Salary Cap: Nonis sits at #20 in the league salary cap with 2 players to sign.

[ACC1224]

Sure, but even if Ranger makes the team (didn't he actually prefer to play on the Marlies? I thought that was the word), Holzer doesn't, unless Leafs carry 8 dmen (Phaneuf, Gunnar, Franson, Gardiner, Fraser, Liles, Ranger and... Holzer?)

So it'll be safe to say Holzer and Smith are Marlie bound... freeing up 1.3m or so.

It will depend on how many players they carry.

 

[Joey Hoser]

This is why I hate the Clarkson contract... in no way is a 3rd liner in any way worth 5 + million a season. Just ridiculous. Say good bye to either Mcclement or Kulemin next year... Even if the cap rises its going to be tight.

Considering Clarkson has scored or paced 25-30 goals over the last two seasons and is in all likelyhood going to play on our second line, I'm not sure why you'd refer to him as a 3rd liner.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

The common misconception on these boards is we are up against the cap in a negative stand alone way.This years drop in the cap has been difficult for every team that is dealing with it.

http://www.capgeek.com/

There is plenty of company for Nonis among G.M.'s trying to sort things out.

All the complainers about it on here about our cap situation are just looking for something to complain about that is the norm league wide. Check out the other teams in worse or the same situation.

Way to much is being made of it here.

Another way to look at it is that only 4 teams have less cap space with 21 or less players signed. To me that puts the Leafs in the 3-4 worst cap space situation in the league.

 

[Fogelhund]

I don't know the situation of those other team BUT the Leafs didn't have to sign Bosak or Clarkson. That was Nonis's mistake. He had options, he messed them up.



That is our only hope.

Who is Bosak?

I suppose Nonis would have been better off letting him walk then? Perhaps we could have used Bolland or Colborne as our C for the Kessel line then? I can only imagine the meltdowns many in this forum would have if that was the case.

October... that is when this matters, until all this angst is pointless and misguided.

 

[leafspring*]

I'm confused. We don't have enough cap to sign both of them to what they are rumored to be looking for, and 2/3rds of the league isn't in a position to accept salary...but we're golden

I think even the most optimistic of fans will tell you that it's an unfortunate situation to be in.

Well you confuse yourself. If you don't see the options i don't know what to tell you .

 

[leafspring*]

The Leafs have tied 9.45 mil up in Bozak and Clarkson. Name me one elite skill that they have.

One scores in close and one wins face-offs.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Breaking news: HF Leafs fans unwittingly hold their team to ridiculous standards that most if not all teams would fall short of

Hhahahahahaa
Our team has missed the playoffs 8 of the past 9 seasons, and have won ZERO playoff series in almost 10 years. Yet the vast majority of leaf fans here (minus the leaf fan realists of course) supported that utter futility every step of the way.

Hahahaha. And you say we hold the team to impossible standards. Too good. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

One scores in close and one wins face-offs.

Clarkson is almost 30 and has averaged about 12 goals a season over his career. Ad he's at the age where a DECLINE typically begins... Not improvement.

Bozak typically gets 52% face off. Hardly 'elite'. It's more like 'pretty good, I guess'.

 

[leafspring*]

Clarkson is almost 30 and has averaged about 12 goals a season over his career. Ad he's at the age where a DECLINE typically begins... Not improvement.

Bozak typically gets 52% face off. Hardly 'elite'. It's more like 'pretty good, I guess'.

So go ahead and complain about 2 good players that are signed already then i guess. Did anyone ever think of the possibility that the quality of the signed players dictates why we have only 21 signed at the cap hit we incur. We have a very solid forward group signed minus Naz. We also have a very solid defense signed minus Franson.

The fact that they aren't signed and they are of the higher quality players at each position is lending me to think Nonis is not done re-shaping the club. They will be signed. He has said he is not done. I would expect some hockey trades will have to take place.

 

[leafspring*]

Another way to look at it is that only 4 teams have less cap space with 21 or less players signed. To me that puts the Leafs in the 3-4 worst cap space situation in the league.

You might have to factor in player quality that is signed instead of just the number of players signed.

