- Aug 13, 2007
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Like Otter told Flounder... its gotta be better than the truth
as I said in another thread, what was he supposed to say, "I am washed up and got included as a salary dump/contract space?"
Confirmed with Link: [NSH/TOR] Franson and Santorelli for Leipsic, Jokinen, 2015 1st
- Thread starter Dave is a killer
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Like Otter told Flounder... its gotta be better than the truth
as I said in another thread, what was he supposed to say, "I am washed up and got included as a salary dump/contract space?"
Poile is going to swing at it. Most of the time you swing and miss, but sometimes you hit a home run. It's better than standing there with your bat on your shoulder.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
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Well I can't agree with that, Especially with Roy who has Looked good for the Oil now. Neither Roy or Jokinen could challenge Fish or Ribs but are both an upgrade to Jarnkrok at this point. So Olli's point is supported there. Like I said yesterday we will see if Olli has anything left soon enough. But in 22 games in Edmonton Roy has just 3 few points than Jarnkrok all year. This is not a knock on Hook who will be a good player in time. But I will take a veteran every time this time of year. Granted Hook has not had much help but he has been a disappointment compaired to what we expected going into the year.
If Jokinen was better than Jarnkrok, Lavy would have played him at center. The fact he didn't says Lavy does not agree with you.
Enoch
This is my boomstick
Come on Byrd, I understand to a degree what you are saying, but Jokinens play spoke for itself. It was bad. He had 6 points ..... 6!!! And he received plenty of TOI.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
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My point both Jokinen and and Roy are both centers have been all thru there career. A decision was made to play Hook in front of them. A wrong decision in my opinion. Yes Olli has signs of aging but does that prevent him from centering a 3rd line I don't think so. Olli may be done I don't know yet but I know Roy has got it going.
The root problem the club has loaded up with centers in search of that 1C gem and played them out of position. You have a endless amount of opinion about handiness for defensemen but not one word about guys that have played center in some cases there whole career and we expect to move them to wing and poof there stars. It does not happen all the time. Some make the adjustment right off some take time and some never will.
The root problem the club has loaded up with centers in search of that 1C gem and played them out of position. You have a endless amount of opinion about handiness for defensemen but not one word about guys that have played center in some cases there whole career and we expect to move them to wing and poof there stars. It does not happen all the time. Some make the adjustment right off some take time and some never will.
To me, wing is the easiest position. If Jokinen couldn't skate well enough on wing how would moving him to center make it better.
Now, it we're talking checking line center versus scoring line center that's different. Maybe Jokinen just wasn't cut out to be a checking line center and not good enough to play a top 2, which is what was going on with Roy.
Now, it we're talking checking line center versus scoring line center that's different. Maybe Jokinen just wasn't cut out to be a checking line center and not good enough to play a top 2, which is what was going on with Roy.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
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I can accept that but as a rule Wingers are the scorers and the centers pile on the assists from that. Both have there role. And the checking line center is different. Could Hook be more successful as a scoring center I think so, but he should have more production than he has at this point. His defense ability is a positive for him.
I guess my point is it Irks me that we misuse players and let them go many times with no better option. Now Santo is an upgrade to Olli I can accept that. But we let too many get loose that we shouldn't. Some that come to mind, Ward, Goc, Fiddler, Upshall(his hair alone). I could add Spaling to the list but we did get Neal and you have to give up some to get a better piece.
We play guys out of position and in a number of cases on lines they have no business playing. For example FF9 has no business on a checking line. Sure a couple games to jumble up and see what others can do but leave that guy there for an extended period your gonna get him hurt. He is the most creative talented player we have had well since Foppa. It would be a shame to have him suffer a injury that could effect the rest of his career.
I don't know if this has been posted yet, but I think it speaks for itself and I'm not surprised. Jokinen not too excited about being in Toronto.
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2015/02/16/olli-jokinen-not-exactly-happy-to-be-here-dimanno.html
http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2015/02/16/olli-jokinen-not-exactly-happy-to-be-here-dimanno.html
When I said easiest position I'm talking more about on ice assignments not who produces what. Everything from breakouts to defensive assignments are easier as a winger, even the forechecking is less of a read and more of a reaction as a winger.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
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I agree with the assignments and while I have never played on ice I do think there is a big difference in that game compared to roller hockey I played. Shoot that was even before the inline stuff too. I think its a lot different but many of the basics are the same. I would have loved to have been able to play defense but my ability to skate backwards was limited. Perhaps that is one of the reasons I am so critical of Smith his ability looks to be worse than mine in that area.
Maybe Olli is nothing more than a 4th line guy now and we arguably have the best 4th line center in the league now even though Goose takes a lot of abuse on HF. He is also used in roles a lot more than most 4th liners. But Olli has been a productive player his whole career at center and we will see if he can turn it around. I hope he does, im not his biggest fan but watched him a lot when he was a Panther and was one of those who wanted him here when he became a F/A from the Panthers.
glenngineer
Registered User
The mustard yellow was the old jersey. We wear gold now Mrs. J. And by the way, glad to rid of the ugliest player in hockey and his cromagnon head and mullet.
