Blue Jays Discussion: No More AA, Everyone is very Sad (and by Sad, I mean Mad)

[Kurtz]

It is insane how underrated Tulo is by the Toronto fan base (probably because they only saw 60 games of him). Go ask any GM who they want at SS next season and they will say Tulo. He is in no way a bad contract. He will still be a very good DH as he ages. He may be slightly overpaid in 4-6 years but it still won't be a bad contract.

I could see him as our 1B in 3 years (assuming he's not traded...which he might be)

 

[Muston Atthews]

The thing is though, given the tweets from Rosenthal, Shapiro had no desire to get more involved in the day to day management of teams. He handed the keys to the current guy in Cleveland in full.

Something stinks here

The analogy about a player opting out of his contract that someone made earlier in this thread fits to a tee IMO.

 

[deletethis]

From Griffin:



If true then I absolutely get AA's decision, because he was used to having the final say on things. Hard to change now.

I would imagine that some of AA's deals would not have gone through if he did not have as much power as he did. For better or worse.

I bet Alex A. didn't have the final say on any major moves before Shapiro. Alex A. repeatedly mentioned the board approving taking on money when discussing trades of the past. This is simply an excuse to bail. He may have a good reason to bail like he doesn't sense that he could get along with Shapiro.

As for the article, Griffin has always been an uncritical apologist for fellow Montreal boy Alex A. I haven't read one critical article written by Griffin regarding the GM since he took over for a GM Griffin routinely roasted (Ricciardi).

In the end, Alex A.'s results have been greatly exaggerated by largely positive media coverage. His moves of 3 years ago were mostly busts at making the Jays competitive until the farm sale this summer. The Blue Jays will enter the New Year looking for at least 3 major league starting pitchers as well as 3 to 4 relievers. The upper minors are mostly bare. The team isn't in great shape to repeat as division champions.

 

[Jozay]

We were 10th in payroll this year... what do you mean we won't be spending money? We also have 2/5ths of a rotation currently and a crappy pen, we'll be spending money alright.

I mean, I dont see us spending much more than we are right now, which I think AA wanted to do. Personally believe AA wanted to go all out, Rogers didnt want that, so they hired a guy who could work under small budgets. Plus Shapiro reportedly got mad at AA for trading prospects away, aka cheap players.

Im sure they'll spend some money to fill in the holes, but I dont think we'll be seeing any expensive options.

 

[Canada4Gold]

also I didn't get a spot on the HF Blue Jays management team?

I. Am. Disappoint.

 

[theaub]

This team is bringing back the exact same offense that scored over 120 runs more than their closest competitors, and they have about $32M to find two starting pitchers and a couple relievers.

Barring something completely unexpected this team will be the easy favourite to win the East next year.

 

[Gabriel426]

I can really argue both ways in this Final say debate. But to me, the issue here is not whose have the final day, but rather the directions and visions that differ between AA and Shapiro. That's in itself scares me, bc the last thing Rogers should do is treat this Jays as a fluke and break them up while you can max the assets.

 

[deletethis]

Alex A.'s deadline deals in hindsight look like the deals an outgoing GM makes because he doesn't give a hoot about the future.

 

[ranold26]

AA on PTS

 

[hockeywiz542]

but apparently one bone of contention was that incoming blue jays president mark shapiro gave anthopoulos some grief over the prospects dealt around the deadline as the blue jays made their run, and that seems especially small-minded. As keith law commented, getting a new boss, and one who might have been second-guessing you while you were winning, isn't the best situation.

and who was it that shapiro was complaining about losing? Lefties daniel norris and matt boyd, sent to the detroit tigers in the david price deal? Yes, both were tough to give up, certainly, but you don't get price for nothing, and remember that by dealing price, the tigers were losing their shot at reaping a compensation pick in the 2016 draft by offering the free agent-to-be a qualifying offer. Miguel castro? Young relief arms who throw 97 mph are nice to have, but good farm systems are supposed to have hard-throwing relievers to deal if it gets you one of the best shortstops in the game, like troy tulowitzki. These aren't deals you complain about; they're opportunity costs because you have a legitimate shot at winning it all, costs the blue jays have to pay in part because it hasn't been easy to coax free agents to come north of the border.