 

[gabeliscious]

This is why I hate the Clarkson contract... in no way is a 3rd liner in any way worth 5 + million a season. Just ridiculous. Say good bye to either Mcclement or Kulemin next year... Even if the cap rises its going to be tight.

im not sure things are quit as doom and gloom as you make them out to be.

the major cap issue right now is fransons money is being used on liles. the situation is going to be resolved well before next season imo. one of franson or liles is going to get traded. it is inevitable. if nonis can get decent value for franson he will take it imo. we have enough depth right now and in the pipeline that we can handle the loss of franson if it had to come to it.

the only way we might not be able to sign everyone is if the cap doesnt go up which i would find pretty shocking.

you also might not be as fond of kulemin is he was making $4 million or mclemment if he was making $3 million so nonis might decide he would rather lock up core pieces rather then roll players.

 

[jmart21]

Total SHTOI/G
McClemment: 175.59 3.39
Kulemin: 105.02 2.11
Komarov: 76.00 1.48
Bozak: 75.31 1.38

Yeah, I'm the crazy one. The only time he got long shifts was when he lost a FO and we got stuck in our zone. He wasn't on because he's a great PK'er or some defensive stud that people like to make him out to be, he was put out to try and win the FO and get to the bench as soon as possible.

You can't honestly think that a player who took more SHFO than anyone in the league, won more SHFO than anyone in the league and finished with one of the best SHFO% (7) of all centres wasn't a significant piece to a drastically improved PK.

If he was truly just out there to "win the draw and get to the bench ASAP" as you say; he wouldn't have gotten such high SHTOI/g numbers unless he was consistenly losing draws and getting stuck in his own zone; something that the numbers say isn't true.

(not sure how to post .xls files; but this can be easily confirmed by taking the data from NHL.com and checking SHFO numbers for yourself. (I took players with 100 SHFO attempts as the screening point).

And here ya go since it's so hard for you to get actual stats:
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....C&country=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentage

There were 20 centers with a better FO% then Bozak last season. But again thanks.

If you count players with 800+, then he ranks 11th.

My statements simply facts; based on stats.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....sort=totalFaceOffs&viewName=faceOffPercentage

Claude Giroux is the only centre in the league that could have replaced the faceoffs Bozak took (and won). Giroux was the only player in the entire league relied upon more in the faceoff circle than Bozak was this year.

 

[Holymakinaw]

The thing I find hilarious about all this back & forth & back & forth is..........Why the hell do WE care what the Leaf's cap is?

That's not our concern.

That's the GM's.

Let's see how he finishes things up, and maybe THEN comment either way.

Eh?

 

[leafspring*]

The thing I find hilarious about all this back & forth & back & forth is..........Why the hell do WE care what the Leaf's cap is?

That's not our concern.

That's the GM's.

Let's see how he finishes things up, and maybe THEN comment either way.

Eh?

I don't see it as a negative that we still need to sign 2 good players with limited cap space left though. Nonis is not finished obviously. I'll throw out a hypothetical that both Kadri and Franson sign for $3,300,000 each at whatever term(not going to guess).Franson on a 1 year deal would be a UFA next year though,so i'm thinkin thats not a good term for him or the team.

So we have to manage to have approx $7,000,000 for signing both. We are short approx $2,000,000. Thats a very manageable shortfall.

 

[Mess]

I don't see it as a negative that we still need to sign 2 good players with limited cap space left though. Nonis is not finished obviously. I'll throw out a hypothetical that both Kadri and Franson sign for $3,300,000 each at whatever term(not going to guess).Franson on a 1 year deal would be a UFA next year though,so i'm thinkin thats not a good term for him or the team.

So we have to manage to have approx $7,000,000 for signing both. We are short approx $2,000,000. Thats a very manageable shortfall.

I feel sorry for Nonis, however a compliance buyout of Liles would have made things a little bit brighter cap wise, with a regular buyout of Komisarek to follow creating more cap space and for a longer period of time. That's certainly what I would have done in his position, but that is also based on not having the opportunity to talk to other GM to know what might be available as options to move players without buyouts.

2 buyouts in one year is rare for any team to be in that bad a cap situation, but 3 buyouts (2 X compliance & 1 regular one) is unheard of, for any GM trying to dig himself out of the mess he inherited.

Nonis is doing the best he can, playing the poor hand he was dealt. In Nonis we trust, and I'm sure he has something up his sleeve to get the Leafs under the cap ceiling by seasons start. Maybe a big trade is coming !!!

