Player Discussion: Nikita Kucherov - Part 3

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

If Hedman had kept up his 2020ish form for a long, long time, he could have climbed pretty high in the all time ranks, IMO. He had like 3 years where he was unquestionably the best defenseman, maybe 4?

Kucherov's consistency is just kind of unreal though. Like, an "off" year for him is about 100 points these days. So I can see the argument for Hedman, but to me it seems like the odds are good that in 10 years, Kucherov is gonna separate himself.

I just think we are in a great, great era for players. The only player who's clearly better than Kucherov is arguably a Gretzky-tier player. I think when it's all said and done Kucherov will be viewed somewhere around Jagr's level. Maybe a bit below, but the same tier. To me, he's above the Sakics, Forsbergs, Yzermans, etc. That's not something I say lightly.

I agree with just about all of this. The only question that bounces off my head is where Kucherov would be if he played center too like McDavid. He's doing this with a wall to his back most of the time. I don't think it's crazy to think that he will challenge for McDavid's 150 point season at some point or could bag 100 assists. He's 27 away from 100 assists with that many games left.

Doing that as a winger is nearly inconceivable to me

 

[DFC]

I agree with just about all of this. The only question that bounces off my head is where Kucherov would be if he played center too like McDavid. He's doing this with a wall to his back most of the time. I don't think it's crazy to think that he will challenge for McDavid's 150 point season at some point or could bag 100 assists. He's 27 away from 100 assists with that many games left.

Doing that as a winger is nearly inconceivable to me

I think there are only 16 games left. Kuch could challenge his career high though. For assists I mean.

 

[AlwaysSunnyInTampa]

I think there are only 16 games left. Kuch could challenge his career high though. For assists I mean.

.......

I can't do math

 

[Zwui21]

He will be a top 3 wing of all time at the rate he's going. Mentioned in the same breath as Jagr and Ovechkin and more renowned than the likes of Robatille and Kurri

If he wasn't playing for a market like Tampa but in a canadian market, he'd already be in that category. Makes me angry to see what Kuch has accomplished year after year after year, and yet most fans (and hockey writers, that are supposed to know the game ouside big markets as well) don't recognize his greatness.

Had Matthews done what Kuch has done in the past 5 years, he'd be regarded as the GOAT of the modern era alongside McDavid.

 

[Zwui21]

If he doesn't win the Hart this season, that trophy doesn't mean shit.

MacKinnon is having a fantastic season as well, but this season nobody is more important to his team than Kucherov to Tampa. Not even remotely close.

 

[Bob and 200 others]

If he doesn't win the Hart this season, that trophy doesn't mean shit.

MacKinnon is having a fantastic season as well, but this season nobody is more important to his team than Kucherov to Tampa. Not even remotely close.

As I posted on the mains if Kuch wins the AR it should be his in any normal year. Most points in the league on a clearly worse team than his closest competitor. Unfortunately it seems the media is hellbent on making the Hart a lifetime achievement award this year.

 

[Bartleby]

If he wasn't playing for a market like Tampa but in a canadian market, he'd already be in that category. Makes me angry to see what Kuch has accomplished year after year after year, and yet most fans (and hockey writers, that are supposed to know the game ouside big markets as well) don't recognize his greatness.

Had Matthews done what Kuch has done in the past 5 years, he'd be regarded as the GOAT of the modern era alongside McDavid.

Well, if he wasn't playing in a market like TPA we wouldn't be talking about him other than to say how much we hate his (amazing) guts.

Viva la lack of reconocimiento!

(Btw, I don't really buy the whole lack of recognition thing - Kuch is well recognized as the phenomenon that he is, even in Canada.)

 

[LightningStrikes]

Why does everybody (outside of Tampa) keep saying the Hart is MacKinnon’s if the scoring stays as it is? He’s a center sure but why is that considered an automatic tie breaker? Kuch is involved in almost half our goals and arguably the main (sole?) reason we’re in a playoff spot right now. Maybe I’m missing something?

 

[OffBy1]

Kuch is involved in almost half our goals and arguably the main (sole?) reason we’re in a playoff spot

Yeah, but did you see his all star skills competition performance?

 

[VinikToWinIt]

As I posted on the mains if Kuch wins the AR it should be his in any normal year. Most points in the league on a clearly worse team than his closest competitor. Unfortunately it seems the media is hellbent on making the Hart a lifetime achievement award this year.

In the last 10 seasons, the Art Ross winner has won the Hart 7 times.

The exceptions:

1. 2015 - Carey Price wins over Art Ross winner Jamie Benn in a historically low year for scoring, while Price dominated.
2. 2018 - Taylor Hall wins with 93 points against McDavid with 108. Hall leads the next scorer on his team by a whopping 41 points, drags his mediocre team to the playoffs in a wildcard spot.
3. 2022 - Matthews puts up 60 goals for the first time in a decade, wins the Hart with 106 points to McDavid's 123.

