Not good enough - no playoffs again!

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

This is a team that needs to rebuild and sooner rather than later.

We're just wasting everyone's time dragging this out.

It's not like rebuilding is some fool proof process. And after 7 seasons worthy of being thrown straight in the trash, how do they sell the fan base on potentially 5+ more. Needs to be more of a re-tool imo. I know I'm basically out for the next half a decade if they tell me they're giving up again. Maybe you're right, but, barf.

 

[jbeck5]

It's not like rebuilding is some fool proof process. And after 7 seasons worthy of being thrown straight in the trash, how do they sell the fan base on potentially 5+ more. Needs to be more of a re-tool imo. I know I'm basically out for the next half a decade if they tell me they're giving up again. Maybe you're right, but, barf.

My goal isn't to make the playoffs though. It's to win a championship.

As a fan, I've experienced making the playoffs. It's super fun. But I've talked to friends who their favourite team won the cup, and it's something that will last a life time.

I want that feeling.

I care about what gives the best odds at winning a championship.

Over the last 30 or so years, have more more cups been won by teams who bottomed out prior to get a stud or studs higher in the draft to then win championships? Or were more done through slowly fighting for a playoff spot while they're in their prime.


Whatever were doing just doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

Usually the teams that win cups, those stud draft picks are good enough to get their team into the playoffs in their first 3 years or so. This team ain't it.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

My goal isn't to make the playoffs though. It's to win a championship.

As a fan, I've experienced making the playoffs. It's super fun. But I've talked to friends who their favourite team won the cup, and it's something that will last a life time.

I want that feeling.

I care about what gives the best odds at winning a championship.

Over the last 30 or so years, have more more cups been won by teams who bottomed out prior to get a stud or studs higher in the draft to then win championships? Or were more done through slowly fighting for a playoff spot while they're in their prime.


Whatever were doing just doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

Usually the teams that win cups, those stud draft picks are good enough to get their team into the playoffs in their first 3 years or so. This team ain't it.

I hear you. Dorion really f***ed it ten ways to Sunday. I just don't want to go through it lol, and knowing the relatively low chance it actually ends up where we want it gives me a lot of pause. Feels like this team has been rebuilding for 15+ years dating back to Murray's attempt, which basically spat and sputtered a few times with the budget being a problem. Then we have Dorion's 7 year failed rebuild. Now another? Man, I need to find a new hobby at that point.

 

[PlayOn]

This is a different team if you can get Ullmark, Sanderson and Pinto going. Presumably Giroux and Perron won’t continue to put up no points as they have of late, age aside.

I still think we can make the playoffs. I don’t expect Ullmark, Sanderson and Pinto to struggle forever, but it’s one of those things where we don’t have the luxury of time. They have to figure it out now. And it feels like we are wasting opportunities to get some points especially when we are healthier than you’d expect.

Credit to Chabot and Norris because I felt they were the only real question marks when it came to the core heading into the season - as it turns out, both of them have stepped up and we got others struggling.

 

[LuckyPierre]

Three core forwards are meeting or exceeding expectations. Stutzle, Batherson, and Norris. And with Norris, expectations were tempered. So in reality, two of our forwards are consistently dangerous on any given night.

Tkachuk seems banged up. Giroux is now a glorified PK specialist who is miscast as a top six skater (doesn’t have the pace). Grieg is also miscast and ought to be a bottom six energy guy. Pinto, in spite of low production, could actually be elevated as a top six winger, but that would create a hole down the middle.

So there’s still some work to do finding the optimal mix with what we have up front.

On defence, I was more patient than many here with the idea of getting Hamonic going early with lots of reps. Now that we need wins, and he’s settled into a certain rhythm, I think it’s time JBD brings his energy into the lineup. We also need to see Sanderson bring more assertiveness at even strength, and have forwards who can reliably cover for him when he finds opportunities to activate.

In goal… Ullmark needs to have a game. A no doubter where we get shelled while he stands on his head.

There’s plenty of time, and this roster is improved over years past. But coach needs to shift gears now and focus on accumulating win after win.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

This is a different team if you can get Ullmark, Sanderson and Pinto going. Presumably Giroux and Perron won’t continue to put up no points as they have of late, age aside.

I still think we can make the playoffs. I don’t expect Ullmark, Sanderson and Pinto to struggle forever, but it’s one of those things where we don’t have the luxury of time. They have to figure it out now. And it feels like we are wasting opportunities to get some points especially when we are healthier than you’d expect.

Credit to Chabot and Norris because I felt they were the only real question marks when it came to the core heading into the season - as it turns out, both of them have stepped up and we got others struggling.