Dave is a killer
Dave's a Mess
predfan24
Registered User
- Jul 12, 2006
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In a top six role I agree with you. As a third line center I disagree. I've watched the Oil quite a bit the last couple weeks. Roy is not suited to be a third line center and he is still a player where offense goes to die quite a bit but he is obviously pretty good when he's got the puck on his stick and he has time and space.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
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Point taken. but with Lavi attempting to spread out the offense I have to think right now he would be a better option than Hook. Especially with FF9 on that line something that I am still scratching my head about.
Glad to hear she can wear Toronto blue for the next few weeks......
Really like OJ as a person and wish him the best, but he made Stalberg and Roy (when he was here) look like all stars.
I though Roy did a fair job when here. I thought he was pretty good with his stick and seemed calm when he had the puck, a good passer. Just seemed he needed to be on a top 2 line for him to be an asset. When Fish returned that made him expendable. Hope he does well. Same with OJ.
Enoch
This is my boomstick
I would have kept Roy as well. Jokinen, not so much. I would have much rather changed that decision at the time. Roy at least had some semblance of production. Make no mistake though, he was average here, and he made mistakes. The problem is we had lugs like Nystrom and Jokinen getting TOI, and we still don't know what to do with Beck or Borque.
wadesworld
Registered User
Pardon us for paying your husband 2.5 million dollars and giving him an opportunity to play on the #1 team in the NHL. If he wanted to still be here, he should have either proven he could contribute as a winger, or been such an incredible center we'd have no choice but to sit Jarnkrok or move him to wing.
Sorry, not shedding any tears for Olli. Appreciate the effort he put in and wish the best for him, but I'm not buying the "we were mistreated" card.
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AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
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predfan24
Registered User
- Jul 12, 2006
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In hindsight I'd agree it would have made much more sense for OJ to go than Roy. But at that the same time Poile wanted to be a good guy and send Roy to a place where he had a chance to succeed. That's a respectable move and I can't blame Poile. I think Lavy very badly wanted Jokes to work out here. He was probably good in the room, a vet guy and knew the game. I think Lavy probably felt due to his history his game would eventually turn around but it never did.
I find it sad OJ finally had a chance to go into the playoffs with a top team and got traded but in all reality he did it to himself. If he would have performed even to average expectations he would still be playing. Bottom line is he was slow footed, weak on the puck, weakest shot on the team (probably the skill of his that has diminished the most) and was just generally ineffective.
Sounds like to me he is in a bit of denial about his skills declining rapidly and career coming to an end which is sad. For 36 + years of your life hockey is YOUR LIFE and all of a sudden it is taken from you as a way to make a living. That's rough.
ThirdManIn
Registered User
- Aug 9, 2009
- 55,115
- 4,034
Let's not be petty about it. Jokinen and his wife, plus their kids, are actually affected by this decision. If they say some things that are less-than-polite it's understandable. This decision doesn't actually influence our lives beyond "hey we get to see someone else on our third line now!" There's really no need for the insults IMO.
And I say that as a fan and not as a moderator, since it doesn't actually break any rules, so take it for what it's worth.
predfan24
Registered User
- Jul 12, 2006
- 5,117
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Looking at some stats Santo comes in here with 25 ES points. That's good for 7th on time team with his TOI just about at 15 min a game. Very impressive and I hope whatever good juju he was feeling with Toronto transfers over here. If he can help get that third line producing watch out NHL.
TootooTrain
Sandpaper
- Jun 12, 2010
- 35,517
- 477
Santo loves to cycle the puck down low. Make the dmen work. Lunch pale type of player. Will be a nice fit and influence on Hook.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
Don't throw insults if you don't want to get them back imo. Is it fine for OJ too feel hurt and express that in some way? Sure and he has done that. His wife though? She needs to keep her mouth shut.
I look at it like this, Lavi kept him in the line up way long than he probably should have. He gave the guy a shot, he moved him up and down and all around. He put him with guys who could score, and heck I think he even got some PP time. He did nothing.
I'll also add that if Lavi thought he was the better option at 3rd line C then he would of been there. Say what you will but he couldn't beat out a rookie for the spot, and as a brand new coach to a team I seriously doubt he was playing any favorites. Also Jarnkrok hasn't played that poorly, especially when you consider just exactly who he has been centering at times this year.
As far as Forsberg being on a checking line, I have an odd feeling Lavi doesn't see it that way. He may see it as 3 scoring lines and one checking line with the 4th. Yeah traditionally the 3rd has been a checking line, but some people love to spit in the face of tradition. If it doesn't work out then he will make some changes obviously. Its also possible he may see Jarnkrok trying a bit too hard because of the numbers and wants to get someone on there that can put the puck in the net to just show him he isn't the problem.
Jarnkrok is the least of my worries going into the playoffs.
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