If this is about those trades, it's silly and small-minded to kvetch about them. If you want to bundle them with some of the bigger risks and worse outcomes of anthopoulos' trade history -- with the r.a. Dickey deal that put noah syndergaard and travis d'arnaud on the new york mets ranking as the most unfortunate -- that's long since done and no doubt regretted. Like anybody else in baseball, get over it and move on to the next day.

I'd suggest it's easier -- not that it's easy, but easier -- to accumulate tantalizing prospects to dangle in deals than it is to get the best third baseman or the best shortstop or one of the best pitchers to come play in toronto of their own volition. In the broad strokes, prospects are perhaps overvalued now; they don't all deliver on their promise. Case in point: Do you remember the rest of what the oakland a's got from the chicago cubs when they received josh donaldson in the rich harden deal? For as much hype as there was at the time around eric patterson, sean gallagher and matt murton, you probably shouldn't.

the opportunity to win now and win this year was there; anthopoulos built it and he acted on it. You don't take those opportunities lightly. If shapiro is whining about the cost of doing business, he might want to review what the jays' window of opportunity is with jose bautista, 35, and edwin encarnacion, 33 in january; both are free agents after 2016.

In terms of long-term commitments, the blue jays are built around tulowitzki, donaldson and russell martin -- guys you win now with. Remember, there is no dynastic rival in the al east, not now and not next year. Anthopoulos recognized that and made a bold play to win, not just around finding chris colabello, but by playing for bigger stakes. if the focus is on lamenting the cost of contending now, shapiro risks not making the most of an opportunity to compete and contend now.

 

[Del Preston]

Alex A.'s deadline deals in hindsight look like the deals an outgoing GM makes because he doesn't give a hoot about the future.

They look like moves a GM makes to contend for a World Series.

 

[Gabriel426]

I bet Alex A. didn't have the final say on any major moves before Shapiro. Alex A. repeatedly mentioned the board approving taking on money when discussing trades of the past. This is simply an excuse to bail. He may have a good reason to bail like he doesn't sense that he could get along with Shapiro.

As for the article, Griffin has always been an uncritical apologist for fellow Montreal boy Alex A. I haven't read one critical article written by Griffin regarding the GM since he took over for a GM Griffin routinely roasted (Ricciardi).

In the end, Alex A.'s results have been greatly exaggerated by largely positive media coverage. His moves of 3 years ago were mostly busts at making the Jays competitive until the farm sale this summer. The Blue Jays will enter the New Year looking for at least 3 major league starting pitchers as well as 3 to 4 relievers. The upper minors are mostly bare. The team isn't in great shape to repeat as division champions.

Stroman and Dickey are back and there is Hutch. Hutch is good enough to be a 4th and 5th starter in pretty much every team in Baseball. Pretty sure one of if not both Price and Estrada will be back. As for bullpen, they would be stupid not to resign Lowe and the rest of the Pen will be back. They just need to add another piece.

Even with Price and Estrada not resigning, having the offence of the Jays is good enough to make them the fav. To win the East.

 

[tml19]

Uhh, I know very well know who Tulowitzki is, and I can assure you that my baseball knowledge goes well beyond the Blue Jays. Every GM in the game would take Correa over a 31-year old SS who is starting to get hurt at an increasing pace. Correa just put up 3.3 WAR in 99 games played as a 21 year old; he looks like a potential HOF type talent.

Tulowitzki is in no way a bad contract? We'll be paying him $20+ mill a year until he is 36 years old. Injuries are 7already settling in for him at 31 years old. Shortstops decline significantly. Jose Reyes put up 3.5 WAR just a season ago, and now no one wants him. That contract for Tulowitzki is not going to look pretty in ~2 years time.

Did you miss the part where I said who they would want next year. Also Tulo is very different then other short stops. He hits for power more so then contact. He does not need his legs as much as other short stops would. He should age very well.

 

[leafsfan5]

hurts to have AA leave, he won executive of the year today too lol

 

[Natey]

This team is bringing back the exact same offense that scored over 120 runs more than their closest competitors, and they have about $32M to find two starting pitchers and a couple relievers.

Barring something completely unexpected this team will be the easy favourite to win the East next year.

Two starters? Are you including Price or Estrada as a starter in that or just Stroman, Dickey, Hutch/Sanchez?

 

[Gabriel426]

Alex A.'s deadline deals in hindsight look like the deals an outgoing GM makes because he doesn't give a hoot about the future.