By no means is their fate sealed.

 

[Loach]

By no means is their fate sealed.

...is their goose cooked?

 

[DylanSensFan]

For all the laughing this offseason, Montreal is only 1 pt behind with one more game played.

If Sens fans haven’t been « humbled » by now… I don’t know what will

We've been humbled for seven seasons now. f*** that, it's time for this team to step up. I believe in them.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

For all the laughing this offseason, Montreal is only 1 pt behind with one more game played.

If Sens fans haven’t been « humbled » by now… I don’t know what will

Lol why don't you just commit entirely to the team switch already, we all know you so badly want to.

 

[swiftwin]

Really just confirms the MO of the season is going to be winning a couple, losing a couple, and here and there adding another loss that isn't made up for. The team will just slowly fall behind and by the time we are needing any sort of win streak to get back into the mix, it's already over.


Although the 9 game road trip during the World Jr's presents a unique opportunity to really fall hard and fast.

Win a couple, lose a couple is how it goes for the vast majority of teams in the league. The difference is that playoffs teams squeeze in a few extra wins in between and those that don't squeeze in a couple extra losses. The difference between those two things are razor thin. For example, had we won yesterday, we'd have a better record than the Oilers themselves, the cup favs going into the season. If we're at a point in the season where flipping the outcome of a single game dramatically changes the outlook, that means it's way too to panic, or way too late.

Both the underlying metrics and the eye test show that the team is dramatically better this season. Staios is right, people need to chill the f*** out. Overall, the team is playing very well. There is always room for improvement, but it's no time to panic. This is an 82 game season, not a 25 game season.

 

[swiftwin]

This is a different team if you can get Ullmark, Sanderson and Pinto going. Presumably Giroux and Perron won’t continue to put up no points as they have of late, age aside.

I still think we can make the playoffs. I don’t expect Ullmark, Sanderson and Pinto to struggle forever, but it’s one of those things where we don’t have the luxury of time. They have to figure it out now. And it feels like we are wasting opportunities to get some points especially when we are healthier than you’d expect.

Credit to Chabot and Norris because I felt they were the only real question marks when it came to the core heading into the season - as it turns out, both of them have stepped up and we got others struggling.

IMO, people are sleeping on Perron. He's had a very difficult start to the season with his off ice issues, and now he's playing catchup. Despite this, he's looked good defensively. Once he gets going, I think that can be a very good 3rd line.

 

[NyQuil]

The plus/minus distribution on this team is wonky.

Stutzle is a +1 along with 6 other guys and Tkachuk and Batherson are -1.

A bunch of guys between -2 and -6.

Meanwhile, Jensen is a +12 and Sanderson is a -12 with Hamonic as a -7.

The next highest to Jensen is Chabot, with a +2.

 

[darude]

It's worth keeping in perspective that we're 4th in SoS so far in what we've played. The only teams with a tougher schedule so far are the Blues, the Panthers, and the Lightning,

While we have to win as many as we can our schedule becomes easier in the next couple weeks and especially once we start our road trip. I think if the guys can put together a couple of wins they can really get rolling and we'll be talking about a top-3 division finish come the all-star break. We just have to hope their confidence isn't shattered by that point.

The plus/minus distribution on this team is wonky.
[...]
Meanwhile, Jensen is a +12 and Sanderson is a -12 with Hamonic as a -7.

I wouldn't read a lot into that, Sanderson has played about 140 minutes over 15 games with Hamonic. He seems snakebitten on offense right now but that minus can pretty well be attributed to that stretch. Their xGA/60 is 3.09, the only pairing on the team that's over 2.15.

 

[NyQuil]

I wouldn't read a lot into that, Sanderson has played about 140 minutes over 15 games with Hamonic. He seems snakebitten on offense right now but that minus can pretty well be attributed to that stretch. Their xGA/60 is 3.09, the only pairing on the team that's over 2.15.

Well, it’s why I put them together in my post.

But Zub is a -5 which basically adds up to -12 when combined with Hamonic.

The “shutdown” pairing is getting caved.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

For all the laughing this offseason, Montreal is only 1 pt behind with one more game played.

If Sens fans haven’t been « humbled » by now… I don’t know what will

You always use Montreal as a barometer to anything Sens related. As if they are your primary or secondary team or something that you secretly not so secretly cheer for.

 

[Karterthadon]

It's not like rebuilding is some fool proof process. And after 7 seasons worthy of being thrown straight in the trash, how do they sell the fan base on potentially 5+ more. Needs to be more of a re-tool imo. I know I'm basically out for the next half a decade if they tell me they're giving up again. Maybe you're right, but, barf.

