Player Discussion: Noah Dobson

[WangMustGo]

We tried this with Romanov: it was horrible

Emphasis on "good". Romanov was trash up until 20 games ago.

 

[Osakahaus]

Emphasis on "good".

Romanov is very good. I just don't think he works with Dobson because Romanov has the muscles, while Dobson doesn't. In the offseason, I really just hope the isles find a way to repair his awareness. He needs it fixed.

 

[WangMustGo]

Romanov is very good. I just don't think he works with Dobson because Romanov has the muscles, while Dobson doesn't. In the offseason, I really just hope the isles find a way to repair his awareness. He needs it fixed.

If you think Romanov is very good and Dobson sucks we are seeing very different things.

 

[Osakahaus]

If you think Romanov is very good and Dobson sucks we are seeing very different things.

I think Romanov has been a very good addition to the islanders for Defense alone. Dobson sucks as a defender. Sure he gets points, but most of the major malfunctions for power play and even in our own end come from Dobson or Mayfield.

 

[CupHolders]

Romanov has the potential to be a good defensive defenseman. But like Dobson, he’s trying to figure out how to be a pro.

I’m not sure what Dobson will become. But in Juniors he was known more for being a minute munching two-way defensive defender over an offensive defenseman.

So the notion that he improves is not completely outrageous. But likewise, it is far from certain.

 

[TJHKY]

 

[Lame Lambert]

Watching the replay of game 5 and this is all I can think of

 

[12Dog]

Romanov has the potential to be a good defensive defenseman. But like Dobson, he’s trying to figure out how to be a pro.

I’m not sure what Dobson will become. But in Juniors he was known more for being a minute munching two-way defensive defender over an offensive defenseman.

So the notion that he improves is not completely outrageous. But likewise, it is far from certain.

Looks like a completely different player without Barry and a veteran partner
Key might be veteran partner

 

[CupHolders]

Looks like a completely different player without Barry and a veteran partner
Key might be veteran partner

If you look at my posting history about Dobson, you would see around the deadline that I mentioned Ryan McDonagh as a perfect partner for him. So no disagreement on my part. Only problem with McDonagh is his contract length.

 

[QuadDeuces]

Something went severely wrong with Dobson around the middle of this season. He went from dynamite offensively and good enough defensively to being a complete dumpster fire in all 3 zones.

 

[beach]

Agreed that these are two different things, but why are these not both valid criticisms of his game? I don't think "showing emotion and fire" means crying like Ryan Smyth. I think it means having a mean streak to your game where you thrash people in front of the net and initiate contact on the boards. He shies away from all that shit like he's allergic to contact.

Two distinct plays I remember from last night:

One was the 2nd goal against where he gave up the entire front of the net on a basically nothing play. He was looking at the puck at his feet instead of looking to put a body on someone and clear the net. Second play is something that happens all the time with him. Puck goes behind our net as the other team forechecks. Dobson does a play where he tries to kind of fake carrying the puck one way and then tries to go the other way while ducking under or spinning away from contact. Yesterday I recall it because they had just switched the camera to behind the net and you saw it clearly. The move didn't work, it was low percentage, he turned over the puck, and he was taken out of the play from a check. To me, that's where the "fire" and "mean streak" come in. Maybe there's semantics in what adjectives we are using, but the intent is clear: he has no interest in playing the body. He needs to absorb that contact and make a safe easy play, but he's trying to skill his way out of it.

He's 6'4 and 195.

For comaprison:
Pelech 6'2 210
Pulock 6'1 213
Romanov 6'0 208
Mayfield 6'4 209
Aho 5'10 186

He needs to be trending toward Mayfield and not toward Aho. He has the body and frame to be an all around stud with offensive skill. Shit Leddy was the same weight but 4 inches shorter, and he was also a guy that was criticized for having no defensive nastiness. Dobson is lanky and needs to fill out so he can be stronger and harder to play against. But he also needs to be tough to play against through his choices. Maybe that will come with a stronger frame and more weight, but right now it looks like a style thing. I have a sense that if Dobson could play a whole game and avoid being checked, he would prefer it.

There's a reason why he doesn't kill penalties. I was looking at this the other day. I'm doing some inference here, so interested in other's takes. Dobson and Aho rarely kill penalties. It's the other 4 that do it. Aho gets 31 seconds of PK time a game and Dobson 29 seconds. Dobson's PP goals against per 60 is 3.57 and Aho's is 1.75. Obviously with 30 seconds per game, that's not a ton of data, but still pretty interesting. I was also looking at the stat of shots created while short handed (shots on goal, shots blocked, shots missed, etc.). Here are the stats for the season next to their SH TOI per 60:

Mayfield: 2:52 SH TOI per 60 | 1 shot created
Pelech: 2:42 | 3
Romanov: 2:03 | 4
Pulock: 1:44 | 10
Aho: 0:31 | 4
Dobson: 0:29 | 42

I'm trying to interpret that (others are welcome -- I'm not that smart). He's on the PK basically 10 seconds per game (given his 20 minutes of ice time), and has twice as money shots created shorthanded then the rest of our defense combined. One theory: he's out there when the power play is expiring and the Isles are moving up the ice. So basically, he's extremely sheltered, still. In his 4th full season as our tallest defenseman. But I don't think the above is just size related. And it certainly isn't age related. If Dobson put on 10 pounds but played the same way (so essentially the same weight as Romanov and 4 inches taller), he likely still won't get PK time over Romanov because of how Romanov plays the game.

