Blue Jays Discussion: No More AA, Everyone is very Sad (and by Sad, I mean Mad)

[Sokil]

I meant the two years prior to this year.



Because I've been reading a lot of different facts for a while now and I messed up years.

I dont know how 3rd/4th and only getting to 90 wins once in a weak div is much better than the Jays

 

[DaveMatthew]

I'm sure the Jays developmental record would look better if they had so many top-3 picks, too.

Even so, Dalton Pompey was drafted in the Jays first draft under Anthopoulos. He's currently 22 years old. If you expected more out of the Jays drafting the last 5-6 years, you don't understand the prospect development in baseball.

Here are the positive WAR contributions at the MLB level for all players drafted by the Royals since 2010 (when AA took over in Toronto):

2010: Christian Colon (1.3), Kevin Chapman (0.8), Jon Gray (0.2)
2011:
2012:
2013:
2014: Brandon Finnegan (0.8)

And the Jays:

2010: Aaron Sanchez (3.2), Noah Syndergaard (2.5), Justin Nicolino (0.3), Sam Dyson (1.6), Dalton Pompey (0.7), Kris Bryant (6.0)
2011: Daniel Norris (0.5), Anthony DeSclafani (1.0), Aaron Nola (1.8), Kevin Pillar (5.9)
2012: Marcus Stroman (3.2)
2013: Kendall Graveman (1.3)
2014:

I'd be interested to see how Cleveland did over that same time period.

 

[Discoverer]

Good points. You guys are right. I wouldn't count Bryant though. They didn't and couldn't sign him.

Same with Nola. But the overall point is that the Jays drafting has been outstanding, regardless of whether or not that directly reflected on the current roster.

 

[Fantomas]

Now, even though AA did trade much of the Blue Jays farm, I have to give him credit for picking the right guys to deal. Most of the players AA traded had some issues and none have gone on to become stars elsewhere. Syndergaard might, but that remains to be seen. Maybe Barreto too.

History will judge.

 

[Fantomas]

Same with Nola. But the overall point is that the Jays drafting has been outstanding, regardless of whether or not that directly reflected on the current roster.

Their drafting has been fine. They did fail to develop some key players, although maybe I am asking for too much.

 

[Muston Atthews]

I dont know how 3rd/4th and only getting to 90 wins once in a weak div is much better than the Jays

I didn't say it was much better than the Jays did I? I was saying that the AL East is not THAT much better than the Central in those years. Fact of the matter is, Cleveland was in the very bottom tier of payroll in the last 5 years where the Jays were in the top tier and yet the Indians (going off someone elses numbers) only had 2 less wins over that time.

 

[Woodman19]

You are all looking at the wrong things in trying to compare the results of both GM's.

Look at the philosophy of the transactions they made. AA typically has overpaid in prospects for less than perfect expensive veterans that have tied down the budget (Donaldson excluded) and Shapiro was trading veterans on the decline for packages of what would be very good future major leaguers.

 

[landy92mack29]

Now, even though AA did trade much of the Blue Jays farm, I have to give him credit for picking the right guys to deal. Most of the players AA traded had some issues and none have gone on to become stars elsewhere. Syndergaard might, but that remains to be seen. Maybe Barreto too.

History will judge.

AA had little to do with who they drafted. It's Tinnish, LaCava, Parker and the scouts are the people who deserve the credit for the good drafting.

 

[BertCorbeau]

You are all looking at the wrong things in trying to compare the results of both GM's.

Look at the philosophy of the transactions they made. AA typically has overpaid in prospects for less than perfect expensive veterans that have tied down the budget (Donaldson excluded) and Shapiro was trading veterans on the decline for packages of what would be very good future major leaguers.

And quite frankly he could be a good fit for the Jays given that there are some big names here that he could move for very good packages.

I'm still upset and he'll have to wow me this off-season for me to get behind him .. But it is what it is right now.

 

[Fantomas]

You are all looking at the wrong things in trying to compare the results of both GM's.

Look at the philosophy of the transactions they made. AA typically has overpaid in prospects for less than perfect expensive veterans that have tied down the budget (Donaldson excluded) and Shapiro was trading veterans on the decline for packages of what would be very good future major leaguers.

I think people should stop comparing. It is very difficult to account for all the variables. Too much context is missing.

I think it is nevertheless important to acknowledge that Anthopoulos was far from the perfect strategist. If he wanted Epstein-type money then he doesn't deserve it. I would drive him to the airport myself after such a request.

 

[metafour]

Now, even though AA did trade much of the Blue Jays farm, I have to give him credit for picking the right guys to deal. Most of the players AA traded had some issues and none have gone on to become stars elsewhere. Syndergaard might, but that remains to be seen. Maybe Barreto too.

History will judge.

