Salary Cap: Nonis sits at #20 in the league salary cap with 2 players to sign.

[leafspring*]

I don't think trading Gunnar or Phaneuf just to give Franson too much money is a good idea; and I'm fairly confident Nonis probably realizes this as well.

Phaneuf, Ranger, Gunnar, Liles, Gardiner, Fraser, Holzer, Rielly.....there's still a good amount of depth on the blueline without Franson.

Was just listing possibilities.

 

[jmart21]

Was just listing possibilities.

Understandable. There's many ways cap-space can be made.
I'm just outlining that the only realistic scenarios are:

a. Franson lowers his demands and signs below what he's asking for.
b. Franson is traded.

 

[hotpaws]

Yes it was....as if we bought out Komi as a regular buy out, it would have left us with less cap room this year.

How does using an amnesty on JML and a regular b/o on Komi leave us with less cap space than keeping JML on the books ?

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

2 buyouts in one year is rare for any team to be in that bad a cap situation, but 3 buyouts (2 X compliance & 1 regular one) is unheard of, for any GM trying to dig himself out of the mess he inherited.

Inherited? The hand he was dealt?

Was Dave Nonis not part of this management team when most of these contracts were signed?

 

[diceman934]

Inherited? The hand he was dealt?

Was Dave Nonis not part of this management team when most of these contracts were signed?

Yes he was.....and he never had the final say.....

He was not the responsible party..as that falls to the GM and not his assistant.

 

[diceman934]

How does using an amnesty on JML and a regular b/o on Komi leave us with less cap space than keeping JML on the books ?

I guess I should have clarified....that the two are not interchangeable if you were buying out the three....Grabo, Komi and Liles. That would have left us with a lot less cap space....

If we used an amnesty buy out on Liles we would still have Komi on the books and his cap hit is higher...

 

[leafspring*]

I guess I should have clarified....that the two are not interchangeable if you were buying out the three....Grabo, Komi and Liles. That would have left us with a lot less cap space....

If we used an amnesty buy out on Liles we would still have Komi on the books and his cap hit is higher...

We have no buyout money owing next season though as we sit. Thats going to leave us plenty of cap space next year when we really need it. There are players with the Marlies that will have another developement year under their belt.The thinking ahead to have positive cap space next season is a smart management move too.

There will be cap management issues every year,with this year being a strain on every team equally. There was no warning of how the cap would drop as it was collectively bargained.

Teams in better shape might have been lucky or a floor team that is not bothered one way or the other.

The leafs forward group is paid at 10th league wide on dollars per player and that could speak to the depth and quality of the forward group. Adding Kadri shouldn't move that number much because we are averaging $2,900,000 per forward. The defense has the 10th least cap hit over-all league wide ,but has a 17th ranking on dollars per player.

There is some nice balance salary wise on the team. Liles will be kept until someone runs into the need for his services because of injury possibly. Today though i would think not a single team would be interested in Liles solely because of the cap hit.

 

[hotpaws]

We have no buyout money owing next season though as we sit. Thats going to leave us plenty of cap space next year when we really need it. There are players with the Marlies that will have another developement year under their belt.The thinking ahead to have positive cap space next season is a smart management move too.

There will be cap management issues every year,with this year being a strain on every team equally. There was no warning of how the cap would drop as it was collectively bargained.

Teams in better shape might have been lucky or a floor team that is not bothered one way or the other.

The leafs forward group is paid at 10th league wide on dollars per player and that could speak to the depth and quality of the forward group. Adding Kadri shouldn't move that number much because we are averaging $2,900,000 per forward. The defense has the 10th least cap hit over-all league wide ,but has a 17th ranking on dollars per player.

There is some nice balance salary wise on the team. Liles will be kept until someone runs into the need for his services because of injury possibly. Today though i would think not a single team would be interested in Liles solely because of the cap hit.

You can try to paint as rosy a picture regarding our cap situation as you like but your outlook is not based on reality .

This years cap isn't based on the 50/50 revenue split and was a negotiated number between the league and the PA to try to ease the transition . No one has clue how much the cap will go up next year if it in fact goes up at all .