 

[jmart21]

I feel sorry for Nonis, however a compliance buyout of Liles would have made things a little bit brighter cap wise, with a regular buyout of Komisarek to follow creating more cap space and for a longer period of time. That's certainly what I would have done in his position, but that is also based on not having the opportunity to talk to other GM to know what might be available as options to move players without buyouts.

2 buyouts in one year is rare for any team to be in that bad a cap situation, but 3 buyouts (2 X compliance & 1 regular one) is unheard of, for any GM trying to dig himself out of the mess he inherited.

Nonis is doing the best he can, playing the poor hand he was dealt. In Nonis we trust, and I'm sure he has something up his sleeve to get the Leafs under the cap ceiling by seasons start. Maybe a big trade is coming !!!

I still think Liles not being bought out shows how management may not expect to get a deal done with Franson. Liles is still a quality NHL defender, so if we can't have Franson at least we've got Liles.

 

[Mess]

I still think Liles not being bought out shows how management may not expect to get a deal done with Franson. Liles is still a quality NHL defender, so if we can't have Franson at least we've got Liles.

Perhaps Nonis plan is to trade Franson, replace him with Ranger this year and next summer buyout Liles to make roster space for Rielly. Using Liles as a stop gap for this next season until Morgan is ready to become a full time NHLer.

 

[jmart21]

Perhaps Nonis plan is to trade Franson, replace him with Ranger this year and next summer buyout Liles to make roster space for Rielly. Using Liles as a stop gap for this next season until Morgan is ready to become a full time NHLer.

I think this is definetly one of the plans but I don't think it's plan A.

I think based on contract negotiations last year and how they're going this year its a good chance Franson doesn't come cheap without an absolute fight. I can't see Nonis overpaying Franson @ 4-5M per year and I can't see Franson taking anything less than 4M unless someone intervenes and convice him and his agent he won't get the money he's looking for from any team.

I think Nonis' plan A would be to get Franson signed at a Gunnarsson type deal; ~3M and convince Kadri to take a bridge deal for around the same amount (or less) and then find the wiggle room if we need ~1M or so in cap space freed up. Obviously this takes a lot of convincing and hence why it's taking longer than expected.

Plan B: If Franson won't budge on his 4M+ per year demands I think we'll see him moved. This will provide some breathing room to give Kadri something north of 3.5M as he's likely asking for.

Bottom line IMO is that with the signing of Ranger and already having Liles we've still got a good looking blueline without Franson. We need a Kadri going forward more desperatly than we need Franson and for this reason I don't see Franson getting anything above what Nonis and Co feel he's worth.

But thats just my $0.02.

 

[The Blue Devil]

You can't honestly think that a player who took more SHFO than anyone in the league, won more SHFO than anyone in the league and finished with one of the best SHFO% (7) of all centres wasn't a significant piece to a drastically improved PK.

If he was truly just out there to "win the draw and get to the bench ASAP" as you say; he wouldn't have gotten such high SHTOI/g numbers unless he was consistenly losing draws and getting stuck in his own zone; something that the numbers say isn't true.

(not sure how to post .xls files; but this can be easily confirmed by taking the data from NHL.com and checking SHFO numbers for yourself. (I took players with 100 SHFO attempts as the screening point).



My statements simply facts; based on stats.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats....sort=totalFaceOffs&viewName=faceOffPercentage

Claude Giroux is the only centre in the league that could have replaced the faceoffs Bozak took (and won). Giroux was the only player in the entire league relied upon more in the faceoff circle than Bozak was this year.

Bozak was hardly a major reason for the pk.

You can't compare to other players because they are utilized differently by different coaches. It's not fair to only use players that took over 1000 draws to screw the results in your favour. Look at Boston, they have 3-4 centers who can be counted on to win draws so Julien isn't going to heavily rely on just 1 guy.

 

[jmart21]

Bozak was hardly a major reason for the pk.

You can't compare to other players because they are utilized differently by different coaches. It's not fair to only use players that took over 1000 draws to screw the results in your favour. Look at Boston, they have 3-4 centers who can be counted on to win draws so Julien isn't going to heavily rely on just 1 guy.

I didn't filter anything by 1000 draws.

 

[leafspring*]

I feel sorry for Nonis, however a compliance buyout of Liles would have made things a little bit brighter cap wise, with a regular buyout of Komisarek to follow creating more cap space and for a longer period of time. That's certainly what I would have done in his position, but that is also based on not having the opportunity to talk to other GM to know what might be available as options to move players without buyouts.