The fans will have to accept it, it's not like there's a magic switch that can be flipped and then *boom* playoffs.

As you said, it's not a fool proof process. Before Edmonton drafted the two best players on the planet, they had an entire rebuild cycle that bombed (Hall, Eberle, MPS, etc.) Same with Colorado who had the Duchesne,/O'Reilly/Stasny core that didn't amount to much.

This current core is just not good enough. Stutzle and Sanderson should be the only two untouchables, everybody else can go,

 

[DrEasy]

You always use Montreal as a barometer to anything Sens related. As if they are your primary or secondary team or something that you secretly not so secretly cheer for.

He's living in Montreal, he's surrounded by Habs hype, media and fans. Can you blame him?

 

[Xspyrit]

Well, we have a goalie that is drastically underperforming, and should bounce back. they have a goalie that's playing out of his mind and they still suck. I don't see the current standings as indicative of where the two teams are.

They did hit a homerun by having Demidov slide to them though,

Yes a lot rests on the shoulders of our 8.25 AAV goalie, he has to get hot and inspire confidence in the team. I'm still holding out hope but damn at some point, you're just discouraged.

Habs unfortunately have a lot more than Demidov going on for them. Fowler is quickly becoming one of the best if not the best goalie prospect in the world. Some ranked him Top-5 before the season and he's off to an even better start than last season where it's been said : "To say he had a great season would be a massive understatement.". Hage is PPG in college in his freshman year so far. They have plenty of quality prospects. Their pool looks as good as ours back in 2020 just after the draft (and I was saying on the main boards that we had the best pool and the best future in the NHL back then, which was true, until Dorion dorionized everything)

They also have their AHL team as the best in the league right now, they don't give up a lot of goals and can score like the best of them. Oh and Montembeault started really well with back to back wins against Leafs and Sens (just allowing 1 goal) and recently got hot again (3 goals in last 3 games) but he was terrible in between, many people (fans + medias) wanted to run him out of town.

The hope is that MSL is a DJ type and can't get them to play 2-way hockey but he's been insisting on that to even dry up their offense but now they allowed only 3 goals (+ 1 EN) in their last 3 games and scored 8 in the last 2. Hopefully it doesn't last

That's what's gotten me by. Oilers I've been heavy on for about 4 years now. Flames before them and Nucks before them. I still like them all, and I'll be in on the Oilers again this year, but I don't quite have the belief in them that I did last year.

As I hit 40 and feel like all I've done is watch my teams lose before it's all over, I kind of start to question the time commitment.

Every season I am recording every game at the beginning, watching every play of every minute of every period then as the season goes, it feels more and more like a waste of time so I gradually cut the corners.

It was Craig Anderson who let this team down every second season(something I pointed out, Mendes bumped on the radio, then went to TSN during our games, and then my analysis made it to hockey night in Canada).

Also Paulrus was the shit and what a room full of jocks needed. This team needs a whole lot a breast milk and Stuat Smalley

Disagree on Anderson, he is still the best goalie this team has ever had (outside of one Hasek season) and I wish his down seasons were our highs currently...

And yeah, I liked the team under Paul MacLean, we were a young team that had a big retool, made the playoffs the first 2 years (won that 1st round against Montreal), missed by a few points the 3rd season and while he got fired in his 4th season, we finished with 99 pts, which was our highest total of the last 17 seasons

Underrated?

10-11: -58
11-12: +9
12-13: +12
13-14: -29
14-15: +23
15-16: -11
16-17: -2
17-18: -70

I wouldn't call that team underrated.

Even if we remove the first and last year, over a 6 year span we were +2 over 6 years...that's basically as average as they come.

An average of +0.3 per year goal differential.

We were an average team that knew how to get hot at the right time a couple times like the hamburgler run or the conference final run.

Sorry, I didn't mean as team results but on paper. Stone was a bit young but he's an elite 2-way Selke level forward, Zibanejad was young and not fully developed but we know who he is today, Hoffman was an offensive weapon, Turris a good 2-way center, Ryan and MacArthur, while diminished/careers cut short by injuries, offered a lot when healthy, Pageau and Smith great bottom-6 forwards, etc

That team didn't have consistent results and didn't peak very long (once Dorion took control of it) but thy didn't have a lot of time together. Look at the age Karlsson, Zibanejad and Stone were traded for example... Other franchises with different Owners/GMs would have done differently.