I also have no idea what you think your trying to say by breaking down where our f/d rank as compared to the rest of the league . The only thing that matters is our overall cap situation and as we sit we don't have the available cap space to sign our 2 remaining rfa's unless they cave or we move out salary somehow .

Next years situation is even tighter . We now sit with 33 mil if the cap remains the same but we only have 10 players signed . If we resign PK/DP they'll probably chew up roughly 15 mil between them which brings us down to 18 mil for the remaining 10 players or 1.8 mil per roster spot which is well below league avg . Gardiner-Kul-Mac-Bolland are also up and it'll take at least 10 mil to keep them which leaves us at 8 mil for 6 more players . Reims will also need a new deal and if he outplays Bernier he'll want a larger contract and will demand at least 3.5 min . If this happens it'll leave us 4.5 mil to sign 5 players .

It's easy if you break down the numbers to understand our cap situation isn't as rosy as you want to make it and many posters were doing the same thing before this off season only to have reality kick them in the nuts and wake them up .

 

[7even]

Well you confuse yourself. If you don't see the options i don't know what to tell you .

I didn't say I didn't see the options, I said I don't think our cap situation is all roses and butterflies. I see:

1. Exercise a regular buyout on JML. Looks bad on the organization, and paying someone for 6 years NOT to play hockey for you is pretty terrible management, especially when that hit is as big as $2.3M. Solves a short term problem and creates a long term one, albeit a small one by comparison.

2. Pull a miracle salary dump trade. As you pointed out, most of the league has less space than us. Sure, some of those teams are done signing players, but the prime salary dump candidate we have (Liles?) is a multi-year contract signed to ~$1M less than Grabo, whom nobody in the league wanted for nothing. That was before the free agent phase, and teams' priorities may well have changed, but it doesn't bode well.

3. Hockey trade. You're probably going to have to deal away a core/semi-core piece like Kulemin away for a similar quality player signed to a cheaper deal. Again, I don't think the market is in our favour, and downgrading because of mismanagement would suck anyways.

I think those are our three most feasible options, and 2/3 aren't the most attractive. Clearly it's not a hopeless situation, it's just not one you want to be put into, especially with training camp drawing closer every day. I do think it's a little disingenuous to say people are just complaining to complain about something, when obviously there's some merit to the notion that we aren't, in fact, in the 10th best cap team.

 

[mix1home]

i think they're both solid players. i'm glad to have them both playing on our team.

but if we didn't sign either of them... then do we just go into this season with $9 million in extra cap space? what two players would be taking their spot? resign MacA? it's not like we've got too many extra forwards who are ready to step up.

bottom line is that the leafs are a good all around team now. we have a real shot at the cup this season. i don't think we have any players that are "weak links" at the moment. if the players you're concerned about are bozak and clarkson... then we don't really have many problems.

i think we can all agree that our team would be worse off this year if we didn't sign Clarkson and Bozak... since it's not like there were a whole lot of better options this off-season.

when we're winning games, i don't think anyone will care about who gets paid how much and the term of their contract.

i just know that when playoff time comes around, everyone will be glad that we've got bozak and clarkson on our team and that we probably wouldn't stand much of a chance without those guy in our line up this year.

Yes. Yes. And other 100500 times yes.

Why people are so obsessed with carrying empty cap space through the season? Other teams will snap both Bozak and Clarkson at their rates off the market if players choose those teams, no question about it.

Both players are filling the need on our roster and if better options present themselves clearing the cap space will be easy. Burke shown that in Anaheim and in Toronto. If Blake, Lebda and Toskala can be moved then any player can.

We need to be as good as we only can as in our division we have 5 playoff teams now from last year (I know, Habs are not really playoff team, but they have this stupid tendency to rack up points in the beginning of the season when no other team cares and then just barely make it at the end).

 

[mix1home]

I think those are our three most feasible options, and 2/3 aren't the most attractive. Clearly it's not a hopeless situation, it's just not one you want to be put into, especially with training camp drawing closer every day. I do think it's a little disingenuous to say people are just complaining to complain about something, when obviously there's some merit to the notion that we aren't, in fact, in the 10th best cap team.