I think Dobson's biggest problem is lack of game acuity. He does not read plays properly and seems surprised when things go south. He'll be chasing a puck behind the net and lack urgency, even when it is clear that the opponent is going to arrive at the puck simultaneously, forcing a panic move that leads to a giveaway. Or, he'll make a cross ice pass in front of his own goalie when the opponent is collapsing in the slot. Lot's of mental mistakes and slow reaction time.

 

[IslesNorway]

Something went severely wrong with Dobson around the middle of this season. He went from dynamite offensively and good enough defensively to being a complete dumpster fire in all 3 zones.

Indeed. They really need to figure out why that happened. If he is to evolve into what he can become, then he needs to sort things out, and the coaching staff too.

 

[seafoam]

I think Dobson's biggest problem is lack of game acuity. He does not read plays properly and seems surprised when things go south. He'll be chasing a puck behind the net and lack urgency, even when it is clear that the opponent is going to arrive at the puck simultaneously, forcing a panic move that leads to a giveaway. Or, he'll make a cross ice pass in front of his own goalie when the opponent is collapsing in the slot. Lot's of mental mistakes and slow reaction time.

He doesn’t use his size to protect the puck and skate with it, he treats it like a grenade in his own zone.

Dude needs to watch Nick Leddy.

 

[doublechili]

Re: Dobson (and Romanov for that matter), young defensemen generally develop in stops and starts, and sometimes you're in a trough.

 

[Kevin27NYI]

He doesn’t use his size to protect the puck and skate with it, he treats it like a grenade in his own zone.

Dude needs to watch Nick Leddy.

Leddy skates lower to the ground, Dobber is up straight

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

Leddy skates lower to the ground, Dobber is up straight

I used to think Leddy was going to fall ass over tea kettle at some points, super low skater

 

[Heart of Vukota]

Dobson will be okay with some tutelage. Even Hedman was bad in his first couple of seasons. With the lack of defensive depth on this team, Dobson simply gets to much time.

 

[crashthenet]

Something went severely wrong with Dobson around the middle of this season. He went from dynamite offensively and good enough defensively to being a complete dumpster fire in all 3 zones.

Hopefully someone else runs the d next year

 

[MJF]

Something went severely wrong with Dobson around the middle of this season. He went from dynamite offensively and good enough defensively to being a complete dumpster fire in all 3 zones.

That's when Lambert switched his partner from Romanov (who was still trying to find his own way in the early part of the season) to Aho (who is a defensive nightmare).

 

[YearlyLottery]

I think part of the problem is when you are a diehard fan on a message board everything tends to get taken in a game by game stance rather than an overall stance.

Romanov is a perfect example of this. Many here thought he was garbage and not worthy of a mid first round pick. Now we are ecstatic he is back in the lineup at like 50%.

Dobson has fared much better in the playoffs than I expected. He will be fine.

 

[PK Cronin]

I think part of the problem is when you are a diehard fan on a message board everything tends to get taken in a game by game stance rather than an overall stance.

Romanov is a perfect example of this. Many here thought he was garbage and not worthy of a mid first round pick. Now we are ecstatic he is back in the lineup at like 50%.

Dobson has fared much better in the playoffs than I expected. He will be fine.

What have you done for me lately?

 

[Lights911]

I think part of the problem is when you are a diehard fan on a message board everything tends to get taken in a game by game stance rather than an overall stance.

Romanov is a perfect example of this. Many here thought he was garbage and not worthy of a mid first round pick. Now we are ecstatic he is back in the lineup at like 50%.

Dobson has fared much better in the playoffs than I expected. He will be fine.

I can't imagine what you were expecting, he's been a nightmare so far these playoffs.

 

[saintunspecified]

'Dobson's defensive play at ES is still a work in progress, and I think he'll improve.

I don't know that he'll ever be a good PP QB. He's excellent when the zone is established, and he gets the puck with space, but great PP QB's have to be able to settle the play down by beating their man 1 v 1 under pressure. That doesn't necessarily mean getting by them, but it does mean gaining an angle to make a pass to a player facing up, or make their own shot. Tbh, NYI haven't really had a player who excelled at doing that since Mark Streit. The only forward who I remember playing that role was Nielsen. NYI need to find that kind of player.

 

[Mr Misunderstood]

'Dobson's defensive play at ES is still a work in progress, and I think he'll improve.

I don't know that he'll ever be a good PP QB. He's excellent when the zone is established, and he gets the puck with space, but great PP QB's have to be able to settle the play down by beating their man 1 v 1 under pressure. That doesn't necessarily mean getting by them, but it does mean gaining an angle to make a pass to a player facing up, or make their own shot. Tbh, NYI haven't really had a player who excelled at doing that since Mark Streit. The only forward who I remember playing that role was Nielsen. NYI need to find that kind of player.

I watch Burns walk the blueline while pressured in complete awe, we do not have a guy who can do half of what he does on the PP.

 

[Isles72]

.I watch Burns walk the blueline while pressured in complete awe, we do not have a guy who can do half of what he does on the PP.

the isles don't seem to be pressuring the point giving him all day to walk the blue line.

put pressure on him and your leaving 2 guys like Aho and Necas open for him to pass to