Nikita Kucherov is the clear favorite for the Art Ross Trophy

[Montreal Shadow]

Mack has one game left. Kucherov has two.

MacK has only one game left though while Kuch has two. It’s Nikita’s race to lose now.

Whelp, then Kucherov got this unless MacK pulls off an 8pts Eberle performance.

 

[The Panther]

Regardless of what happens in the final game or two, I still think:
-- Art Ross = Kuch
-- Hart = Mac

I will say, though, that while MacKinnon's Hart chances looked pretty secure a week ago, Colorado's recent dry spell isn't helping his last-minute case with swing voters. So, we'll see how it shakes down.

I just think the NHL media sort of "owes" MacKinnon something major. If he doesn't win the Hart this year, he's sort of the Brad Park of the current era.

 

[Signupnow]

Kucherov got leaf and sabres ahead.

Regardless of what happens in the final game or two, I still think:
-- Art Ross = Kuch
-- Hart = Mac

I will say, though, that while MacKinnon's Hart chances looked pretty secure a week ago, Colorado's recent dry spell isn't helping his last-minute case with swing voters. So, we'll see how it shakes down.

I just think the NHL media sort of "owes" MacKinnon something major. If he doesn't win the Hart this year, he's sort of the Brad Park of the current era.

How can someone be owed something they never earnt?

 

[The Panther]

Kucherov got leaf and sabres ahead.

How can someone be owed something they never earnt?

Well, that's why I wrote "owed", using the word in a particular context.

Of course, if you want to be pedantic about it, no, they don't actually owe him anything. But what I'm saying is, I think the "sympathy vote" (if you will) goes to MacKinnon. This may affect enough swing voters to go MacKinnon's way, at least according to my theory.

 

[Anemia]

Whelp, then Kucherov got this unless MacK pulls off an 8pts Eberle performance.

I think you mean Gagner.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

All of this talk of Mack being "owed" or "due" for a Hart trophy is quite sad. I think he's the type that would be pissed to win the trophy with that sort of sentiment. I'd think he'd want to feel like he earned it but I don't think he has this year.

 

[Beukeboom]

Art + Hart = Kuch, Lindsay = Mackinnon, Rocket + Selke = Matthews...everyone's happy but the McDavid fans, (but they can handle it given Connor's past accomplishments)

 

[TheStatican]

All of this talk of Mack being "owed" or "due" for a Hart trophy is quite sad. I think he's the type that would be pissed to win the trophy with that sort of sentiment. I'd think he'd want to feel like he earned it but I don't think he has this year.

How hasn't he "earned" it? Lmao, you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

If anyone hasn't earned the Hart it it's Kuch, he's been pilled on the cheap, meaningless and easy to get points like a fat kid in a candy store, especially late in the season when his chances to clinch the scoring title were in doubt. 12 of his NHL record 14 EN points have come in the last 3 months(33 games) and 9 in the last 2 months(22 games). What a coincidence!!! 6 of those while his team was already up by 2 goals, wow so valuable!

 

[TheStatican]

Let's do a simple and straightforward comparison between the two: how about we identify whose totals have been propped up the most by more easily attainable points, and who has consistently delivered crucial points that actually secured victories in closely contested games, where the outcome remained uncertain, embodying the very essence of an MVP.


MacKinnon - cheap easy points or meaningless points; 9
November 15 - assist late in third while up 7 to 2
November 22 - EN assist while up by 2
November 27 - EN assist while up by 2
December 17 - EN goal while up by 3
December 21 - EN goal
January 20 - EN goal while up by 2
February 13 - EN assist
February 20 - EN assist
March 30 - EN goal while up by 2

As for Mac's important late game winning or tying point total... It was FourTEEN with 9 game winners;
November 9 - Assisted on late game tying goal
November 30 - Scored game trying goal late in third
December 11 - Scored game winning goal late in third
December 21 - Assisted on late game winning goal
January 2 - Assisted on late game tying goal, then in OT...
January 2 - Scored the OT winner
January 4 - Scored the OT winner
January 13 - Scored game winning goal late in third completing the 0-3 comeback
February 18 - Assisted on late game winning goal
March 8 - Assisted on OT winner
March 13 - Assisted on OT winner
March 16 - Assisted on OT winner
March 24 - Scored game trying goal late in third, then in OT...
March 24 - Assisted on OT winner completing the 0-4 comeback


meanwhile...
Kucherov - cheap easy points or meaningless points; 16
October 10 - EN goal 2 seconds left
November 24 - assist late in the third while up 7 to 2
Dec 28 - EN assist with 7 seconds left while up by 2
January 23 - EN goal with 11 seconds left while up by 2
January 27 - EN assist
February 10 - EN assist
February 24 - EN assist
February 25 - EN goal while up by 2
February 27 - assist late in third while down 1 to 9
March 14 - EN goal while up by 2
March 16 - EN goal
March 27 - EN goal
March 29 - EN goal
March 30 - EN assist while up by 2
April 4 - EN assist while up by 2
April 9 - EN assist while up by 2