I don't think it is team problem per say. It's more of a problem for RFAs as they got to FA in wrong year. There is not much negotiation power for either player. They played good half a season - too small sample to assess long contracts values on that. They both RFAs and fully under our control.
Bad cap situation around the league IS GOOD THING for us (I believe OP was getting at that) as it limits options for our RFAs to sign with another team. Offer sheet should one come will be from mediocre to bad team and should be in way over 3.5M range at which point leafs management will be in good position to see if we can get 1st round pick and possibly even get into lottery as all non-playoffs teams are eligible now to get first overall.
I think Franson should sign 1 year deal to allow flexibility for this year with extension during the season based on his sustained production.

 

[shakes]

You can try to paint as rosy a picture regarding our cap situation as you like but your outlook is not based on reality .

This years cap isn't based on the 50/50 revenue split and was a negotiated number between the league and the PA to try to ease the transition . No one has clue how much the cap will go up next year if it in fact goes up at all .

I also have no idea what you think your trying to say by breaking down where our f/d rank as compared to the rest of the league . The only thing that matters is our overall cap situation and as we sit we don't have the available cap space to sign our 2 remaining rfa's unless they cave or we move out salary somehow .

Next years situation is even tighter . We now sit with 33 mil if the cap remains the same but we only have 10 players signed . If we resign PK/DP they'll probably chew up roughly 15 mil between them which brings us down to 18 mil for the remaining 10 players or 1.8 mil per roster spot which is well below league avg . Gardiner-Kul-Mac-Bolland are also up and it'll take at least 10 mil to keep them which leaves us at 8 mil for 6 more players . Reims will also need a new deal and if he outplays Bernier he'll want a larger contract and will demand at least 3.5 min . If this happens it'll leave us 4.5 mil to sign 5 players .

It's easy if you break down the numbers to understand our cap situation isn't as rosy as you want to make it and many posters were doing the same thing before this off season only to have reality kick them in the nuts and wake them up .

That's a lot of ifs but everyone else is wrong because they think that the cap will go up like every year. Love it when people act like they know better when they most likely don't.

 

[hotpaws]

Yes. Yes. And other 100500 times yes.

Why people are so obsessed with carrying empty cap space through the season? Other teams will snap both Bozak and Clarkson at their rates off the market if players choose those teams, no question about it.

Both players are filling the need on our roster and if better options present themselves clearing the cap space will be easy. Burke shown that in Anaheim and in Toronto. If Blake, Lebda and Toskala can be moved then any player can.

We need to be as good as we only can as in our division we have now 5 playoff from last year (I know, Habs are not really playoff team, but they have this stupid tendency to rack up points in the beginning of the season when no other team cares and then just barely make it at the end).

People aren't obsessed with carrying cap space , people are obsessed with not handing out long term contracts that will bite us in the butt down the road . Bozak/Clarrkson will be just as easy to trade as Grabo/Komi were and I have no idea why people keep thinking players we have no need for down the road will be so attractive to other teams .

Tosk was an expiring contract , Blake was traded for another salary dump and Lebda was a nothing addition in deal where we acquired an asset with a salary dump and was only included so Burke wouldn't look like an idiot for having to buy out a guy he just signed the previous year . I have no idea why people try to keep spinning these deals as some type of proof we can dump dead money for nothing . If this was true we would have been able to trade TC-Komi-Grabo-Army without having to take back equally bad deals .

It's going to actually be tougher to make the playoffs this year with the new format and the goal isn't just to make the playoffs but to win the cup .

 

[Kessley Snipes*]

People aren't obsessed with carrying cap space , people are obsessed with not handing out long term contracts that will bite us in the butt down the road . Bozak/Clarrkson will be just as easy to trade as Grabo/Komi were and I have no idea why people keep thinking players we have no need for down the road will be so attractive to other teams .

