Player Discussion Nils Lundkvist

[LeprechauninBlue]

Holy hell, bring out the chainsaws. This is you reacting from his what, first 12 games in the NHL? Ooh, such patience! If you guys were GMs the lineup would look like a slot machine. *BRRRRRR PIIING* 12 games as a rookie. Recently lambasted. The new whipping boy. Seeped into NY culture enough? Because of last game? Because his two good games before those don't count? Or just being partial, bitter Jones boys being extra bitter leashing frustration like this?

Living in a megalomanically big city, I understand. Your city is a country in many parts of this world. You're all living so tightly packed in that mess of oil, concrete, authority, conflict, demoralization and dehumanization. To me, that's crazy. I would define it as absolutely unsustainble. I couldn't feel comfortable in a city of 100.000, I moved out, it felt too cold and distant already at that level for me in terms of human connection. The emanating stress seeping in everywhere from the very pace of people walking faster on sidewalks, the growing dehumanization into numbers and people just being actors playing the game in escalating numbers. For our individual "success". Yeah, sure. At what cost for all of us? I just ask. The career.

No one knows anyone compared to my town where I recognize and know quite a few that I meet. I know you know your "hood", but you don't know your entire community. Pretty f***ing far from it. You get used to it growing up in it, but it will all change your cultural thinking. In all ways. I want a son that doesn't react, but reflects and thinks. Hence where I am.

I understand the urge to compete all the time in your extremely competitive culture. The impatience is just so also so extreme to me. I just don't understand the shortsighted mind in... everything in New York. Bottom up. Quarterly reports? Are you kidding? What a joke. Daddy needs to chill. Alot. But you can't, because then you won't make ends meet in your culture. I'm not accusing anyone, it's the common submission of what being shortsighted and duped is.

If I wanted a person with patience, my first choice wouldn't be a person from New York. What do I mean with all of this? I mean, the team is crushing it. Management knows what Lundkvist can do if he gets into the zone. He needs to learn to adapt to the pace. I would say easily more important than what Jones can do, because Lundkvist could pour in goals if he's used to the pace. I'm not saying Jones isn't deserving of a spot, because he definitely is. Hell yes he does. Lundkvist just has a hidden elite quality neither Fox nor Jones has. His shot is very, very dangerous.

Weird post? You're welcome. Cultural differences.

Was this post about Lundkvist? Far from all of it. It was more about what is important? The term achievement isn't objective.

I tip my hat for that post sir!

 

[egelband]

If I’m the Rangers, long term I’m thinking Jones-Nils is a nice balanced pairing. The key is both of them shoring up their defense but I think they’ve both shown they know how to defend. Nemeth is the support system for this year, then he settles into the 7D and injury fill-in role.

 

[Spektre]

With Fox and Trouba signed long term, would the Rangers consider trading Lundkvist for a similar young asset in a more needed position?

 

[surlysailor]

With Fox and Trouba signed long term, would the Rangers consider trading Lundkvist for a similar young asset in a more needed position?

Possibly, esp with Schneider coming up. Tho the prospect would have to be a similar calibre in terms of projection. So a top 6 C would be ideal. I'm sure since I'm a fan of him I'm over evaluation his price tag but someone like a Jake Neighbors, Hendrix Lappierre type. Not an elite top prospect but a player who could (hopefully) fill in a top 6 role next season.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If I’m the Rangers, long term I’m thinking Jones-Nils is a nice balanced pairing. The key is both of them shoring up their defense but I think they’ve both shown they know how to defend. Nemeth is the support system for this year, then he settles into the 7D and injury fill-in role.

This pair would get murdered. Any line with a shred of speed and size will eat that pair alive.

I think Jones can be a nice complementary 2nd pair D (where he can be the guy to support a more defensive player in pushing play north) but I don't ever foresee him being a guy who can carry a pair.

Nils will always need to be carried IMO.

 

[will1066]

This pair would get murdered. Any line with a shred of speed and size will eat that pair alive.