And here's the exhaustive list of Kucherov's important late game winning or tying points; FOUR. With points in just 2 game winners;
November 20 - Assisted on late game tying goal
December 9 - Assisted on OT winner
January 11 - Scored the OT winner
March 23 - Assisted on late game tying goal


While Mac's been piling up the game winners the last couple of months, Kuch has been piling up the empty netters. #86 anit touching the Hart.

 

[Stammertime91]

Kucherov has 141 points:

- East Coast bias
- too many secondary assists
- powerplay points
- empty net points

Now we can add "too many cheap and meaningless points" as defined by *checks notes* an online forum poster. By game 82, Kucherov will have 3 points left to his name that were scored legitimately with both skate laces even, a passing grade smile on his face, and in a specific time frame of affordable and meaningful points.

Kewl.

"#86 ain't touching the Hart"

He already did years ago when MacK couldn't get out of round one or break 100 points.

 

[TheStatican]

Kucherov has 141 points:

- East Coast bias
- too many secondary assists
- powerplay points
- empty net points

Now we can add "too many cheap and meaningless points" as defined by *checks notes* an online forum poster. By game 82, Kucherov will have 3 points left to his name that were scored legitimately with both skate laces even, a passing grade smile on his face, and in a specific time frame of affordable and meaningful points.

Kewl.

"#86 ain't touching the Hart"

He already did years ago when MacK was couldn't get out of round one or break 100 points.

What part of scoring substantially more crucial points that secured victories in closely contested games where the outcome was uncertain, did you miss?

Oh, ALL of it I see.

 

[Acallabeth]

And here's the exhaustive list of Kucherov's important late game winning or tying points; FOUR. With points in just 2 game winners;
November 20 - Assisted on late game tying goal
December 9 - Assisted on OT winner
January 11 - Scored the OT winner
March 23 - Assisted on late game tying goal


While Mac's been piling up the game winners the last couple of months, Kuch has been piling up the empty netters. #86 anit touching the Hart.

I'm sorry to be blunt, buddy, but this is either a blatant lie or some extremely arbitrary criteria you used trying to elevate one player over another.

I only checked TBL April game (didn't bother to go further ahead as the point was obvious) and here's what actually happened:

April 2 vs DRW: assist on the game-tying goal in the 3rd (2-2, Tampa eventually lost).
April 4 vs TML: assist on go-ahead goals #1 and #2 (eventual GWG), also on the 4th goal to put it away in the 3rd.
April 5 vs MTL: assist on the 1st game-tying goal (Tampa eventually won).
April 6 vs PIT: assist on the 1st, 3rd and 4th Tampa comeback goals, including game-tying goal (Tampa eventually lost).
April 10 vs CBJ: assists on go-ahead goal #1 and game-tying goal to make it a 2-2 game (Tampa eventually won).
April 12 vs OTT: assists on game-tying goal to make it a 1-1 game and a go-ahead goal after that (Tampa eventually won).

Your idea coudn't be further from the truth, Kucherov has literally scored important points in close environment every game this month alone.

 

[Stammertime91]

What part of scoring substantially more crucial points that secured victories in closely contested games where the outcome was uncertain, did you miss?

Oh, ALL of it I see.

Did it ever occur to you that a point is a point and that because it happens earlier in a game a player might not need to produce late in game? Jesus Christ the logic here just gets worse by the day.

And apparently you missed ALL of it because the poster above exposed whatever point you were attempting, poorly, to prove. That is embarrassing.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

I'm sorry to be blunt, buddy, but this is either a blatant lie or some extremely arbitrary criteria you used trying to elevate one player over another.

I only checked TBL April game (didn't bother to go further ahead as the point was obvious) and here's what actually happened:

April 2 vs DRW: assist on the game-tying goal in the 3rd (2-2, Tampa eventually lost).
April 4 vs TML: assist on go-ahead goals #1 and #2 (eventual GWG), also on the 4th goal to put it away in the 3rd.
April 5 vs MTL: assist on the 1st game-tying goal (Tampa eventually won).
April 6 vs PIT: assist on the 1st, 3rd and 4th Tampa comeback goals, including game-tying goal (Tampa eventually lost).
April 10 vs CBJ: assists on go-ahead goal #1 and game-tying goal to make it a 2-2 game (Tampa eventually won).
April 12 vs OTT: assists on game-tying goal to make it a 1-1 game and a go-ahead goal after that (Tampa eventually won).