This year, Mackinnon seems to be the consensus pick despite (at the moment):

• Fewer points
• 1 more goal
• Leading Colorado's 2nd scorer by 24 points, to Kucherov's 43(!) point lead
• Playing on a team 1 point behind 1st in the conference, while Kucherov is on a wildcard team

Seems the media has been telegraphing this one, and Kucherov is bound to get screwed this year against precedent unless he can finish the scoring race well above MacKinnon.

Make it make sense.

 

[Bob and 200 others]

Make it make sense.

Like I said, it's likely to be given as a lifetime achievement award this year. I didn't say it makes sense though, it obviously does not. No. 1 Bullshit!

 

[Stammertime91]

The Canadian factor adds about 15 points to MacKinnons total.

 

[DFC]

The Canadian factor adds about 15 points to MacKinnons total.

The actual case against Kucherov.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

kucherov is a floaty euro who doesn't play the game the "right way", has beaten multiple Canadian teams in the playoffs who "had a legit shot at the cup", decided to receive elective surgery later in the off season than he needed to in order to cheat the cap and then somehow also didn't come back from the same surgery that he "took too late" soon enough when he was clearly 100% healthy in the regular season, didn't play in macd's playground hard enough which was geared toward speed and agility obstacles like it was planned only to benefit the media muppet that designed it, and always looks upset about scoring instead of looking like a big dumb Canadian doofus after ever goal/assist.

oh, and he plays in tampa. did i miss anything?

 

[DFC]

kucherov is a floaty euro who doesn't play the game the "right way", has beaten multiple Canadian teams in the playoffs who "had a legit shot at the cup", decided to receive elective surgery later in the off season than he needed to in order to cheat the cap and then somehow also didn't come back from the same surgery that he "took too late" soon enough when he was clearly 100% healthy in the regular season, didn't play in macd's playground hard enough which was geared toward speed and agility obstacles like it was planned only to benefit the media muppet that designed it, and always looks upset about scoring instead of looking like a big dumb Canadian doofus after ever goal/assist.

oh, and he plays in tampa. did i miss anything?

That time he insulted Montreal.

 

[OffBy1]

We just need to will him to finish with the most points so they are forced to give him the Art Ross. I hope Coop plays him 25 minutes a night.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

The writers have already decided who they’re voting for sadly.

 

[Rschmitz]

Look at all of the shafts on awards Lightning players have gotten over the years and it should be fairly obvious what they all have in common.

 

[ccman68]

the argument against kucherov is his defense which could make sense except for the fact that not once in the history of the award have they taken any kind of defense into account.

 

[OffBy1]

the argument against kucherov is his defense which could make sense except for the fact that not once in the history of the award have they taken any kind of defense into account.

FWIW Kuch leads forwards on his team with 51 take aways (2.09 per 60) while Nathan "Hart" McKinnon has only 35 (1.33 per 60), trailing Miles Wood on his own team.

 

[Bozo Nicholson]

Look at all of the shafts on awards Lightning players have gotten over the years and it should be fairly obvious what they all have in common.

Awards shall be reserved for sweet Canadian princes.

 

[Stammertime91]

kucherov is a floaty euro who doesn't play the game the "right way", has beaten multiple Canadian teams in the playoffs who "had a legit shot at the cup", decided to receive elective surgery later in the off season than he needed to in order to cheat the cap and then somehow also didn't come back from the same surgery that he "took too late" soon enough when he was clearly 100% healthy in the regular season, didn't play in macd's playground hard enough which was geared toward speed and agility obstacles like it was planned only to benefit the media muppet that designed it, and always looks upset about scoring instead of looking like a big dumb Canadian doofus after ever goal/assist.

oh, and he plays in tampa. did i miss anything?

Taxes

Look at all of the shafts on awards Lightning players have gotten over the years and it should be fairly obvious what they all have in common.

Cooper never winning an Adams and the snub of Vasy for Fleury was another. Hedman won't even be a finalist yet for others, point production wins you the trophy.

I'll have a hard time believing the Hart means anything other than citizenship and points if Kucherov doesn't win it this year. If MacKinnons team was rough or having a down year, I'd say 50/50. They aren't. We ran how many games with a backup? Underperforming guys everywhere yet Kucherov has an absurd gap over Point. It's a crock of shit by "journalists" writing this narrative like twenty games ago. Kucherov has been most valuable to his team and its not really a contest, even though media wants to make it one and give it to someone else.

 

[Renopucker]

Last time I checked, “MVP” meant most valuable player. Not the fastest, most demonstrative, etc etc. Anybody that says 86 is not the Lightning’s/ NHL MVP is smoking Canadian crack

 

[Rschmitz]

Mackinnon has a very overt and flashy playstyle, while Kucherov is very covert and cerebral. This alone gives him a massive uphill battle, yet alone all of the non-hockey related baggage that he's sure to be penalized for.

Kucherov is going to have to leave no doubt in the point race, and then even still I have my doubts

 

[Renopucker]

The MVP to McD or MacK is a foregone conclusion. Of course,the Leafers will feel duly dissed that 34 is not in the equation. So, the Ross it is for 86. And know what, I don’t give a crap about the stuff that is the result of a “vote”.