I think Jones can be a nice complementary 2nd pair D (where he can be the guy to support a more defensive player in pushing play north) but I don't ever foresee him being a guy who can carry a pair.

Nils will always need to be carried IMO.

I think Jones can carry a pair, just not when it's Lundkvist at this point of Lundkvist's development. Fox is proof that you don't need to be a big N-S dman to carry a pair. Jones has good hockey IQ, kind of in the same mold as Fox. I joked weeks ago that Jones is going to be a lefty Fox. If Jones develops into a 70% lefty version of Fox, I'll be smitten.

 

[Fitzy]

This pair would get murdered. Any line with a shred of speed and size will eat that pair alive.

I think Jones can be a nice complementary 2nd pair D (where he can be the guy to support a more defensive player in pushing play north) but I don't ever foresee him being a guy who can carry a pair.

Nils will always need to be carried IMO.

If you really believe this then you should be advocating trading him as soon as humanly possible.

I agree that pair wouldn't work, but not because either needs to be 'carried', rather, simply that they each would do better partnered with someone whose strengths complements their weaknesses.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

If you really believe this then you should be advocating trading him as soon as humanly possible.

I agree that pair wouldn't work, but not because either needs to be 'carried', rather, simply that they each would do better partnered with someone whose strengths complements their weaknesses.

I do.

 

[RagFinMet]

Nils has played how many games?
Relax
He's a great prospect
Should Jones be here instead? probably
But that's not Nil's fault
With miller improving I'd love to see
Lind fox
Jones tru
Miller nils
I still want to keep nils and schneid long term and dump trouba's salary when his nmc expires

 

[mas0764]

Nils has played how many games?
Relax
He's a great prospect
Should Jones be here instead? probably
But that's not Nil's fault
With miller improving I'd love to see
Lind fox
Jones tru
Miller nils
I still want to keep nils and schneid long term and dump trouba's salary when his nmc expires

Post of the day

Except I'm not sure I'd move KAM away from Trouba right now.

 

[Fitzy]

Lindgren Fox is the pairing that should be split for balancing reasons

 

[duhmetreE]

If I’m the Rangers, long term I’m thinking Jones-Nils is a nice balanced pairing. The key is both of them shoring up their defense but I think they’ve both shown they know how to defend. Nemeth is the support system for this year, then he settles into the 7D and injury fill-in role.

I don't like that pair at all.

Schneider all but locked himself on the roster of this team. Fox and Trouba are irreplaceable at the moment. Nils is the odd man out.

He's a good prospect but we have a better prospect and top NHL RHD. It's unfortunate but hopefully he could return a long term solution in the middle.

 

[huerter]

Lindgren Fox is the pairing that should be split for balancing reasons

If they did that I would faint so I would also have balancing issues.

 

[mas0764]

Possibly, esp with Schneider coming up. Tho the prospect would have to be a similar calibre in terms of projection. So a top 6 C would be ideal. I'm sure since I'm a fan of him I'm over evaluation his price tag but someone like a Jake Neighbors, Hendrix Lappierre type. Not an elite top prospect but a player who could (hopefully) fill in a top 6 role next season.

I would need more than Lapierre to trade Nils.

 

[mas0764]

Nils will always need to be carried IMO.

This is why we can't really trust you on this subject.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

This is why we can't really trust you on this subject.

He lacks some of the most basic fundamentals and if him being a polished guy with a ton of pro experience was a mark for him coming into this season, it should scare the shit out of you that someone with that level of experience looks as deficient in certain areas as he does. If it were just a matter of him getting eaten alive along the walls that would be one thing, but he hasn't shown the ability to defend well at this level or push transition enough to the point where he can utilize the best parts of his game. I don't see that drastically changing for him unless he finds a way to reinvent himself or just magically becomes Adam Fox levels of smart out there.

OTOH, Do you still trust the people who claimed that he was a top 4 caliber guy out of the box and would contend for the Calder?