Your idea coudn't be further from the truth, Kucherov has literally scored important points in close environment every game this month alone.

Lmao. Dunked that guy

 

[The Macho King]

I'm sorry to be blunt, buddy, but this is either a blatant lie or some extremely arbitrary criteria you used trying to elevate one player over another.

I only checked TBL April game (didn't bother to go further ahead as the point was obvious) and here's what actually happened:

April 2 vs DRW: assist on the game-tying goal in the 3rd (2-2, Tampa eventually lost).
April 4 vs TML: assist on go-ahead goals #1 and #2 (eventual GWG), also on the 4th goal to put it away in the 3rd.
April 5 vs MTL: assist on the 1st game-tying goal (Tampa eventually won).
April 6 vs PIT: assist on the 1st, 3rd and 4th Tampa comeback goals, including game-tying goal (Tampa eventually lost).
April 10 vs CBJ: assists on go-ahead goal #1 and game-tying goal to make it a 2-2 game (Tampa eventually won).
April 12 vs OTT: assists on game-tying goal to make it a 1-1 game and a go-ahead goal after that (Tampa eventually won).

Your idea coudn't be further from the truth, Kucherov has literally scored important points in close environment every game this month alone.

Kucherov scores on literally half of Tampa Bay's offense. So unless half of the goals are worthless he's full of shit.

But by bolding it, it gives it a whiff of respectability.

 

[Stammertime91]

I'm waiting to see his response.

I mean,

I'm WAITING to see ALL of his game log notes in his response.

 

[RussianGuyovich]

I'm waiting to see his response.

I mean,

I'm WAITING to see ALL of his game log notes in his response.

I can’t wait to not read it!

 

[daver]

To be fair, MacKinnon's game is more flashy which could sway Hart voters.

Kucherov is just as effective; sometimes it looks like he even isn't trying:

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Well, that's why I wrote "owed", using the word in a particular context.

Of course, if you want to be pedantic about it, no, they don't actually owe him anything. But what I'm saying is, I think the "sympathy vote" (if you will) goes to MacKinnon. This may affect enough swing voters to go MacKinnon's way, at least according to my theory.

I agree.

Nobody is 'owed' any award, but these media voters are f***ing stupid. They gave a Norris to an old and washed up Lidstrom over a obviously much better Weber as a retirement sendoff.

The Hart Trophy has become a farce trophy over the years. It's a narrative trophy from the media writers who don't actually watch many of the games.


There's no science to it. There's no stats to back anything up. It's the "most popular story about a players impact" award.


And from that vantage point, MacK is "owed" one because he's been an elite player for so long and this is the first non-McDavid year they could give it to him, knowing full well he likely won't get it next year.



You can't quantify what "most valuable to their team" means. It could mean the best player on a top team, or the best player on a middling team that got dragged into the playoffs.

 

[NatusVincere]

Some days old but regarding “cheap easy points” just a reminder:

 

[bobholly39]

Regardless of what happens in the final game or two, I still think:
-- Art Ross = Kuch
-- Hart = Mac

I will say, though, that while MacKinnon's Hart chances looked pretty secure a week ago, Colorado's recent dry spell isn't helping his last-minute case with swing voters. So, we'll see how it shakes down.

I just think the NHL media sort of "owes" MacKinnon something major. If he doesn't win the Hart this year, he's sort of the Brad Park of the current era.

I hate everytime I read this, because this is mostly based on 2018 and MacKinnon finishing 2nd in hart. And I maintain, Kucherov had a more compelling case to the hart in 2018 too, and he should have won then too.

I like both players fine - and I would have been fine with MacKinnon winning hart this year if he had beaten Kucherov in scoring race, but it's looking more and more like Kucherov will finish ahead, and with a bit of a gap too. To me - that should seal the deal in Kucherov's favor, and land him the hart too.

 

[bobholly39]

Let's do a simple and straightforward comparison between the two: how about we identify whose totals have been propped up the most by more easily attainable points, and who has consistently delivered crucial points that actually secured victories in closely contested games, where the outcome remained uncertain, embodying the very essence of an MVP.


