Confirmed with Link: [NSH/TOR] Franson and Santorelli for Leipsic, Jokinen, 2015 1st

[Persona5]

The knock on franson has always been about foot speed. My feelings about the trade are going to hinge on whether franson's and santo's games have improved. All reports suggest that they have, but I need to see it for myself. Leipsic was going to be a decent nhl er in my opinion---- a little like Jordan tootoo in disposition but with much more ability to score. I thought he was going to end up as a very high quality 3rd liner.

They both have improved greatly since they left here. When the rumors started I started looking for Leafs game footage to watch as much as I could from this season. Santorelli and Winnik are two of the Leafs forwards that play consistantly hard and well every game. Santorelli will fit perfectly on our 3rd line and while he isn't going to drive a line on his own he will without question be an improvement over what we have right now.

As for Franson he has improve a ton. He is more physical and better with his positioning. There is no question he will help with our PP. His offensive skill set has really always been there and his shot is stronger now.

The best part about all of this is we are not handcuffed to any of these players and the motivation is there from both of them to play amazing so they can get paid. Great move by DP. This should be the perfect fit without screwing up the chemistry. Both of these guys know their way around the locker room and the city already which is a good thing.

 

[TootooTrain]

Franson actually has a one-timer now. I remember his shot being hard and accurate when he first came into the league. But he really under-utilized it. He's the same player, but more well-rounded. More physical, thinks the game a slightly quicker pace. Still has the ability to perform a bad pinch or turn the puck over, but compared to when he was playing with the preds, the positives far outweigh the negatives.

 

[adsfan]

Fiala, Arvidsson, Aberg, Watson all ahead of Leipsic in terms of development. Probably Salomaki too. Leips is a great prospect but is undersized and didn't score enough goals this season.

Santorelli provides that 3rd line scoring presence we need. Franson added makes us have the best D corps in the league by far.

I agree with your assessment. Leipsic scored a hatter in the ASG because there was no checking. I haven't seen that in the regular season games. Santorelli will make a good 3rd line center. He was getting a lot of minutes with the Leafs. I assume that Franson has improved since he left.

Milwaukee scored 5 goals yesterday without Leipsic. Fiala had 2 and Arvidsson scored a ENG from 100 feet.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Trade market for D just got thinner as Senators give Methot a 4 year/4.9 M AAV extension.

 

[drwpreds]

After taking a day to digest, I am pretty happy with the trade, and I am a little surprised there is so much negativity.

Pretty much everyone has been in agreement what our needs were- a high end forward/center, a defenseman, and an upgrade for the bottom 6.

This trade addresses 2 of those 3 needs, and we did not lose anyone off of our current roster. I get that some are disappointed we didn’t get a top line forward, but by itself, I am very happy with this trade.

I also liked Leipsic, but as many have pointed out, he is projected by many to be a third line NHL’er- if that winds up being the case then this is an excellent trade. You are never happy about giving up a first round pick but it is going to almost be a 2nd round at pick at this point.

And I don’t understand why so many seem to be judging Santorelli on the player he was back when still in Nashville and not what he is today- it is completely irrelevant what kind of player he was in Nashville- almost every Toronto fan agrees that Santorelli has been maybe their best player. He will be a fantastic third liner for us….

Even if this trade just blows up in our faces it’s not like it will set the organization back or anything like that- as a point of comparision, look at the Blues trade for Ryan Miller at the deadline last year- they gave up Halak, Stewart, a first AND third round draft pick for a guy that played 2 months for them and wasn’t resigned.

Bottom line- we are a better team today than we were on Saturday- I am happy with the trade…..

 

[nomorekids]

Franson, even when he was here, was "good" defensively. If he wasn't out of position, he typically made the right read, and used his long reach for good stickwork. The problem, and it will continue to be a problem if it's not leveraged against a good, mobile d-man(Jones, IMO), is that it takes him a while to get moving. ONce he does, he's okay because his stride is so long, but he can get caught pinching...so it's just something that everyone on the ice has to be aware of. If they play with that in mind...just as they would when say, Ellis--who isn't the fastest skater himself--is on the ice, then I think the good will far outweigh the bad.

The fact of the matter is that Bartley and Volchenkov have both been very bad for quite some time. Now, not only are they both pushed out of the lineup when Ellis gets back, it's hard to argue that Nashville doesn't have the best defensive group in the league from top to bottom. Basically six top 4 defenseman.

