Not good enough - no playoffs again!

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

A lot of things will have to go wrong for them to fail their rebuild. Just having Demidov, Hage and Fowler in reinforcements in the next few years hurts. They own Calgary’s first this year. They already got a 2nd for getting Laine and will probably get more value by trading him next season’s deadline. They have prospects and picks flowing with many good young players on their roster already. It’s not looking good

Hoping MSL is a DJ type in the end but they clearly don’t have a Dorion running (or more like ruining) the show…

I will hope for it nonetheless. Them being good and the Senators continuing to suck might just be enough to kill my interest in hockey for good.

 

[Xspyrit]

He doesn't have the ability to lead or will or push this team into the playoffs.

He'd be a great secondary piece but he's no Karlsson leading a bunch of no one's on one leg to the conference finals type of leader. He doesn't have it in him.

He would have been a great assistant captain to a mark stone for example.

I think the past team get quickly underrated because of how dominant Karlsson could be at times but seriously, that team wasn’t bad at all…

Mark Stone, Kyle Turris, Mike Hoffman, Mika Zibanejad, Bobby Ryan, Clarke MacArthur, JG Pageau, Zack Smith, Chris Neil, Erik Karlsson, Marc Methot, Dion Phaneuf, Craig Anderson

People don’t keep in mind that stats from these years would be inflated today…

What would have helped is more depth on defense but we sucked at drafting Ds for a while.

I will hope for it nonetheless. Them being good and the Senators continuing to suck might just be enough to kill my interest in hockey for good.

All I have is cheering for Western Canadian teams. I have rooted for the Flames and Jets in the past and even the Oilers now and starting to get warmer on the Canucks…

I mean… that sucks no?

When people ask me what team do you cheer for if it’s not the Habs? I used to answer the Sens and now I tell them “all the Canadian teams except Montreal and Toronto”

 

[Micklebot]

How are they in worse shape than us? They finished 2 pts behind us last season, which was their 3rd rebuilding year (or 2019-20 for us). They are 1 point behind this season and this is our 8th season…

A few minutes ago, Georges Laraque was talking about the AHL parade for the Calder cup next spring. They have a stacked prospect pool and already some interesting talent on their NHL team

Imagine if they finish in front of Ottawa this season… what a shame that would be. I f***ing hate Dorion

Well, we have a goalie that is drastically underperforming, and should bounce back. they have a goalie that's playing out of his mind and they still suck. I don't see the current standings as indicative of where the two teams are.

They did hit a homerun by having Demidov slide to them though,

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

All I have is cheering for Western Canadian teams. I have rooted for the Flames and Jets in the past and even the Oilers now and starting to get warmer on the Canucks…

I mean… that sucks no?

That's what's gotten me by. Oilers I've been heavy on for about 4 years now. Flames before them and Nucks before them. I still like them all, and I'll be in on the Oilers again this year, but I don't quite have the belief in them that I did last year.

As I hit 40 and feel like all I've done is watch my teams lose before it's all over, I kind of start to question the time commitment.

 

[Stylizer1]

I think the past team get quickly underrated because of how dominant Karlsson could be at times but seriously, that team wasn’t bad at all…

Mark Stone, Kyle Turris, Mike Hoffman, Mika Zibanejad, Bobby Ryan, Clarke MacArthur, JG Pageau, Zack Smith, Erik Karlsson, Marc Methot, Dion Phaneuf, Craig Anderson

What would have helped is more depth on defense but we sucked at drafting Ds for a while.



All I have is cheering for Western Canadian teams. I have rooted for the Flames and Jets in the past and even the Oilers now and starting to get warmer on the Canucks…

I mean… that sucks no?

It was Craig Anderson who let this team down every second season(something I pointed out, Mendes bumped on the radio, then went to TSN during our games, and then my analysis made it to hockey night in Canada).

Also Paulrus was the shit and what a room full of jocks needed. This team needs a whole lot a breast milk and Stuat Smalley

 

[Stylizer1]

.....

 

[Micklebot]

It was Craig Anderson who let this team down every second season(something I pointed out, Mendes bumped on the radio, then went to TSN during our games, and then my analysis made it to hockey night in Canada).

Even in his "bad" seasons, Andserson was still a quality starter.

