsy47]

I would ask, "Why didn't the rest of the lineup have stones?" Willy has shown heart.

Keefe grout coached period .Nylander need to be on tye the first pp all series

Id fire him today if I could

 

[Notsince67]

You're talking about Nylander and Marner's +/- statistics at 5x5 in the playoffs and in their playoff careers. I said Nylander's was better this year, as well as in their careers...so I don't know how that helps your Marner arguments.
Then you told me to read the it's at 5x5 and not the powerplay. Well thanks Einstein, +/- is a stat that doesn't couldn't powerplay production haha so why is saying not including the powerplay relevant in any way? Is attempting to be a smart*** your way of deflecting from the fact you didn't know how plus/minus stats were kept? It's okay man, people make mistakes. But we never stopped talking about +/-...you seem to think the stat has something to do with the powerplay. So everything is relevant. Not sure how you got onto Portugal but I feel like I'm not the first person having these issues with you from doing a quick scan haha

I wasn't conflating them. I was just saying will seem to play the PP well. When talking about Qoc though, you always talk about even strength. Also, plus minus is often not even considered useful because the lower qoc typically get the higher plus. Not in this case it seems. That should tell you something

 

[Nylander88]

Look again. I said 5x5 because line combination discussions were what was being talked about. Not powerplay.

I read it just fine...but you can't get a + on the powerplay...so I'm confused. Same way you can't get a - on the penalty kill.

Ok.....? Is that point finished or should I just shout out the capital of Portgal as a response and pretend it it relevant as well.

Hope this helps buddy. You clearly didn't understand the +/- statistic that you were arguing, as you referred to the 5v5 and not powerplay. Like no kidding haha that's how it's tracked Mr. Obvious. I was genuinely trying to be helpful cuz it seemed (and has become clear) you didn't understand that. How do you argue Nylander vs Marner's +/- then pretend Marner's playoff +/- is better at 5v5 but Nylander's is better overall because it was somehow helped by the powerplay?...when it's a stat that is tracked at 5v5 (unless you score a shorthanded goal or get scored on while on the PP). But sure, shout out the capital of Portugal if if helps deflect from your embarrassment lol

 

[Nylander88]

I wasn't conflating them. I was just saying will seem to play the PP well. When talking about Qoc though, you always talk about even strength. Also, plus minus is often not even considered useful because the lower qoc typically get the higher plus. Not in this case it seems. That should tell you something

You have me confused with someone else. Look back. We never stopped talking about plus/minus. You asked another poster if he was talking points or +/- and to go ahead and guess who's was better....but Marner's was worse. I've never gotten off of the topic of +/- with you. So why are you talking about quality of competition with me now? What's that have to do with it? Should I shout out the capital of New Brunswick?lol

 

[Notsince67]

You have me confused with someone else. Look back. We never stopped talking about plus/minus. You asked another poster if he was talking points or +/- and to go ahead and guess who's was better....but Marner's was worse. I've never gotten off of the topic of +/- with you. So why are you talking about quality of competition with me now? What's that have to do with it? Should I shout out the capital of New Brunswick?lol

I never talk about plus minus. I dont know what you are talking about

 

[Notsince67]

Hope this helps buddy. You clearly didn't understand the +/- statistic that you were arguing, as you referred to the 5v5 and not powerplay. Like no kidding haha that's how it's tracked Mr. Obvious. I was genuinely trying to be helpful cuz it seemed (and has become clear) you didn't understand that. How do you argue Nylander vs Marner's +/- then pretend Marner's playoff +/- is better at 5v5 but Nylander's is better overall because it was somehow helped by the powerplay?...when it's a stat that is tracked at 5v5 (unless you score a shorthanded goal or get scored on while on the PP). But sure, shout out the capital of Portugal if if helps deflect from your embarrassment lol

Dide. Goal differential matters in hockey. I still haven't a clue wht you are talking about.

 

[Nylander88]

You mean point differential or +-?
Glad you asked. 5x5, Nylander was a plus 1 with weaker competition. You want to pick an over or under on whether Marner did better?
Here, I'll make it simple. Marners line only allowed 1 ga in 7 games.

I never talk about plus minus. I dont know what you are talking about

Is this not you?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Good talk devils advocate. Get serious.

It was a serious question, is there some particular reason you don't want to answer?

Seriously ... in very general terms, I think both players are very skilled but their skill sets are also so different that they're difficult to compare. In general terms I'd say that Nylander has the better physical tools, faster, more explosive, stronger and has a much better shot and so on. Marner on the other hand is more of a finesse player, also an excellent skater but in a different way (the much talked about edge work and so on) and he's always had a rep for being an excellent passer and having great hockey sense. You could simplify it and say he's a smart player and that more than makes up for what he lacks in physical skills I guess, though I have to admit that after that taking one of the dumbest penalties in modern Maple Leaf history at a crucial time in the playoffs, his reputation as a super smart player has taken a pretty big hit.

You understand expected goals is probabilistic right?

Over a small sample size (ie. one playoff series) it's a pretty useless stat. I watched all the games as I always do and I'm more than comfortable saying that Nylander played much better than Marner in the playoffs.

What about you, how would you rate the play of these two players against MTL? And BTW, I'm well aware that the capital of Portugal is Lisbon so you can stick to the subject, thanks.