As for Santorelli, he's basically become a speedy swiss army knife. He's played all three forward positions for the last couple of years, plays PK, plays ES...he's an immediate upgrade to both Cullen and Beck, and keeps a guy like Gabby Bourque off the third line. If he has to play up in the top six, he's more capable of doing so than any of those three.

And as a last, truly underrated component of this trade: the Olli Jokinen era is finally at an end.

It's a good draft, so losing the first stinks...but you have to know when to go for it. Would you rather draft a prospect that *might* help you 4-5 years from now, or get two pieces--arguably the top defenseman available and one of the top forwards available--that could help you make a deep run?

Not to mention...not only did we add these pieces...we kept teams like LA and the Ducks...who were rumored to be looking at both...from adding them for themselves.

 

[gopreds19]

When Ellis gets back, does anyone think Lavy will reunite him with Ekholm on the 2nd pairing? If I remember that was where he was playing pre-injury and they were clicking pretty good.

Hoping for:

Forsberg - Ribiero - Smith
Neal - Fisher - Wilson
Santorelli - Jarnkrok - Stalberg
Bourque - Gaustad - Beck

Weber - Josi
Ellis - Ekholm
Franson - Jones

 

[NSH615]

When Ellis gets back, does anyone think Lavy will reunite him with Ekholm on the 2nd pairing? If I remember that was where he was playing pre-injury and they were clicking pretty good.

Hoping for:

Forsberg - Ribiero - Smith
Neal - Fisher - Wilson
Santorelli - Jarnkrok - Stalberg
Bourque - Gaustad - Beck

Weber - Josi
Ellis - Ekholm
Franson - Jones

Yes and no. I think they will be re-united, but on the 3rd pairing for now. However, I do think that once he gets back to form the 2nd/3rd pairings will both be a 2a/2b situation with close to even time.

 

[NSH615]

umm....How were you supposed to be used? You have nothing left.

 

[wadesworld]

When Ellis gets back, does anyone think Lavy will reunite him with Ekholm on the 2nd pairing? If I remember that was where he was playing pre-injury and they were clicking pretty good.

Hoping for:

Forsberg - Ribiero - Smith
Neal - Fisher - Wilson
Santorelli - Jarnkrok - Stalberg
Bourque - Gaustad - Beck

Weber - Josi
Ellis - Ekholm
Franson - Jones

I don't think Smith will be on the first line anymore and I think the chances of Stalberg are slim to none and slim just left town.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

I don't think Smith will be on the first line anymore and I think the chances of Stalberg are slim to none and slim just left town.

Yep. Stalberg's on waivers so I believe slim saved a seat for him.

 

[Drake744]

umm....How were you supposed to be used? You have nothing left.

I know he was largely irrelevant and underwhelming here, but in his defense he did have 43 points last year and probably didn't just randomly lose all hockey ability when signing here. I'm sure he's capable of more in some capacity.

 

[You]

Needed to be used in versus mode. With the second controller just sitting on the floor. And the goalie pulled all game.

 

[Byrddog]

I know he was largely irrelevant and underwhelming here, but in his defense he did have 43 points last year and probably didn't just randomly lose all hockey ability when signing here. I'm sure he's capable of more in some capacity.

There could well be a little truth in that. OJ has played center the majority of his NHL games. It is not hard to look at all the guys this team has played out of position over the years. If Toronto puts him at center we will know soon enough if there was anything left.

Another interesting thing I have noticed on HF would be the definition of line expectations. What I point to is that Lepsic was believed to be a 3rd liner able to put up 40 to 50 points tops. Hmmm well There has been an argument here that a player that puts up 40 to 50 was a top 6 guy. Now Santo is pacing to score 40 points plus but many think hes no better than 3rd line. I know Santo has played all forward positions that's a given but he has always been a center primarily. So is he going to play C and Jarnkrok plays wing or sits?

Now my expectations of players on each line is elevated so I will not even opine on those but the team is a lot closer this season to my expectations than they have been in a few years. When healthy the blueline is in good shape going into the playoffs barring a trade moving one. Lavi has a few games to settle out what lines hes going to run but I would be willing to bet that Ribs Neal and FF is the only line that we can predict going forward. Fish and Wilson will be the base of the 2nd but who will be with them is a jump ball right now.

 

[Flgatorguy87]

Needed to be used in versus mode. With the second controller just sitting on the floor. And the goalie pulled all game.