Are you kidding me? Yan Gomes was worth 3.3 and 4.5 WAR (ie: a star level catcher) the two seasons prior to this year wherein he was hurt. Syndergaard was worth 3.1 WAR and is ALREADY a top pitcher, who will only get better. Travis d'Arnaud was worth 2.3 WAR, compare that to Russell Martin's 3.5 WAR (whom we had to pay $80 million for). Adeiny Hechavarria was worth 3 WAR this season, that is better than Tulowitzki who we will be paying out to ass for during all of his declining years.

 

[Woodman19]

I think people should stop comparing. It is very difficult to account for all the variables. Too much context is missing.

I think it is nevertheless important to acknowledge that Anthopoulos was far from the perfect strategist. If he wanted Epstein-type money then he doesn't deserve it. I would drive him to the airport myself after such a request.

I am taking the view that AA was the right man to rebuild the franchise. I now think that Shapiro is the right man to keep us at this level with his much more analytical approach to player valuation.

 

[Fantomas]

AA had little to do with who they drafted. It's Tinnish, LaCava, Parker and the scouts are the people who deserve the credit for the good drafting.

My comments have been mostly about trades and development. AA does have some say on development, and even regarding drafting guys like LaCava are his right-hand men.

 

[Fantomas]

I am taking the view that AA was the right man to rebuild the franchise. I now think that Shapiro is the right man to keep us at this level with his much more analytical approach to player valuation.

What do you mean?

 

[Fantomas]

Are you kidding me? Yan Gomes was worth 3.3 and 4.5 WAR (ie: a star level catcher) the two seasons prior to this year wherein he was hurt. Syndergaard was worth 3.1 WAR and is ALREADY a top pitcher, who will only get better. Travis d'Arnaud was worth 2.3 WAR, compare that to Russell Martin's 3.5 WAR (whom we had to pay $80 million for). Adeiny Hechavarria was worth 3 WAR this season, that is better than Tulowitzki who we will be paying out to ass for during all of his declining years.

I forgot about Yan Gomes. D'Arnaud has been really injury-prone, while Hechevarria was terrible before this season (we'll see about him going forward).

I think that in a comparative analysis of player value, AA's trades still look pretty good.

 

[Woodman19]

What do you mean?

http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2015/8/31/9232287/the-411-on-blue-jays-new-club-president-mark-shapiro

"What the information and data and technology does, what brilliant analysts do, is give us better input to allow us to make good decisions."

"You read analytics, you read an article in (Baseball) Prospectus and think, 'How are we doing?' I wake up and have anxiety because there's constantly being new frontiers being pushed. And there's an openness to who can make us better…We look for people who have demonstrated, through video or scouting or analytics, that they're going to continue to elevate our thinking and make us better."

 

[Fantomas]

Pretty sure AA was into analytics too. A lot of GMs are nowadays.

 

[Schennanigans]

****** news for sure, but at the end of the day AA is the one who is declining to sign here. He wasn't going to get the same power he had before, but is that enough of a reason to stop what you started here... For him it was I guess. But changes are made to people's responsibilities in a lot of work places and people adapt and make compromises. AA wasn't willing to, and now he's gone.

 

[Fantomas]

I forgot about Yan Gomes. D'Arnaud has been really injury-prone, while Hechevarria was terrible before this season (we'll see about him going forward).

I think that in a comparative analysis of player value, AA's trades still look pretty good.

To add to this, where AAs trades do not look very good is the contracts that the organization took on.

 

[metafour]

What do you mean?

Shapiro is a sabermetric guy, in fact he was one of the first to champion the use of analytics to evaluate players. Anthopoulos by comparison leans much more towards traditional scouting, although he has eased up of late to acquire more guys who can play defense and such.

There was a time when this franchise saw Aaron Sanchez as the superior prospect to Syndergaard. An analytics-based front office would have valued Syndergaard (much better command and control) over the "raw upside" of Aaron Sanchez's wildness.

 

[ranold26]

McCown has a hell of a show/lineup today.

 

[Gabriel426]

The thing is the Jays is build to contend at the moment. Anything less than another ALCS is a failure, barring injuries, ofcourse. Thus, if Rogers and Shapiro decides that this team overachieved and unless they paid up for Price and others, the team is going nowhere and it is time to break it down. I will personally start a riot outside SkyDome. Bc all Rogers need to do is resign Price and others and go out and get another bullpen piece. If they don't even want try to do that, what's the point of owning a team.

For me, I think it will be the directions of where the Jays are heading that concerns me the most at the moment.

 

[trellaine201]

Too bad AA didn't get the power. He obviously lost some power thus would be a step backwards. Exactly what happened.

 

[go_leafs_go02]

That felt like a very controlled Rogers interview with AA on Tim & Sid. No tough questions.

 

[Muston Atthews]

That felt like a very controlled Rogers interview with AA on Tim & Sid. No tough questions.

It's Tim and Sid, lol.