2 buyouts in one year is rare for any team to be in that bad a cap situation, but 3 buyouts (2 X compliance & 1 regular one) is unheard of, for any GM trying to dig himself out of the mess he inherited.

Nonis is doing the best he can, playing the poor hand he was dealt. In Nonis we trust, and I'm sure he has something up his sleeve to get the Leafs under the cap ceiling by seasons start. Maybe a big trade is coming !!!

Well the choice of how he used his buy-outs fits to what he has been saying about being patient i think. Liles is a effective PMD that is somewhat insulated by Carlyles system and Komisarek was not ever going to play here again for whatever reason.

Komisarek/Grabo are a zero cap hit right now,Scrivens,Frattin,Armstrong,and Tucker are gone next year leaving the team clear of buy0out money owing next season. I think the way it was done was more in preparing for next season.

Thats like the ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure analogy at work.

The cap goes up next year i'm guessing here:$5,000,000 to $7,000,000 calculating in the Coyotes sale(finally) New owners possibly scooping up the Devils,the positive comeback after the lockout and TV contracts.

We have 8 NHL quality UFA's next year and 9 if Franson signs a 1year deal. I would list them but everyone knows capgeek.

Next year our cap position should improve. Phaneuf is already (i would think) already as high as he will get in terms of contract money at $6,500,000. I wouldn't pay him more than that again(and i like him).

Kessel deserves what he can get approx $2,000,000 to $2,500,000 more. Phaneuf's money might be right off the board if they decide to let him walk.It is our position of depth after all. How much will Gardiner be worth if this is his year where he developes nicely(which he will )

Anyways Mess i'm starting to get really indepth and i know you understand this stuff better than i do.

The trade possibility that if it is there is most likely not for Liles.

 

[leafspring*]

Perhaps Nonis plan is to trade Franson, replace him with Ranger this year and next summer buyout Liles to make roster space for Rielly. Using Liles as a stop gap for this next season until Morgan is ready to become a full time NHLer.

He could trade Kulemin and promote D'Amigo to lol.

He could trade Gunnarson who has no clauses to protect moving him too.

He could move Phaneuf who is in the same boat as Gunnar.

 

[leafspring*]

I think this is definetly one of the plans but I don't think it's plan A.

I think based on contract negotiations last year and how they're going this year its a good chance Franson doesn't come cheap without an absolute fight. I can't see Nonis overpaying Franson @ 4-5M per year and I can't see Franson taking anything less than 4M unless someone intervenes and convice him and his agent he won't get the money he's looking for from any team.

I think Nonis' plan A would be to get Franson signed at a Gunnarsson type deal; ~3M and convince Kadri to take a bridge deal for around the same amount (or less) and then find the wiggle room if we need ~1M or so in cap space freed up. Obviously this takes a lot of convincing and hence why it's taking longer than expected.

Plan B: If Franson won't budge on his 4M+ per year demands I think we'll see him moved. This will provide some breathing room to give Kadri something north of 3.5M as he's likely asking for.

Bottom line IMO is that with the signing of Ranger and already having Liles we've still got a good looking blueline without Franson. We need a Kadri going forward more desperatly than we need Franson and for this reason I don't see Franson getting anything above what Nonis and Co feel he's worth.

But thats just my $0.02.

Imagine if we had a cap cieling on getting your $0.02 in here. We could cap it at what? $0.03 per week lol. I'm a good candidate for that.

 

[jmart21]

He could trade Kulemin and promote D'Amigo to lol.

He could trade Gunnarson who has no clauses to protect moving him too.

He could move Phaneuf who is in the same boat as Gunnar.

I don't think trading Gunnar or Phaneuf just to give Franson too much money is a good idea; and I'm fairly confident Nonis probably realizes this as well.

Phaneuf, Ranger, Gunnar, Liles, Gardiner, Fraser, Holzer, Rielly.....there's still a good amount of depth on the blueline without Franson.

EDIT: Also, moving one of our best defensive forwards and replacing him with a rookie.
I just don't see why we sacrafice some very good players just to overpay a player playing on an already deep blueline that we really don't need to overpay.

 

[diceman934]

It wasn't really an either/or - could have amnestied Liles and used a regular buyout on Komi.

Yes it was....as if we bought out Komi as a regular buy out, it would have left us with less cap room this year.