I laughed out loud

 

[Persona5]

There could well be a little truth in that. OJ has played center the majority of his NHL games. It is not hard to look at all the guys this team has played out of position over the years. If Toronto puts him at center we will know soon enough if there was anything left.

Another interesting thing I have noticed on HF would be the definition of line expectations. What I point to is that Lepsic was believed to be a 3rd liner able to put up 40 to 50 points tops. Hmmm well There has been an argument here that a player that puts up 40 to 50 was a top 6 guy. Now Santo is pacing to score 40 points plus but many think hes no better than 3rd line. I know Santo has played all forward positions that's a given but he has always been a center primarily. So is he going to play C and Jarnkrok plays wing or sits?

Now my expectations of players on each line is elevated so I will not even opine on those but the team is a lot closer this season to my expectations than they have been in a few years. When healthy the blueline is in good shape going into the playoffs barring a trade moving one. Lavi has a few games to settle out what lines hes going to run but I would be willing to bet that Ribs Neal and FF is the only line that we can predict going forward. Fish and Wilson will be the base of the 2nd but who will be with them is a jump ball right now.

Ribs, Neal, and Forsberg have not been on a line in a while. Not sure PL will put that many eggs in one basket at this point. Right now Wilson, Forsberg, and Fisher can drive a line on their own. I think PL may keep them split for now and spread the scoring out a bit. I personally would love to see this tuesday.

Wilson/Ribs/Neal
Cullen/Fisher/Smith
Forsberg/Santo/Jarnkrok
Nystrom/Gaustad/Beck

 

[Oan]

umm....How were you supposed to be used? You have nothing left.

I know he was largely irrelevant and underwhelming here, but in his defense he did have 43 points last year and probably didn't just randomly lose all hockey ability when signing here. I'm sure he's capable of more in some capacity.

Jokinen elaborates on this more in a Finnish interview. Basically he says that when he signed here he believed that he signed to play center, as he had played his entire career prior. But he was never used as a center in Nashville, correct? And that transition from center -> wing just didn't work out for him. After all, he put up respectable 43 points just last season, while playing center.

 

[Byrddog]

Ribs, Neal, and Forsberg have not been on a line in a while. Not sure PL will put that many eggs in one basket at this point. Right now Wilson, Forsberg, and Fisher can drive a line on their own. I think PL may keep them split for now and spread the scoring out a bit. I personally would love to see this tuesday.

Wilson/Ribs/Neal
Cullen/Fisher/Smith
Forsberg/Santo/Jarnkrok
Nystrom/Gaustad/Beck

I like your thinkin about trying Jarnkrok on the wing and I hope that happens but the experiment of moving FF out of the top 6 makes no sense and I do not think he will go with it. I know im beating a deadhorse here but I think the Jumble was to remove Smith from that top line and see if he could get him going somewhere. But how can he split Fish and Wilson up? They have been our best players for 6 weeks. I continue to believe that the line jumble was to evaluate where Santo was gonna fit in and to cattle prob Smith which in turn got production out of Cullen. If there is a game tomorrow night we will see more of the jumble I think, it will however be more dangerous against the Sharks. It would be great if Santo and Cody could get there work VISA tomorrow for the game but im not sure that will happen. Im pretty sure those work VISA's come out of NY and there getting crappy weather too. So im willing to bet that the Gov't offices will be closed another day.

 

[glenngineer]

I like your thinkin about trying Jarnkrok on the wing and I hope that happens but the experiment of moving FF out of the top 6 makes no sense and I do not think he will go with it. I know im beating a deadhorse here but I think the Jumble was to remove Smith from that top line and see if he could get him going somewhere. But how can he split Fish and Wilson up? They have been our best players for 6 weeks. I continue to believe that the line jumble was to evaluate where Santo was gonna fit in and to cattle prob Smith which in turn got production out of Cullen. If there is a game tomorrow night we will see more of the jumble I think, it will however be more dangerous against the Sharks. It would be great if Santo and Cody could get there work VISA tomorrow for the game but im not sure that will happen. Im pretty sure those work VISA's come out of NY and there getting crappy weather too. So im willing to bet that the Gov't offices will be closed another day.