I think my eval of how he would look out of the blocks was a hell of a lot more accurate.

 

[mas0764]

He lacks some of the most basic fundamentals and if him being a polished guy with a ton of pro experience was a mark for him coming into this season, it should scare the shit out of you that someone with that level of experience looks as deficient in certain areas as he does. If it were just a matter of him getting eaten alive along the walls that would be one thing, but he hasn't shown the ability to defend well at this level or push transition enough to the point where he can utilize the best parts of his game. I don't see that drastically changing for him unless he finds a way to reinvent himself or just magically becomes Adam Fox levels of smart out there.

OTOH, Do you still trust the people who claimed that he was a top 4 caliber guy out of the box and would contend for the Calder?

I think my eval of how he would look out of the blocks was a hell of a lot more accurate.

He is just getting his feet wet here. It's super, super early.

Even setting aside my level of enthusiasm about him (though I certainly never, ever said he'd contend for the Calder, but I did claim he was one of the best defensive prospects outside the NHL, behind guys like Seider and Sanderson but ahead of say, Broberg or Ty Smith), there shouldn't be anything you are seeing right now that would make you believe "he'll always need to be carried," anymore than there was any reason to believe Kaapo Kakko was a bust after a horrific entire first season.

I don't know what fundamentals you think he's lacking. I'm not getting the sense from others that he's woefully deficient; more that its a surprise he isn't quite as NHL ready as originally thought. He's struggled and the gaffes have been obvious, but I think people are fixating on those gaffes rather than the totality of his performance, which again, he's better than Nemeth has been on the whole.

People were shitting all over K'Andre Miller last year too, the difference with him was he started out well and then quickly hit a wall, bad (and he got to play with Trouba, not Nemeth). Nils didn't shoot out of the gates but otherwise I suspect their performances probably stack up similarly.

Maybe Jones or Schneider would be better, but I'm also not gonna assume that preseason performance settles the issue.

 

[surlysailor]

I would need more than Lapierre to trade Nils.

Oh yeah for sure, I'm just saying it has to be someone w/top 6 potential, and I doubt NYR & Wash would ever do a deal like that but he would be at minimum the type of prospect. That being said I still think he is our best option going forward between him, Schneider & Jones.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

He is just getting his feet wet here. It's super, super early.

Even setting aside my level of enthusiasm about him (though I certainly never, ever said he'd contend for the Calder, but I did claim he was one of the best defensive prospects outside the NHL, behind guys like Seider and Sanderson but ahead of say, Broberg or Ty Smith), there shouldn't be anything you are seeing right now that would make you believe "he'll always need to be carried," anymore than there was any reason to believe Kaapo Kakko was a bust after a horrific entire first season.

I don't know what fundamentals you think he's lacking. I'm not getting the sense from others that he's woefully deficient; more that its a surprise he isn't quite as NHL ready as originally thought. He's struggled and the gaffes have been obvious, but I think people are fixating on those gaffes rather than the totality of his performance, which again, he's better than Nemeth has been on the whole.

People were shitting all over K'Andre Miller last year too, the difference with him was he started out well and then quickly hit a wall, bad (and he got to play with Trouba, not Nemeth). Nils didn't shoot out of the gates but otherwise I suspect their performances probably stack up similarly.

Maybe Jones or Schneider would be better, but I'm also not gonna assume that preseason performance settles the issue.

You can't really compare Miller and Kakko to Nils.

Miller was (and really still is) a RAW player a full year younger than Nils is now coming out of NCAA hockey and was thrust into a top 4 role almost immediately (way sooner than he should have been.) Even through his struggles, you would see stretches of some pretty ridiculous shit where you knew there could be a special player there one day. Remember when he locked up Crosby and Barzal early in the season?

Kakko was a full 3 years younger and actually looked pretty good until the gas tank ran out in December. You and I are on the same page about Quinn and his check list for young forwards.