Also, the years you mentioned includes the retool season (which was very needed) in 2010-11 and the downfall in 2017-18. Again, I never said they were anything close to an Elite team but the personnel was underrated due to health problems and peaks/primes not concurring at the same time. Just imagine all these players I listed at their best at the same time...

 

[Xspyrit]

Have you watched the games? Ullmark is letting in absolute muffins, and in most of his starts, has not had much to do. He's been terrible considering the chances we're giving up.

We're giving up 27 shots per game (5th best in the league), and are top 10 in fewest quality chances against.

So far this year, he's been the problem, not any "system". The start to his Ottawa career has been worse than both Korpisalo's and Murray's, because those guys got bombarded. He has not.

Forsberg 0.4 GSAA, Ullmark -4.3 GSAA, he's been comfortably outplayed by his backup, which is not something we can afford this season...

Lol why don't you just commit entirely to the team switch already, we all know you so badly want to.

Damn, didn't we go through that already? I had to explain that anyone truly believing that I am a Habs fan would be quite stupid or totally unaware. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that you just didn't read my posts proving that I am a Sens fan (like in the poll section) or all of my prospect ranking polls for years.

I really think that before quoting someone and then requiring their time and attention, an effort to read their posts should be made. In this thread I have also said this :

All I have is cheering for Western Canadian teams. I have rooted for the Flames and Jets in the past and even the Oilers now and starting to get warmer on the Canucks…

I mean… that sucks no?

When people ask me what team do you cheer for if it’s not the Habs? I used to answer the Sens and now I tell them “all the Canadian teams except Montreal and Toronto”

You always use Montreal as a barometer to anything Sens related. As if they are your primary or secondary team or something that you secretly not so secretly cheer for.

Read Dr's answer and mine below

He's living in Montreal, he's surrounded by Habs hype, media and fans. Can you blame him?

Yeah that is the obvious part, but it's not just that. They are also a team in our division, a Canadian team and a DIRECT RIVAL. I'd like to take the Leafs as a barometer too but they are a million years ahead as of now, as they have 8 successful seasons in a row (thankfully not in the playoffs!). It's still far from guaranteed that we'll even make the playoffs in our 8th rebuilding season... Impossible to compare.

Buffalo Sabres : missed the playoffs for 13 seasons
Detroit Red Wings : missed the playoffs for 8 seasons
Ottawa Senators : missed the playoffs for 7 seasons
Montreal Canadiens : missed the playoffs for 3 seasons

Thanks to the Sabres and Wings, we aren't the only losers in our division.

Since Montreal has just started their rebuild (compared to us), they are the barometer that we need to be much better in standings to not be trash. It's actually as simple as that but that seems quite the controverse for some

 

[jbeck5]

I hear you. Dorion really f***ed it ten ways to Sunday. I just don't want to go through it lol, and knowing the relatively low chance it actually ends up where we want it gives me a lot of pause. Feels like this team has been rebuilding for 15+ years dating back to Murray's attempt, which basically spat and sputtered a few times with the budget being a problem. Then we have Dorion's 7 year failed rebuild. Now another? Man, I need to find a new hobby at that point.

What's the alternative? Sounds worse.

 

[jbeck5]

Yes a lot rests on the shoulders of our 8.25 AAV goalie, he has to get hot and inspire confidence in the team. I'm still holding out hope but damn at some point, you're just discouraged.

Habs unfortunately have a lot more than Demidov going on for them. Fowler is quickly becoming one of the best if not the best goalie prospect in the world. Some ranked him Top-5 before the season and he's off to an even better start than last season where it's been said : "To say he had a great season would be a massive understatement.". Hage is PPG in college in his freshman year so far. They have plenty of quality prospects. Their pool looks as good as ours back in 2020 just after the draft (and I was saying on the main boards that we had the best pool and the best future in the NHL back then, which was true, until Dorion dorionized everything)

They also have their AHL team as the best in the league right now, they don't give up a lot of goals and can score like the best of them. Oh and Montembeault started really well with back to back wins against Leafs and Sens (just allowing 1 goal) and recently got hot again (3 goals in last 3 games) but he was terrible in between, many people (fans + medias) wanted to run him out of town.

The hope is that MSL is a DJ type and can't get them to play 2-way hockey but he's been insisting on that to even dry up their offense but now they allowed only 3 goals (+ 1 EN) in their last 3 games and scored 8 in the last 2. Hopefully it doesn't last



Every season I am recording every game at the beginning, watching every play of every minute of every period then as the season goes, it feels more and more like a waste of time so I gradually cut the corners.