MacKinnon - cheap easy points or meaningless points; 9
November 15 - assist late in third while up 7 to 2
November 22 - EN assist while up by 2
November 27 - EN assist while up by 2
December 17 - EN goal while up by 3
December 21 - EN goal
January 20 - EN goal while up by 2
February 13 - EN assist
February 20 - EN assist
March 30 - EN goal while up by 2

As for Mac's important late game winning or tying point total... It was FourTEEN with 9 game winners;
November 9 - Assisted on late game tying goal
November 30 - Scored game trying goal late in third
December 11 - Scored game winning goal late in third
December 21 - Assisted on late game winning goal
January 2 - Assisted on late game tying goal, then in OT...
January 2 - Scored the OT winner
January 4 - Scored the OT winner
January 13 - Scored game winning goal late in third completing the 0-3 comeback
February 18 - Assisted on late game winning goal
March 8 - Assisted on OT winner
March 13 - Assisted on OT winner
March 16 - Assisted on OT winner
March 24 - Scored game trying goal late in third, then in OT...
March 24 - Assisted on OT winner completing the 0-4 comeback


meanwhile...
Kucherov - cheap easy points or meaningless points; 16
October 10 - EN goal 2 seconds left
November 24 - assist late in the third while up 7 to 2
Dec 28 - EN assist with 7 seconds left while up by 2
January 23 - EN goal with 11 seconds left while up by 2
January 27 - EN assist
February 10 - EN assist
February 24 - EN assist
February 25 - EN goal while up by 2
February 27 - assist late in third while down 1 to 9
March 14 - EN goal while up by 2
March 16 - EN goal
March 27 - EN goal
March 29 - EN goal
March 30 - EN assist while up by 2
April 4 - EN assist while up by 2
April 9 - EN assist while up by 2

And here's the exhaustive list of Kucherov's important late game winning or tying points; FOUR. With points in just 2 game winners;
November 20 - Assisted on late game tying goal
December 9 - Assisted on OT winner
January 11 - Scored the OT winner
March 23 - Assisted on late game tying goal


While Mac's been piling up the game winners the last couple of months, Kuch has been piling up the empty netters. #86 anit touching the Hart.

To steal an above's poster picture:

MacKinnon - can't compete in tough games/vs tough opponents, but racks up points against weaker opponents.

Kucherov - is a beast, the tougher the opponent the better his performance, ie allowing his team to compete/win in games where they'd have no chance without him.

Narratives are fun.

Kucherov will win the Ross and should win the Hart too. He's simply had the better season.

 

[Acallabeth]

Some days old but regarding “cheap easy points” just a reminder:

I'm not really a fan of distinction between scoring vs bad and good teams (as it's natural that good teams defend better and good players are required to score against bad teams more), but this is absurd. #MVP

 

[gritdash60]

Narratives are fun.

Kucherov will win the Ross and should win the Hart too. He's simply had the better season.

Surely if you just count the point totals, Matthews is going to hit the 70mark, which 8 players in the history of the league have done and to me he has to win the Hart with that as well. A lot of people will disagree just based on the Leafs hatred, which i somehow dont have despite being a Wings fan, but i dont care if its 69 or 70 or more, Matthews is the Hart winner for me and its not even close.

On another note; can we just respect what an insane time it is to be a hockey fan? These guys are setting the bar for Art Ross trophy at 140points or more, how insanely good do you have to be to score 140points in the best league in the world???

 

[bobholly39]

Surely if you just count the point totals, Matthews is going to hit the 70mark, which 8 players in the history of the league have done and to me he has to win the Hart with that as well. A lot of people will disagree just based on the Leafs hatred, which i somehow dont have despite being a Wings fan, but i dont care if its 69 or 70 or more, Matthews is the Hart winner for me and its not even close.

On another note; can we just respect what an insane time it is to be a hockey fan? These guys are setting the bar for Art Ross trophy at 140points or more, how insanely good do you have to be to score 140points in the best league in the world???

I had been pushing for Matthews for Hart back in february during one of his hot streaks. Back then I said, for him to have a legitimate chance at the hart, a few things would have to happen:

1. He'd have to push for closer to 75+ goals than 70 (he was on pace for ~79-80 at the time)
2. He'd have to push for 115 points (he'll come close, but fall a bit short)
3. The top 3 (Kuch/Mack/McDavid) would have to fall off pace slightly, and land at around ~130 points, vs 140+ points, so the gap wasn't as big

None of those things happened.

Yes it is an insane time to be a hockey fan, and it's been a fantastic season all around by the absolute best players in the game. But with close to a 40 point gap behind Kucherov, in my opinion there's absolutely no way Matthews will, nor should win the Hart. He might displace McDavid at #3 as a finalist though, especially with McDavid missing a few more games at end now.