Tosk was an expiring contract , Blake was traded for another salary dump and Lebda was a nothing addition in deal where we acquired an asset with a salary dump and was only included so Burke wouldn't look like an idiot for having to buy out a guy he just signed the previous year . I have no idea why people try to keep spinning these deals as some type of proof we can dump dead money for nothing . If this was true we would have been able to trade TC-Komi-Grabo-Army without having to take back equally bad deals .

It's going to actually be tougher to make the playoffs this year with the new format and the goal isn't just to make the playoffs but to win the cup .

Wow so much misinformation in one post.

"Bozak/Clarrkson will be just as easy to trade as Grabo/Komi were and I have no idea why people keep thinking players we have no need for down the road will be so attractive to other teams "

Grabo/Komi were compliance buyouts. Meaning their buyout doesnt count against our cap. The ability to do this was a gift from the NHL to help teams adjust to the lower cap coming out of the most recent lockout.

Maybe you should inform yourself before looking foolish.

 

[hotpaws]

That's a lot of ifs but everyone else is wrong because they think that the cap will go up like every year. Love it when people act like they know better when they most likely don't.

The only if's are whether Reims outplays Bernier and which players Nonis decides to resign . I was pretty conservative in what I believe the players will demand if they do in fact choose to resign with us .

Like I said , from my understanding the 64 mil cap this year was not based on the new 50/50 revenue split so I have no idea how everyone can assume the cap will go up . If my math is correct the cap would have been just over 61 mil if you used the new revenue split with the old cap .

 

[hotpaws]

Wow so much misinformation in one post.

"Bozak/Clarrkson will be just as easy to trade as Grabo/Komi were and I have no idea why people keep thinking players we have no need for down the road will be so attractive to other teams "

Grabo/Komi were compliance buyouts. Meaning their buyout doesnt count against our cap. The ability to do this was a gift from the NHL to help teams adjust to the lower cap coming out of the most recent lockout.

Maybe you should inform yourself before looking foolish.

Wow , so you're saying we would much rather pay these players not to play with us regardless of whether they count against the cap intead of dealing them and saving millions ?

You should really put a little thought into your posts before you call someone foolish

 

[leafspring*]

You can try to paint as rosy a picture regarding our cap situation as you like but your outlook is not based on reality .

This years cap isn't based on the 50/50 revenue split and was a negotiated number between the league and the PA to try to ease the transition . No one has clue how much the cap will go up next year if it in fact goes up at all .

I also have no idea what you think your trying to say by breaking down where our f/d rank as compared to the rest of the league . The only thing that matters is our overall cap situation and as we sit we don't have the available cap space to sign our 2 remaining rfa's unless they cave or we move out salary somehow .

Next years situation is even tighter . We now sit with 33 mil if the cap remains the same but we only have 10 players signed . If we resign PK/DP they'll probably chew up roughly 15 mil between them which brings us down to 18 mil for the remaining 10 players or 1.8 mil per roster spot which is well below league avg . Gardiner-Kul-Mac-Bolland are also up and it'll take at least 10 mil to keep them which leaves us at 8 mil for 6 more players . Reims will also need a new deal and if he outplays Bernier he'll want a larger contract and will demand at least 3.5 min . If this happens it'll leave us 4.5 mil to sign 5 players .

It's easy if you break down the numbers to understand our cap situation isn't as rosy as you want to make it and many posters were doing the same thing before this off season only to have reality kick them in the nuts and wake them up .

If you think $35,000,000 cap space next year(which will be less if both Kadri/Franson sign) is terrible,then i don't know what to tell you. 15 MILLION on Kessel/Phaneuf? Nonis has already said no player is safe from being traded.

Kessel for sure you re-sign but,Phaneuf is not absolutely neccessary. there are already plenty of players on the roster under 1.8 million and there will be more in the future.

Kessel/Phaneuf/Bolland are the main 3 and only Kessel being re-signed is possible.

We aren't expected to keep the same line-up and if you think we are your in need for the re-think.

 

[leafspring*]

Wow , so you're saying we would much rather pay these players not to play with us regardless of whether they count against the cap intead of dealing them and saving millions ?