2010-11, came in and was lights out.
2011-12, .914 sv% (league average was .914)
2012-13, lights out at .941 (league average was .912)
2013-14, .911 sv% (league average was .914)
2014-15, .923 sv% (league average was .915)
2015-16, .916 sv%, (league average was .915)
2016-17, .926 sv%, (league average was .913)

He always gave us a chance to win, even in his bad years he was good enough to not be the problem

 

[bicboi64]

Ullmark has been historically bad for his career, so he statistically bound to get better, but our offensive depth being absolutely ass isn't encouraging.

Giroux, Pinto, Greig, Sandy, Perron (only one who has a good reason) have all sucked.

 

[jbeck5]

I think the past team get quickly underrated because of how dominant Karlsson could be at times but seriously, that team wasn’t bad at all…

Mark Stone, Kyle Turris, Mike Hoffman, Mika Zibanejad, Bobby Ryan, Clarke MacArthur, JG Pageau, Zack Smith, Chris Neil, Erik Karlsson, Marc Methot, Dion Phaneuf, Craig Anderson

People don’t keep in mind that stats from these years would be inflated today…

What would have helped is more depth on defense but we sucked at drafting Ds for a while.



All I have is cheering for Western Canadian teams. I have rooted for the Flames and Jets in the past and even the Oilers now and starting to get warmer on the Canucks…

I mean… that sucks no?

When people ask me what team do you cheer for if it’s not the Habs? I used to answer the Sens and now I tell them “all the Canadian teams except Montreal and Toronto”

Underrated?

10-11: -58
11-12: +9
12-13: +12
13-14: -29
14-15: +23
15-16: -11
16-17: -2
17-18: -70

I wouldn't call that team underrated.

Even if we remove the first and last year, over a 6 year span we were +2 over 6 years...that's basically as average as they come.

An average of +0.3 per year goal differential.

We were an average team that knew how to get hot at the right time a couple times like the hamburgler run or the conference final run.

 

[Adrianopolous]

Yall are even more depressed than I am.

I like it.

 

[jbeck5]

Yall are even more depressed than I am.

I like it.

Lol I find myself hoping the other team scores... Like I'm used to tanking lol

I don't remember what it's like to win regularly and want to win.

 

[Sting]

I just don't see how the team can seriously think of itself as a real playoff hopeful and/or up-and-coming-team when this team has players like Norris, Chabot, Tkachuk, Zub, Giroux etc. in roles they just can't handle. The team's best players aren't good enough and Dorion married our future to these guys with the contracts handed out before they earned them.

The timing doesn't work out very well either. This is Stu and Sanderson's team. By the time we are out from under some of the aforementioned contracts, they'll be in their prime and wanting to be on a real contender. We'll be in the middle of a re-tool/re-build.

I don't envy what Staois has inherited. Tough spot to be in.

 

[jbeck5]

I just don't see how the team can seriously think of itself as a real playoff hopeful and/or up-and-coming-team when this team has players like Norris, Chabot, Tkachuk, Zub, Giroux etc. in roles they just can't handle. The team's best players aren't good enough and Dorion married our future to these guys with the contracts handed out before they earned them.

The timing doesn't work out very well either. This is Stu and Sanderson's team. By the time we are out from under some of the aforementioned contracts, they'll be in their prime and wanting to be on a real contender. We'll be in the middle of a re-tool/re-build.

I don't envy what Staois has inherited. Tough spot to be in.

This is a team that needs to rebuild and sooner rather than later.

We're just wasting everyone's time dragging this out.

 

[DrEasy]

My goals for this current core are simply to make the playoffs a couple of times, ideally this year and the next. Then I'd happily retool, and build a better team around Stutzle, Sanderson and Yak, accepting another year or two of missing the playoffs and collecting assets.

I thought at the beginning of the season that this team would be on the bubble, probably missing the playoffs eventually, but at least making things interesting into April. I still believe this prediction is realistic. And hopefully I'm underrating them and they can pleasantly surprise me (and reach those goals I mentioned at the beginning of this post). So far they haven't.

 

[Stylizer1]

Even in his "bad" seasons, Andserson was still a quality starter.

2010-11, came in and was lights out.
2011-12, .914 sv% (league average was .914)
2012-13, lights out at .941 (league average was .912)
2013-14, .911 sv% (league average was .914)
2014-15, .923 sv% (league average was .915)
2015-16, .916 sv%, (league average was .915)
2016-17, .926 sv%, (league average was .913)

He always gave us a chance to win, even in his bad years he was good enough to not be the problem

Those are just numbers. During those seasons when we were all talking about him the seasons he did not play well were the seasons we missed the playoffs. Those numbers don't show the must win games against teams in our division, the quality of the opponent, etc. The knock against Murray was going out and getting him right when we were in the thick of getting a high draft pick. Even the seasons he played well we barely made the playoffs. The season we almost made the finals had more to do with our opponents injuries than him standing on his head. No doubt he was good for us and stabilized our net.