Disagree on Anderson, he is still the best goalie this team has ever had (outside of one Hasek season) and I wish his down seasons were our highs currently...

And yeah, I liked the team under Paul MacLean, we were a young team that had a big retool, made the playoffs the first 2 years (won that 1st round against Montreal), missed by a few points the 3rd season and while he got fired in his 4th season, we finished with 99 pts, which was our highest total of the last 17 seasons



Sorry, I didn't mean as team results but on paper. Stone was a bit young but he's an elite 2-way Selke level forward, Zibanejad was young and not fully developed but we know who he is today, Hoffman was an offensive weapon, Turris a good 2-way center, Ryan and MacArthur, while diminished/careers cut short by injuries, offered a lot when healthy, Pageau and Smith great bottom-6 forwards, etc

That team didn't have consistent results and didn't peak very long (once Dorion took control of it) but thy didn't have a lot of time together. Look at the age Karlsson, Zibanejad and Stone were traded for example... Other franchises with different Owners/GMs would have done differently.

Also, the years you mentioned includes the retool season (which was very needed) in 2010-11 and the downfall in 2017-18. Again, I never said they were anything close to an Elite team but the personnel was underrated due to health problems and peaks/primes not concurring at the same time. Just imagine all these players I listed at their best at the same time...

I feel like we thought they were better than they were. Like other teams fans wouldn't rank them nearly as high as we did. Hoffman was pretty one dimensional and inconsistent. Turris though a good two way center, was more of a second line center... Ryan was slow and not a good top 2 line player for most of his time here. MacArthur missed like 90% of a 2-3 year window.

The team had no depth and no structure and no elite skill.

Stone was good. Zibanejad later became good. Karlsson was good. You only really had 2 stars and one who later became one after being gone.

The team's winning cups at that time were stacked with star power and depth and structure compared to that team.

They relied on Karlsson,Anderson, and stone, and other than Karlsson, those guys weren't even near the top guys in the league at their position.


It was all pesky and timing and being clutch. Karlsson and Anderson and stone were not superstars(well, Karlsson was) but it was the fact that they were so clutch that they could go on a winning steak to save the season or win a playoff round.

This team is better on paper, but lacks any type of "clutch" ability to even make the playoffs or go on a streak or do anything right when it matters it seems.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Last year it was systems and goalies.

This year it's mostly goalies.

Ullmark needs to figure his shit out while the defensive structure/system maintains itself.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Honestly, Brady is a someone whom I would be ok being shipped out of here. Going to Florida with his brother, who would come back for him? This core needs to be split. Norris can leave as well, but no one will touch him with his history. We are up shits creek and the other GM's know this....we will get fleeced by the other GM's as usual.

Trade him to New Jersey. They have a ton of good pieces that are young, and it's a market he'd want to go to (since the wife is from there, iirc).

 

[Beech]

Last year it was systems and goalies.

This year it's mostly goalies.

Ullmark needs to figure his shit out while the defensive structure/system maintains itself.

they are at 17 points, from 18 games played.
The last playoff spots, will most likely hit 20 points by game 20.
So, they have games 19 and 20 to acquire 3 points. Or the season is done.

Should Boston get a new coach bump, should Buffalo step up so much as a tiny notch, the season is done anyway.

Once again, Nov 25 is end of the earth day for them.

We have July 1, Canada Day
Nov 11, Remembrance Day
May 8, VE Day

Nov 25, FYO Day (f*** you Ottawa Day)


Ullmark or Forsberg had better stand on their head the next 2 games. Or The FYO Day parade will be on Bank street starting at 11 am.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

My goal isn't to make the playoffs though. It's to win a championship.

As a fan, I've experienced making the playoffs. It's super fun. But I've talked to friends who their favourite team won the cup, and it's something that will last a life time.

I want that feeling.

I care about what gives the best odds at winning a championship.

Over the last 30 or so years, have more more cups been won by teams who bottomed out prior to get a stud or studs higher in the draft to then win championships? Or were more done through slowly fighting for a playoff spot while they're in their prime.


Whatever were doing just doesn't seem like a recipe for success.

Usually the teams that win cups, those stud draft picks are good enough to get their team into the playoffs in their first 3 years or so. This team ain't it.

This is a small market, low revenue team in a quiet city. Only chance we have of winning a championship is to catch lightning in a bottle and get some spectacular kids who can roughshod on the league while still on their ELCs or on a sweetheart bridge deal. And in another 2-3 years, the salary cap will be over $100 million. How the ever living f*** are we ever going to compete with that kind of salary market?