The three top lines worked the other night. Wilson looked great with Neal and Ribs. Smith and Cullen got going again while Fisher anchored the line and got some good looks as well. Forsberg dominated multiple shifts while Jarnkrok and Beck did well with him. I think Santorelli slides Beck back to the fourth line and that a Forsberg/Jarnkrok/Santo line will give teams fits with their speed and forecheck. It will also give Lavy the opportunity to sit Nystrom which I'm all for but I doubt he does. So Beck or Bourque probably sits and to me that's a shame because I think they're both better players than Nystrom is and fill the fourth line role better and allows puck possession on all four lines. Nystrom and Gaustad are an offensive black hole to me.

 

[alexmanu]

The three top lines worked the other night. Wilson looked great with Neal and Ribs. Smith and Cullen got going again while Fisher anchored the line and got some good looks as well. Forsberg dominated multiple shifts while Jarnkrok and Beck did well with him. I think Santorelli slides Beck back to the fourth line and that a Forsberg/Jarnkrok/Santo line will give teams fits with their speed and forecheck. It will also give Lavy the opportunity to sit Nystrom which I'm all for but I doubt he does. So Beck or Bourque probably sits and to me that's a shame because I think they're both better players than Nystrom is and fill the fourth line role better and allows puck possession on all four lines. Nystrom and Gaustad are an offensive black hole to me.

Forsberg is still on the #1 PP unit where he gets a lot of his scoring looks with Ribs and co.

 

[kypredsfan]

Lavy has gone on record as trying Santo as a wing at first so we can assume Jarnkrok stays put at center.

 

[Armourboy]

Ollie may have been used improperly, however I think it has less to do with that and more to do with the system. Frankly, I don't think he could keep up with it. I think it requires a tempo he just doesn't have anymore, and while playing on the wing may have thrown him for a loop, I think they style of play just didn't suit his game.

I wish him well, but you can't play forever. Eventually mother nature does catch up. At least for him he will have a chance to prove that in Toronto and see if he can continue playing.

 

[deanwormer]

There could well be a little truth in that. OJ has played center the majority of his NHL games. It is not hard to look at all the guys this team has played out of position over the years. If Toronto puts him at center we will know soon enough if there was anything left.

Another interesting thing I have noticed on HF would be the definition of line expectations. What I point to is that Lepsic was believed to be a 3rd liner able to put up 40 to 50 points tops. Hmmm well There has been an argument here that a player that puts up 40 to 50 was a top 6 guy. Now Santo is pacing to score 40 points plus but many think hes no better than 3rd line. I know Santo has played all forward positions that's a given but he has always been a center primarily. So is he going to play C and Jarnkrok plays wing or sits?

Now my expectations of players on each line is elevated so I will not even opine on those but the team is a lot closer this season to my expectations than they have been in a few years. When healthy the blueline is in good shape going into the playoffs barring a trade moving one. Lavi has a few games to settle out what lines hes going to run but I would be willing to bet that Ribs Neal and FF is the only line that we can predict going forward. Fish and Wilson will be the base of the 2nd but who will be with them is a jump ball right now.

If you JUST consider scoring..... 29 points for a RW puts you around 37. For a LW it puts you around 30. Santorelli and Smith both have 29 points. Pretty solid 2nd line numbers, although it would put you 59 as a C (and Fish falls behind them a couple spots, although he did get a late start). Regardless of expectations, as far as league performance goes this year, we got 7 guys that are clearly in "top 6" in offensive performance.

I think this gives Lavy a little time to play around with combinations and matchups to see what works, but we could certainly create some situations where we open up a couple of very capable scorers against teams weaker lines without hurting ourselves on the other lines.

 

[deanwormer]

Ollie may have been used improperly, however I think it has less to do with that and more to do with the system. Frankly, I don't think he could keep up with it. I think it requires a tempo he just doesn't have anymore, and while playing on the wing may have thrown him for a loop, I think they style of play just didn't suit his game.

I wish him well, but you can't play forever. Eventually mother nature does catch up. At least for him he will have a chance to prove that in Toronto and see if he can continue playing.

If he was gonna' play C on this team, it was gonna' have to be instead of Goose. When we started the year we didn't know if Hook would be ready to handle it full-time and we didn't have Fish. Neither Roy or 0llie could "handle" the C role, and they couldn't cut it as a wing, either. He had his chance, he didn't get mis-used, he didn't take advantage of his chance.

 

[torero]

I do not understand the negativity on the trade.

Beyond the players, it means that the management is taking a shot at the title this year.

That is awesome.

(i was believing in the next year ... but hey ! they go for it this year already)