As for Green I never thought he was a good pick to get this team to the next level. It was such an underwhelming hire when the fans needed more. Chabot was never a #1 dman in the league. It hurts Sanderson not having that true #1 infront of him to show him the ropes.

The ones who gets exposed the most is Ullmark. The system in front of him is bad and everyone expects him to stand on his head every night. The shots he's facing are not the same as in Boston because they players in that system knew each other and knew what to do and when to do it.

 

[DackellDuck]

The ones who gets exposed the most is Ullmark. The system in front of him is bad and everyone expects him to stand on his head every night. The shots he's facing are not the same as in Boston because they players in that system knew each other and knew what to do and when to do it.

Have you watched the games? Ullmark is letting in absolute muffins, and in most of his starts, has not had much to do. He's been terrible considering the chances we're giving up.

We're giving up 27 shots per game (5th best in the league), and are top 10 in fewest quality chances against.

So far this year, he's been the problem, not any "system". The start to his Ottawa career has been worse than both Korpisalo's and Murray's, because those guys got bombarded. He has not.

 

[Back in Black]

SENS win the next 3 games and this thread is forgotten.....

 

[Cosmix]

Even those times you mentioned, we generally had an average to below average team..I think most years we allowed more goals than we scored...which is a bad team. They were lucky or pesky and went on a run at the right time.

We haven't actually had a strong team since like 07-08ish when we started to suck.

So like, a good 16 years since we've had a "strong team" that others would actually call a good team.



You need to have a good GM who can win a trade like that.

Last thing you want is a stone-like trade where we get like 2 prospects who don't pan out, some 3rd liner for cap dump, and a low first or something.

Has staios ever won a big trade in his gm career?

Was the acquisition of Jensen and a third round pick for Chychrun a win?
Was the acquisition of Ullmark for a first round pick and dumping of Korpisalo a win?

Was the signing of UFAs Perron, Amadio, Cousins and Gregor wins?

 

[SensFanInMTL]

 

[Micklebot]

Those are just numbers. During those seasons when we were all talking about him the seasons he did not play well were the seasons we missed the playoffs. Those numbers don't show the must win games against teams in our division, the quality of the opponent, etc. The knock against Murray was going out and getting him right when we were in the thick of getting a high draft pick. Even the seasons he played well we barely made the playoffs. The season we almost made the finals had more to do with our opponents injuries than him standing on his head. No doubt he was good for us and stabilized our net.

What I'm saying is expectations were set based on Anderson's great years, I watched all those games, I am quite well aware of how he played, he was never bad, he just wasn't elite in those years. Right now, we'd kill for that.

As for Green I never thought he was a good pick to get this team to the next level. It was such an underwhelming hire when the fans needed more. Chabot was never a #1 dman in the league. It hurts Sanderson not having that true #1 infront of him to show him the ropes.

Green has been the least of our problems, he's got them really reducing the chances against, and if we start getting some saves everything should come together.

The ones who gets exposed the most is Ullmark. The system in front of him is bad and everyone expects him to stand on his head every night. The shots he's facing are not the same as in Boston because they players in that system knew each other and knew what to do and when to do it.

This para tells me you either don't watch the sens, didn't watch the bruins, or both. Just wildly inaccurate.

 

[Sting]

This is a team that needs to rebuild and sooner rather than later.

We're just wasting everyone's time dragging this out.

Very few clubs end up doing that unfortunately. Mostly because you get stuck...which is exactly what we are. Obviously not moving Stu. Sanderson or Ullmark. We're not offloading Chabot or Norris. Can't give up guys like Pinto, Greig, Batherson because we won't get equal value back and they're good cost-controlled players. The optics of moving Brady wouldn't be good.

So assuming you're keeping all those guys around, you're pretty stuck with a middle of the pack team for the next 3-4 years until contracts force hands (Brady and Chabot up in 2028).

I actually thought Norris was done then too but surprise! He's locked in until 2030. At 8 million.

 

[jbeck5]

Was the acquisition of Jensen and a third round pick for Chychrun a win?
Was the acquisition of Ullmark for a first round pick and dumping of Korpisalo a win?