Those looked like deals a GM made to win it all. Wonder what would you say if the Jays are in the WS.

 

[deletethis]

They look like moves a GM makes to contend for a World Series.

They look like the moves a GM makes to contend for a World Series in 1 season out of the next 5.

 

[Canada4Gold]

I feel the need to point out to those saying things like "AA built up the farm in 2 short years from the Dickey and Marlins trades, he would have done it again"

Look at those players that became the center of the farm this year. Norris, Pompey, Sanchez, Castro, Osuna. They were all here before the Dickey/Marlins trades, AA didn't pull them out of his ass and develop them in a short 2 year span, they were already here in the lower levels of the farm system and they developed into top prospects.

There were a couple guys brought in after that. Hoffman, Pentecost, and SRF(Pentecost and SRF still here) in a great 2014 draft. He brought Travis(still here) in via trade and I supposed you could include Harris, and Vlad Jr(both still here) but they were just barely here before the pitching purge in late July. But the vast majority of our top 10 system we had before 2015 started was based on AA's drafting and IFA signings before 2013.

What that means is if AA stayed, and in 2 years time had the system full of prospects again by 2017 where are most of those prospects right now? Down in the lower levels of the minors. They're already here, AA has already brought most of them in. If AA is so good at building a farm system(and he is) then we'll likely still reap the benefits of that in the years to come.

We have a handful of those top guys still there, Pompey, Alford, Harris, SRF, Tellez, Pentecost, Vlad Jr, Urena, etc.

But names most haven't heard of Hollon, Maese, Bergen, Perdomo, etc, etc are going to become the Norris', Osuna's, Castro's of the future, guys AA already brought in.

 

[Del Preston]

Marlins GM position just opened up.

They look like the moves a GM makes to contend for a World Series in 1 season out of the next 5.

You're going to fault AA for going for it this year? Haha.

 

[Natey]

They look like the moves a GM makes to contend for a World Series in 1 season out of the next 5.

**** it. Lets bring back Hoffman and Lawrie. Go Jays Go!

 

[deletethis]

Stroman and Dickey are back and there is Hutch. Hutch is good enough to be a 4th and 5th starter in pretty much every team in Baseball. Pretty sure one of if not both Price and Estrada will be back. As for bullpen, they would be stupid not to resign Lowe and the rest of the Pen will be back. They just need to add another piece.

Even with Price and Estrada not resigning, having the offence of the Jays is good enough to make them the fav. To win the East.

I too sincerely hope they sign at least one of Price or Estrada. Estrada is more likely because here is where his career turned around.

The Jays had a great offense in the first half of the 2015 season but languished at just below .500 until they got reliable starting pitching.

 

[Canada4Gold]

They look like the moves a GM makes to contend for a World Series in 1 season out of the next 5.

yeah we're in such a horrible position right now with the best offense in baseball, one of the best defenses in baseball, an average pen, and 50 million freed up to spend on the pitching.

Shapiro might decide to go a different route, but it's not like AA's July handcuffed us moving forward.

 

[Mach85]

Could somebody please get a hold of Ja Rule so I can make some sense of this? Somebody get Ja on the phone!

 

[Gabriel426]

**** it. Lets bring back Hoffman and Lawrie. Go Jays Go!

I am sure Reyes at SS, Castro, Norris, and others would help the Jays build a dynasty for the next 5 yrs.

 

[King Mapes]

I bet Alex A. didn't have the final say on any major moves before Shapiro. Alex A. repeatedly mentioned the board approving taking on money when discussing trades of the past. This is simply an excuse to bail. He may have a good reason to bail like he doesn't sense that he could get along with Shapiro.

As for the article, Griffin has always been an uncritical apologist for fellow Montreal boy Alex A. I haven't read one critical article written by Griffin regarding the GM since he took over for a GM Griffin routinely roasted (Ricciardi).

In the end, Alex A.'s results have been greatly exaggerated by largely positive media coverage. His moves of 3 years ago were mostly busts at making the Jays competitive until the farm sale this summer. The Blue Jays will enter the New Year looking for at least 3 major league starting pitchers as well as 3 to 4 relievers. The upper minors are mostly bare. The team isn't in great shape to repeat as division champions.

That's simply taking on money. Of course he needs to ask when adding payroll... That's completely different.