Regardless, Nils, while being the older and much more experienced player has lagged behind both of them. There have been almost no signs of anything remotely good in his play and hes struggled in pretty much every area. Hes been horrible against the rush, hes been owned along the walls, hes been a minus when it comes to facilitating anything that resembles a clean breakout coming out of his own end, he skates into useless ice and pins himself in a corner way more than any player should, regardless of experience. If he were just getting eaten alive along the walls but graded out okay everywhere else that would be one thing, but he's been as bad if not worse in some of those areas. Some of these things should be there out of the box.

He tries hard and the few times where hes been able to get into the offensive zone, hes done a pretty good job supporting the forecheck - but thats really were the positives stop for him, and he's rarely in the offensive zone because neither him (or Nemeth) have done a good job keeping play out of their own end. Theres no reason why Tinordi should ever be playing over him, but he is not the best option for this team right now. Jones looked WAY better during his cup of coffee last year and while he may also have some of the same struggles, he won't have all of them.

 

[Rempe73]

I would need more than Lapierre to trade Nils.

What’s wrong with Lapierre?

 

[nyr2k2]

You can't really compare Miller and Kakko to Nils.

Miller was (and really still is) a RAW player a full year younger than Nils is now coming out of NCAA hockey and was thrust into a top 4 role almost immediately (way sooner than he should have been.) Even through his struggles, you would see stretches of some pretty ridiculous shit where you knew there could be a special player there one day. Remember when he locked up Crosby and Barzal early in the season?

Kakko was a full 3 years younger and actually looked pretty good until the gas tank ran out in December. You and I are on the same page about Quinn and his check list for young forwards.

Regardless, Nils, while being the older and much more experienced player has lagged behind both of them. There have been almost no signs of anything remotely good in his play and hes struggled in pretty much every area. Hes been horrible against the rush, hes been owned along the walls, hes been a minus when it comes to facilitating anything that resembles a clean breakout coming out of his own end, he skates into useless ice and pins himself in a corner way more than any player should, regardless of experience. If he were just getting eaten alive along the walls but graded out okay everywhere else that would be one thing, but he's been as bad if not worse in some of those areas. Some of these things should be there out of the box.

He tries hard and the few times where hes been able to get into the offensive zone, hes done a pretty good job supporting the forecheck - but thats really were the positives stop for him, and he's rarely in the offensive zone because neither him (or Nemeth) have done a good job keeping play out of their own end. Theres no reason why Tinordi should ever be playing over him, but he is not the best option for this team right now. Jones looked WAY better during his cup of coffee last year and while he may also have some of the same struggles, he won't have all of them.

I agree with you completely. I will default to my "it's early" and "he's young" mantras with Lundkvist even though I know that in no way serves as a counterpoint to anything you've said.

 

[will1066]

Smaller ice surface means the need for quicker decisions. Forecheckers are going to be on top of you much quicker and you need to move it, move it. Not thinking at NHL speed.

 

[romba]

Smaller ice surface means the need for quicker decisions. Forecheckers are going to be on top of you much quicker and you need to move it, move it. Not thinking at NHL speed.

Being shifty and deceptive in tight spaces is also crucial for smaller guys like him. Guys close FAST and hard in the NHL and you can use that momentum against them to buy time and space if you're smart. It takes time though.

 

[OrlandK]

Gallant will never play Jones and Nils together. He just does not believe in playing two small relatively non-physical dmen together.

Nils is definitely struggling with the transition but one must assume, given his skill-set and past success, that he will figure it out and get there. Not clear though that the best likely 3rd pair will include Nils however.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I agree with you completely. I will default to my "it's early" and "he's young" mantras with Lundkvist even though I know that in no way serves as a counterpoint to anything you've said.

Both of these things are true and I'd expect some level of improvement across the board over time.

The question is how much? Like even if he improves to league average ish in most of the areas he's struggled, thats still a run of the mill bottom pairing defenseman.