Was the signing of UFAs Perron, Amadio, Cousins and Gregor wins?

We will wait and see.

I forgot he was a rookie GM so of course he doesn't have any previous wins. Silly me.

Would have been nice to have a GM with some experience.

 

[KingAlfie11]

A reset of the rebuilding process appears necessary since the current team is not meeting expectations. It's time for management to take action. The franchise's likelihood of making the playoffs seems low. Although tanking might be considered, the team frequently wins insignificant games by February, which leaves us in a state of uncertainty. Strategic readjustments are needed to move forward. There is an imminent risk of following in the footsteps of the Sabres.

 

[WallyD]

I was bullish on Ullmark heading in, but he has not looked good and the whole key to these guys finding their footing has been lost. I think it's on him too, the team has been mostly fine in his games imo. It's wading in to disaster territory though if they don't reel off a couple wins here quickly and while Forsberg has been better, I don't think he's good enough to take them anywhere right now either. Either Ullmark gets it together or this team is f***ed.

SS had no choice but to give it another go with this core and his options were limited by the lack of assets, but if this season ends like the last few, it's time to make major changes to the core. Re-tool, whatever you want to call it, but I feel like the core is properly supported this year and still can't carry the team consistently the way your best players need to in this league.

When I see Zub handing the puck to the opposition like he did early on last night, I can't help but feel like they're broken in some way. He's better than that. So many times when they're looking good, someone takes them out of it, whether it's the goaltender or a player.

I am certainly not claiming the outcome was the result of bad officiating, but the Refs have contributed with horrible calls and non-calls of late. That said, the Sens truly sucked ass last night! I am also not commenting on the rest of Zub's game play. I believe you are referring to that early game goal that many claim resulted from Zub's "coughing up the puck", or his "inability to clear the puck off the boards." In fairness to him, if you look closely at how that unfolded you'll see that that the Zebras completely missed (ignored!) McDavid getting his stick all tied up in or at a minimum slashing Zub's hands. Any other time and for most players that is a near automatic penalty call. Of course this is the NHL so standards dictated different rules apply for time of game, penalty pocket marble count and for special players. I guarantee that call would have instant had a Sens player done same.

I appreciate your stated positions, lots of solid points. Only observation I make is that way too many people believe the team is 100% paralyzed and cannot make any moves. I don't doubt Staios's options are limited, the development stable is sparse, available picks are a barren wasteland, and he has little wiggle room. That does not mean he cannot make a trade of like for like, dollar for dollar, something to shake the hell out of this core. This should be done if only to send the message that mediocrity will not be tollerated, that this is performance business and there are real consequences. Not sayig it is an easy move, but it is doable. Some players and contracts are more immovable, but I give Staios credit for doing what many people thought was impossible, even if the results have yet born the fruit we want.

 

[jbeck5]

Very few clubs end up doing that unfortunately. Mostly because you get stuck...which is exactly what we are. Obviously not moving Stu. Sanderson or Ullmark. We're not offloading Chabot or Norris. Can't give up guys like Pinto, Greig, Batherson because we won't get equal value back and they're good cost-controlled players. The optics of moving Brady wouldn't be good.

So assuming you're keeping all those guys around, you're pretty stuck with a middle of the pack team for the next 3-4 years until contracts force hands (Brady and Chabot up in 2028).

I actually thought Norris was done then too but surprise! He's locked in until 2030. At 8 million.

That's just the thing...don't do what you just suggested.

Most rebuilds occur when there is an aging core that is on the downside of their careers, so the team unloads them all for 2nd and 3rd round picks and goes on to suck.

We have the benefit of our players that we are offloading would be in the prime of their careers, and not a 34 year old Tarasenko that we hope to get a 3rd and a 5th for.

We're in a position to get wayyyyy more picks and prospects than an aging team like Pittsburgh who would decide to unload players.

I hear guys like Tkachuk would get a crazy return...Giroux would get a good return...I'm sure a contender wanting to bolster their lineup would give up lots of prospects and picks for potential 70+pts batherson at 4.9 million, etc.


Rather than waste everyone's time over the next 3-4 years just to start a rebuild, might as well start it earlier. It's a win win.


-It's a win because we aren't wasting 3-4 years on perpetual mediocrity.
-its a win because we start it from a position of strength with many valuable assets in their prime.

This isnt a "we only have stone to give away" or "we only have pageau to give away" . This time, we literally have like half our team who we can give away and other teams might value.