You should really put a little thought into your posts before you call someone foolish

Only you said they will be useless. So you assume you are the only one right when you don't know for sure?

This is getting nuts.

 

[hotpaws]

If you think $35,000,000 cap space next year(which will be less if both Kadri/Franson sign) is terrible,then i don't know what to tell you. 15 MILLION on Kessel/Phaneuf? Nonis has already said no player is safe from being traded.

Kessel for sure you re-sign but,Phaneuf is not absolutely neccessary. there are already plenty of players on the roster under 1.8 million and there will be more in the future.

Kessel/Phaneuf/Bolland are the main 3 and only Kessel being re-signed is possible.
We aren't expected to keep the same line-up and if you think we are your in need for the re-think.

Why are ignoring the fact we have only 10 players signed and cap space is 33 mil not 35 .

I never said we couldn't get under the cap , I said if you want to keep the majority of your key players it's going to be a tight fit . You also left out Gards and him and the 3 players you mentioned will probably cost us at least 20 mil and leave us roughly 13 mil to sign 8 players .

 

[Eb]

#1 Center?

Is he not playing as our #1 centre?

 

[Tak7]

My only frustration in Nonis, fully accepting that he's not had much time to really get the salary cap structure of the organization under his own personal control, is that he's left 2 key core players of this team moving forward under a very uncertain limbo.

Other teams vying to be successful, snap these players up and lock them down.

But it's a long summer yet - ultimately, as RFAs, Nonis still has leverage in negotiations, but the closer it gets to training camp without both of them signed, the most upsetting this scenario will become.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Wow so much misinformation in one post.

"Bozak/Clarrkson will be just as easy to trade as Grabo/Komi were and I have no idea why people keep thinking players we have no need for down the road will be so attractive to other teams "

Grabo/Komi were compliance buyouts. Meaning their buyout doesnt count against our cap. The ability to do this was a gift from the NHL to help teams adjust to the lower cap coming out of the most recent lockout.

Maybe you should inform yourself before looking foolish.

You don't think the Leafs would've traded them if they could? You're the misinformed one here.

 

[The Blue Devil]

If you think $35,000,000 cap space next year(which will be less if both Kadri/Franson sign) is terrible,then i don't know what to tell you. 15 MILLION on Kessel/Phaneuf? Nonis has already said no player is safe from being traded.

Kessel for sure you re-sign but,Phaneuf is not absolutely neccessary. there are already plenty of players on the roster under 1.8 million and there will be more in the future.
Kessel/Phaneuf/Bolland are the main 3 and only Kessel being re-signed is possible.

We aren't expected to keep the same line-up and if you think we are your in need for the re-think.

There's a reason they're being paid less then Phaneuf which makes it all the more crucial to sign him.

 

[Funk21]

If phaneuf's demands are more than 6 million per i'd balk at it if i'm TML management. This means you trade at the deadline and gather assets for a #1 defenceman, everybody keeps saying we have strength at D maybe its time we take a slight step back to move forward. I would still like our d without Phaneuf if we had Franson especially if Reilly is able to make the jump.

The core of the forwards are there and frankly if Bolland is looking north of 3 million its not going to happen given the new NHL that is so cap centric!. Don't get me wrong there are always exceptions like Clarkson this past year but I'm not sure if Bolland is going to be the big Free Agent fish this coming year.

 

[jmart21]

If phaneuf's demands are more than 6 million per i'd balk at it if i'm TML management. This means you trade at the deadline and gather assets for a #1 defenceman, everybody keeps saying we have strength at D maybe its time we take a slight step back to move forward. I would still like our d without Phaneuf if we had Franson especially if Reilly is able to make the jump.

The core of the forwards are there and frankly if Bolland is looking north of 3 million its not going to happen given the new NHL that is so cap centric!. Don't get me wrong there are always exceptions like Clarkson this past year but I'm not sure if Bolland is going to be the big Free Agent fish this coming year.

You think a number1 dman is asking to much if his demands are above the 5.9M mark? Prepare to be disappointed.